Egyptian Armed Forces

[The SC]

New one

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By the time they finish testing the aircrafts, the AESA radar will be ready too..

 

[Frogman]

How so? AIM-7 (depending on which variant) has a max. range of between 32km and 50km. MICA IR/ER have a max. range of 50KM. The latter has fire and forget and might have slightly better target acquisition capabilities from the RB-2E and it's homing and seekers might be a little better, but as far as range, it's not a great improvement, really.

The stated range of a missile is a bit of a red herring. It would only ever do that against a non-maneuverable target flying at a consistent altitude while being fired from a higher altitude. Basically a slow dumb front flying target drone.

I stole this because it's more articulate than I ever could be on this subject. Credit to hornetfinn on f16.net.

For example we have a generic A/A missile with max flight range of 100km when launched at near Mach 1 at above 30,000ft. Most such missiles have a rocket engine that provides thrust for about 10 seconds and have a top speed of Mach 4. They also need a few seconds to reach that top speed and then after very short sustained thrust/speed period start to slow down. Having lofted profile provides additional range due to higher altitudes having lower air resistance and thus deceleration is slower. Of course higher altitude also provides potential energy which can be transformed to kinetic energy (altitude to speed) to some extent. If we do some very rough (there might well be errors here) calculations, we see that at at launch the missile speed is Mach 1 at high altitude. Let's say it takes 4 seconds to achieve Mach 4 and that is sustained for 6 seconds. So the missile will travel about 12 km before it starts to slow down. At max flight range the missile will become subsonic and will quickly stall as it will not have enough speed to maintain controlled flight. So if we assume the deceleration is linear (which it isn't, but that gets complicated quickly), the missile would slow down to Mach 3 about 40 km from launch point and to Mach 2 about 70 km from launch point. Of course this assumes the best possible flight profile as any maneuvering by the missile will eat speed and thus range quickly. Of course it also shows that 40 km away the missile will have only about half the kinetic energy it has when the rocket stops burning. At 70 km away the kinetic energy is 4 times smaller. This means the missile will have far less ability to maneuver to catch the target. For example the published range figures for some surface to air missiles indicate that their effective range against maneuvering fighter targets is less than half the range they can catch slow and non-maneuvering targets. Of course when launched at lower altitude the missile has to overcome much higher air resistance and the top speed will be lower and deceleration of the missile much higher. The effective range can be several times smaller than the effective range during high altitude launch.

Of course it's also easy to calculate what the max theoretical ranges are for receding but non-maneuvering targets. Against target flying at Mach 0.5 the effective range with the above missile would be less than 80 km. Against target flying at Mach 1.0 it would be less than 60 km. Against target flying at Mach 2, it would be less than 30 km. Of course if the target maneuvers even slightly, those figures start falling rapidly. Same is true if the target is higher than the shooter.

Of course the max range figures can also be for a max launch range against incoming non-maneuvering target. In that case the missile with 100 km max range might well have only 50-60 km flight range. That means the effective range against bypassing target might be only about 30-40 km and against receding fighter target only about 20-30km. Against low altitude fast receding target which changes direction, the max range might be less than 5 km. So a 100 km missile can't suddenly catch a target the pilot can see with his eyes. Max range figures are pretty meaningless unless specific launch conditions have also been expressed.

So far there hasn't been a missile that can touch a fighter out that far. The MICA is a very good missile which focuses on maneuverability first and foremost. It will be the best AAM in the inventory for quite some time even if the AIM-120 and R77 are introduced. Plus the MICA NG and Meteor are right around the corner.

Chinese? With the MiGs already a done deal, seems like a better option to stick with the same source. I think any others are just way too far in their infantile stage.

Honestly, anything but Russian or Chinese at this point. Would much rather be involved in a project than take something that doesn't cut it.

 

[The SC]

Honestly, anything but Russian or Chinese at this point. Would much rather be involved in a project than take something that doesn't cut it.

The only other "existing" project for a 5th generation fighter is the The Turkish TF-X, and you know that the relationship between Turkey and Egypt went sour after the removal of the MB government..
So, there is no other practical choice than Russia or China..

