Emerging Rafael Threat on Horizon vs JF17 THUNDER

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

The real fight will be at the EW domain!!! And, Pak has got the advantage here!!! Remember, Rafael after all is a standard commercial product sold to many customers!! Hence, they can be worked out!!! Now, Pak's job is to "debug" and "decipher" it....

 

[monitor]

View attachment 582002



RAFALE

Hardpoints: 14 for Air Force versions (Rafale B/C), 13 for Navy version (Rafale M) with a
capacity of 9,500 kg (20,900 lb) external fuel and ordnance and provisions to carry weapons

Avionics

• Thales RBE2-AA AESA radar
• Thales SPECTRA Electronic Warfare system.
• Thales/SAGEM-OSF Optronique Secteur Frontal infra-red search and track (IRST) system

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


JF17 Block III
Hardpoints: 7 in total (4 × under-wing, 2 × wing-tip, 1 × under-fuselage)(Based on block 1 info)
Useful load: 4,325 kg (9,535 lb) (Based on block 1 info)


Avionics

• KLJ-7 V2 Airborne Pulse Doppler Fire Control Radar
• Externally mounted avionics pods
  • AselPOD EO/IR Targeting System
• KG300G Airborne Self-Protection Jamming Pod

It appears the Rafale Jet is capable of carrying more missiles (double) what JF17 can carry and also Spectra Electronic warfare system would add new threat

comparing JF-17 a light combat aircraft with a medium weight class fighter is not worthy of comparison any ways.only advantages or features that can nearly matches Rafale with JF-17 is both can have AESA radar , except that Rafale triumph in every category .
Pakistan should have plan how to counter 72 Rafale coming to Indian inventory eventually . As new aircraft buying is not an option getting F-16 upgraded to V standard , getting more second hand F-16 from anywhere and upgrade is the only viable option . beside this Pakistan can get train their Pilot with J-10C so that if situation demand Pakistan can use Chinese J-10C in combat .
For new aircraft customize J-31 according to Pakistani needs can a option before project AZM complete .

 

[Signalian]

On 26 feb JF-17 failed to fired BVR on IAF intruders.... Again on 27 feb JF-17 failed to fire SD-10 on IAF interceptors....

Is that entirely true

Your issue is 7 hard points vs 14
Now with asea jf17 can see further and shoot first. Which bird would u rather be in now?

Turing on AESA has its disadvantages also, such as getting detected by IAF AWACS or ground radars with much more powerful transmitters than aircraft's radars.

what would you do then ?

The real fight will be at the EW domain!!! And, Pak has got the advantage here!!! Remember, Rafael after all is a standard commercial product sold to many customers!! Hence, they can be worked out!!! Now, Pak's job is to "debug" and "decipher" it....

Yes, one of the most sensible post in this thread. The EW part.

IN THEORY :
1 Euro Fight would cost around 80 Million to 90 Million Dollars 13-14 hardpoints
For the same money, we could have 4 JF17 Thunders 24 hardpoints combined

Ok and what if PAF uses a commercial airplane or C-130, puts a high powered massive sized AESA radar in its nose with 400 km range, places a big jammer on its top, installs 24 hard points on its wings with PL-15 and flies it in Pakistan's air space as a missile truck to fire salvos of PL-15's at incoming IAF aircrafts.

Its not just about hard points in the air or is it.

 

[Sinnerman108]

Qibla,

App to Sukhoi la rahe the PAF mein,
Aaj kal general / analyst khel rahe ho !

View attachment 582002



RAFALE

Hardpoints: 14 for Air Force versions (Rafale B/C), 13 for Navy version (Rafale M) with a
capacity of 9,500 kg (20,900 lb) external fuel and ordnance and provisions to carry weapons

Avionics

• Thales RBE2-AA AESA radar
• Thales SPECTRA Electronic Warfare system.
• Thales/SAGEM-OSF Optronique Secteur Frontal infra-red search and track (IRST) system

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


JF17 Block III
Hardpoints: 7 in total (4 × under-wing, 2 × wing-tip, 1 × under-fuselage)(Based on block 1 info)
Useful load: 4,325 kg (9,535 lb) (Based on block 1 info)


Avionics

• KLJ-7 V2 Airborne Pulse Doppler Fire Control Radar
• Externally mounted avionics pods
  • AselPOD EO/IR Targeting System
• KG300G Airborne Self-Protection Jamming Pod

It appears the Rafale Jet is capable of carrying more missiles (double) what JF17 can carry and also Spectra Electronic warfare system would add new threat

 

[Signalian]

View attachment 582002



RAFALE

Hardpoints: 14 for Air Force versions (Rafale B/C), 13 for Navy version (Rafale M) with a
capacity of 9,500 kg (20,900 lb) external fuel and ordnance and provisions to carry weapons

Avionics

• Thales RBE2-AA AESA radar
• Thales SPECTRA Electronic Warfare system.
• Thales/SAGEM-OSF Optronique Secteur Frontal infra-red search and track (IRST) system

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


JF17 Block III
Hardpoints: 7 in total (4 × under-wing, 2 × wing-tip, 1 × under-fuselage)(Based on block 1 info)
Useful load: 4,325 kg (9,535 lb) (Based on block 1 info)


Avionics

• KLJ-7 V2 Airborne Pulse Doppler Fire Control Radar
• Externally mounted avionics pods
  • AselPOD EO/IR Targeting System
• KG300G Airborne Self-Protection Jamming Pod

It appears the Rafale Jet is capable of carrying more missiles (double) what JF17 can carry and also Spectra Electronic warfare system would add new threat

If i can request you to do a different kind of analysis:

Can you please tell me what will happen if in first 2 days of war, there were 2 air combat incidents solely between JF-17 and Rafale plus AWACS from both sides.
In first incident, Rafale shoots down 4 x JF-17s while JF17 shoots down 1 x Rafale
In the second incident, Rafale shoots down 2 x JF-17s while JF-17 shoots down 2 X Rafales.
Thats a loss of total 6 X JF-17 and 3 X Rafale in two days.