 

[Frogman]

The only other "existing" project for a 5th generation fighter is the The Turkish TF-X

Not quite true. The Indians are independently developing the HAL AMCA. The Japanese already have a flying a testbed of the X-2. Last but not least the South Koreans and Indonesians are working on the KAI-KFX.

There are options. Question is whether the EAF want to make anything of them.

 

[The SC]

Not quite true. The Indians are independently developing the HAL AMCA. The Japanese already have a flying a testbed of the X-2. Last but not least the South Koreans and Indonesians are working on the KAI-KFX.

There are options. Question is whether the EAF want to make anything of them.

India is still having problems with a 4th generation Tejas let alone a 5th G..
Good luck for a JV with Japan, they won't even sell a tank engine Turkey, let alone share their advanced technologies..
The KAI-KFX had Turkey in it too, it was shelved and Turkey continued alone.. that is still the only other option available if relations get better somehow a fact I am optimistic about..

 

[Gomig-21]

Mossad will get w/e it needs either way

LOL! Come oooooonnnn, maaaaan! You people and that familiar arrogance never ceases to amaze us!

I don't see why this would threat Egypt anyway.

We don't want your nose in our military business. Would you like it if we went out of our way and had outside nations helping us find out the secrets of your systems? I didn't think so.

And be sure that PAK FA will see israeli sub systems if u're worrying about intelligence gathering.

Not worried about it, just have to be cautious like you people are. There's also ways around that, and a small squadron of 12 would be enough until the next platform of unmanned vehicles becomes the weapon of choice. Rafales also have good potential against 5th gens.

As for local industry, it's up for goverment effort and vision, something Egypt lacks in local industry in my opinion.
but it can be made.

There, I agree with you.

We saw a picture of a pilot kissing the Mig-21 goodbye.. When are we going to see the welcome kiss for the Mig-35?

Chinese F-7. Despite it's beauty and being the replica of the sport's car definition of a fighter in the Soviet MiG-21 F-13, it's also known by many who operate it as the "Flying Coffin"! :-(

 

[MICA]

By the time they finish testing the aircrafts, the AESA radar will be ready too..

With russia don't be too ambitious they said they got aesa radar since 2007 for the mig but all of us know now this isn't true.

Plus there is already Doppler radars ordered for us

 

[MICA]

 

[DavidSling]

LOL! Come oooooonnnn, maaaaan! You people and that familiar arrogance never ceases to amaze us!



We don't want your nose in our military business. Would you like it if we went out of our way and had outside nations helping us find out the secrets of your systems? I didn't think so.

Not worried about it, just have to be cautious like you people are. There's also ways around that, and a small squadron of 12 would be enough until the next platform of unmanned vehicles becomes the weapon of choice. Rafales also have good potential against 5th gens.



There, I agree with you.



Chinese F-7. Despite it's beauty and being the replica of the sport's car definition of a fighter in the Soviet MiG-21 F-13, it's also known by many who operate it as the "Flying Coffin"!

We can disagree on few stuff, but everybody spy on everybody, I won't be surprise if Egypt would spy on Israel too.
There's always a way around it, but how will you know if u don't even know the machine.
Most of the chances that it won't be even us, it'll be the russians.
Rafales are 4.5 gen fighters, comparing it with fifth gen isn't wise.

 

[MICA]

Rafales are 4.5 gen fighters, comparing it with fifth gen isn't wise.

He isn't comparing , he is saying that rafale got the capability at least to defend itself against 5th gen fighters

 

[masud]

Gyes i want to see egypts missile system , as like atgm, mlrs etc.............

 

[EgyptianAmerican]

You should make a separate thread for Police.

 

[The SC]

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With russia don't be too ambitious they said they got aesa radar since 2007 for the mig but all of us know now this isn't true.

Plus there is already Doppler radars ordered for us

Any sources about the Doppler radar being ordered? I can't find any.. and even if it is true, it is a very good mechanical radar, but AESA is simply the best to have nowadays..

 

[Gomig-21]

Mi-8M and some more Egyptian Ka-52 testing and the assembly line.

 

[HannibalBarca]

KA-52 EGY