Will PAF continue sending JF-17 into combat ? Will IAF send Rafale in combat again ? Will such stats affect psyche of pilots on both sides ? will there be any change of tactics employed by PAF and IAF ?

Your thoughts ?

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well difficult to say, what would be an outcome of JF17 Thunder vs Rafale in real battle
Pakistani airforce pilots already have shown what they can do

Perhaps if the Twin seat JF17 Block 2B was inducted in larger number may be the numerical figures would look normal

The production figures of Thunders is 100% somewhat behind schedule

 

[Itachi]

Ahmed Shah Masood of NA was one of the best fighters against the Soviets. The Panjshir valley occupied entire Soviet Divisions but still failed to subdue Masood Mujihadeen. Stop using broad brush and lumping everybody on one swoop.

Lemme a little secret on to you. Slappig the prefix "Islamic" does not grow you talleer, stronger, mightier. The athiests Chinese could chew every Muslim country on earth and spit us out without care. The 180 Muslims in India have about as much backbone as fluterring leaf. Religion is poor predictor of anything. If you study countries and history you will see religion has little correlation to success or power. Those are contingent on so many other mundane and temporal factors.

How do you explain backwater 7th century Arabs defeating the Byzantines & the Sassanids??

How do you explain pushback against the Mongols by the Mamluks? The rise of the Ottomons from a single tribe of less than a 100 people to a global empire?

The poor, illiterate, back stabbed Afghans fighting USA + NATO??

If not belief in Islam, its prophet and its God??

You reek of stupidity when you say "religion has little correlation to success or power". I would like you to say that in front of Abu Bakar, Umar or Khalid Bin Waleed R.A. if you ever got to face them in the hereafter...

Religion is the number one thing differentiating humans from animals (atheists, satanists, pagans etc). Believe it or not.

Do you see any flourishing pagan country?? Satanist country?? Official atheist country??

You remember the collapse of the Soviet Union when it pushed back against Islam?

The Truth is there for everyone to be seen, if you wish to ignore it, too bad for you.

 

[Signalian]

View attachment 582114



Considering the present scenario, it is clear we are missing 1 Fighter Jet

Just a different opinion - Don't you think that PAF gets the job done by flying lesser types of aircraft ?
PAF (4) Vs IAF (7)

Isn't that more cost effective and efficient ?

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well the single Engine aspect of our Airforce is tied to cost control 100%
Would not state that the planes are lesser in any form I am sure Pakistan Airforce has lined up necessary strategies

I feel our JF17 Production figures are a bit behind, we should have had 150-175 jets by 2015

But as we know, things slowed down due to Block III being planned and not finished, and engine work remaining up in the air

Also considering we did not get our planned 18 - F16, in Obama's last political term so it skewed the figures a bit

The news of the arrival of JF17 Block 2B into Mix certainly livens up the situation

 

[Imran Khan]

dont we see on 27feb these things are nothing but fan club chit chat ?

 

[Rupeshkumar]

i think we should go for eurofighter or gripen on tot basis with manufacturing of components in Pakistan to lower costs

TOT of eurofighter would probably cost 10 years of your defence budget , if you are able to get all associated parties agree on this...

 

[Signalian]

Also considering we did not get our planned 18 - F16, in Obama's last political term so it skewed the figures a bit

And PAF F-16 crashes (8 A + 1 B) were not replaced, so 9 x F-16s still short.

 

[SSG_Commando]

Well difficult to say, what would be an outcome of JF17 Thunder vs Rafale in real battle
Pakistani airforce pilots already have shown what they can do


View attachment 582116


Perhaps if the Twin seat JF17 Block 2B was inducted in larger number may be the numerical figures would look normal

The production figures of Thunders is 100% somewhat behind schedule

IAF operates 2 squadrons of Mig-27 and it I am pretty sure it is vintage aircraft. The only thing substantive are SU-30s, Mirage 2000 and Rafale or somewhat Mig-21 bisons. All others are crap.

 

[Signalian]

I feel our JF17 Production figures are a bit behind, we should have had 150-175 jets by 2015

How does that affect the scenario, apart from that maybe all F-7 P/PG would have been retired and PAF would be flying 3 types of fighters. Quality is still essential since JF-17 will always provide quantity.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Yes addition of those 18 F16 Birds would have been a welcomed sign , which were approved but later due to financial constraints we had to back out

Well I would imagine , we can only retire something once we have a replacement inducted in Airforce

Presently I feel

> F16 Program is behind by 25 planes so we have odd 100 F16 in fleet
> JF17 Program is behind by 50 Units we are still waiting for Block III to finish
> JF17 2B is behind by 30 Units, no unit inducted yet

It all adds up in end because of it we can't retire F7PG jets