Egyptian Armed Forces

[Gomig-21]

The Spanish Navy Helicopter carrier Juan Carlos & the Blas de Lezo frigate in a Joint drill with the Egyptian Navy Mistral and a number of Egyptian Navy vessels pictured here before heading to Ras El Tin Naval Base in Alexandria today. The Juan Carlos is considerably larger than the Egyptian Mistral.

 

[The SC]

The Spanish Navy Helicopter carrier Juan Carlos & the Blas de Lezo frigate in a Joint drill with the Egyptian Navy Mistral and a number of Egyptian Navy vessels pictured here before heading to Ras El Tin Naval Base in Alexandria today. The Juan Carlos is considerably larger than the Egyptian Mistral.

The Spaniards wanted to show the capabilities of their warships to the Egyptian Navy after a tour in India..Their F-100 frigate with AEGIS is something very good to consider.. the Juan Carlos has the capability to launch Sea Harriers and F-35B.. So by signing the Sismoa.. who knows what is in the pipeline for the future..

 

[The SC]

 

[Gomig-21]

- Would this answer your question?
"Egypt also manufactured the decoding and encryption cards of the new system in the Ben Ha Electronic Industries company"
There were also some other sensors before Block-52..

Mmmm...kinda does answer the question but I think we need to see more. We need to see some common antenna-like or sensors that are on all the different aircraft, going all the way back to the vaunted halawa in the MiG-21, the Mirages, the F-4E Phantoms, all 200+ F-16s and now we have the new aircraft in the MiG-35s and Rafales, so it would be even easier to spot a dedicated IFF sensor on either of those two aircraft but we haven't yet.

I mean, am I wrong to think there should be visible sensors in order to have an interrogating IFF system which means it's a fully fledged and operating IFF?

The Spaniards wanted to show the capabilities of their warships to the Egyptian Navy after a tour in India..Their F-100 frigate with AEGIS is something very good to consider.. the Juan Carlos has the capability to launch Sea Harriers and F-35B.. So by signing the Sismoa.. who knows what is in the pipeline for the future..

Indeed. I was thinking about this whole timing with the signing of the CISMOA now that the F-16 has pretty much reached it full extent in the Egyptian Air Force and at the same time, we had the debacle with the SCALP denial. Put those two together and you know the US is somewhat concerned about Egypt going back to Russia for 46 Ka-52s and 50 MiG-35 and the S-300VM when Egypt is the 3rd highest recipient of military aid from the US. Look at the big deal a bunch of senators are making about Turkey's F-35s because of the S-400. That being said, IMO, the CISMOA was to assure the US that we will abide by all the rules of non-transferring of US-made tech to 3rd parties (especially Russia) and at the same time, it will ease the restriction on the SCALP to be transferred through the French to complete the order for the Rafales. That's my take on that part.

The other part of this whole thing is where is Egypt going for more fighters now? ATM, it's on the hook for roughly 86 new jets; 36 Rafales and 50 MiG-35s but we know quite well that aside from the block 40's and 52s in the F-16 fleet, the other older ones will be seeing bedtime rather soon and will need replacement. So essentially, the EAF really needs to purchase 100 more fighters to compensate for the retiring F-16 and to be able to sustain a decent and effective air force.

What are the choices as of now? I don't think the French will be able to offer additional Rafales (not because they don't want to or that we can't afford them,) but it's just that they're going to be extremely busy pumping out Qatar's order and especially India's which is more likely to push their order up to a total of 70+.

That leaves us with what?
- 36 more Rafales F4? Maybe, probably not.
- 24 F-15s? I doubt it with our screaming neighbors next door but this is the caliber aircraft we now must be looking at acquiring. No more medium size fighters but large fighters of the F-15/Su-30/35 caliber and range. This only makes sense with the power projection the Egyptian Navy is undergoing (which I will get to that in a minute) and so we very much need long range, heavy payload fighters. If the F-15's chances are slim to none, then what else is really left? I think the answer is pretty simple. We should up the MiG-35 numbers to reach a total of 100, so 50 more of those with the new AESA radar would be ok and then...
- 50 Su-35S. I have finally come around to your thinking, there, ma brother, SC. Because of the circumstances that have taken place in the last year and a half, I think the best choice for the EAF now is the Su-35S for that large, long range and heavy payload and super maneuverable fighter to add to the EAF fleet that would complement the MiG-35s very nicely and work on the other side of the F-16s and Rafales. This is also very critical in opening the door for 5th generation ambitions. I think in our case, there really is only 1, viable choice and working with more MiG-35s and Su-35s, it will only make that part of the process that much easier. What do all you guys think of this?

Going back to the point about the power projection the Egyptian Navy is amassing with its fleet and to your point about the Spanish exercise, I think @Frogman was onto something when he mentioned that there is a strong tendency for the Egyptian carriers to keep performing with the French and Spaniards in order to better understand the nuances and better ways of seamanship in the LHD/carrier level. We saw a very clear indication of that with that one picture that @Vergennes posted of the French LHD and the Egyptian one cruising through the Suez Canal and the Egyptian one was being escorted with a pair of tugs while the French one wasn't. All part of the learning process which seems to be what is going on with these exercises we're seeing on a constant basis.

This is also very exciting news.

The Egyptian Navy has issued an international tender to obtain 4 new frigates, negotiations still ongoing with both Thyssenkrupp Marine Systems (The negotiations expected to be on MKS-180 Frigates) and Naval Group.

MKS-180 Frigate. 4 of these would be incredible to add to the FREMMs, although another 4 FREMMs would be just as sweet. We'll need to breakdown the differences to decide which is better for sure.

https://www.handelsblatt.com/untern...ml?ticket=ST-1131930-BKzEb7MfbPpNdUlPI52b-ap6

 

[The SC]

Mmmm...kinda does answer the question but I think we need to see more. We need to see some common antenna-like or sensors that are on all the different aircraft, going all the way back to the vaunted halawa in the MiG-21, the Mirages, the F-4E Phantoms, all 200+ F-16s and now we have the new aircraft in the MiG-35s and Rafales, so it would be even easier to spot a dedicated IFF sensor on either of those two aircraft but we haven't yet.

I mean, am I wrong to think there should be visible sensors in order to have an interrogating IFF system which means it's a fully fledged and operating IFF?



Indeed. I was thinking about this whole timing with the signing of the CISMOA now that the F-16 has pretty much reached it full extent in the Egyptian Air Force and at the same time, we had the debacle with the SCALP denial. Put those two together and you know the US is somewhat concerned about Egypt going back to Russia for 46 Ka-52s and 50 MiG-35 and the S-300VM when Egypt is the 3rd highest recipient of military aid from the US. Look at the big deal a bunch of senators are making about Turkey's F-35s because of the S-400. That being said, IMO, the CISMOA was to assure the US that we will abide by all the rules of non-transferring of US-made tech to 3rd parties (especially Russia) and at the same time, it will ease the restriction on the SCALP to be transferred through the French to complete the order for the Rafales. That's my take on that part.

The other part of this whole thing is where is Egypt going for more fighters now? ATM, it's on the hook for roughly 86 new jets; 36 Rafales and 50 MiG-35s but we know quite well that aside from the block 40's and 52s in the F-16 fleet, the other older ones will be seeing bedtime rather soon and will need replacement. So essentially, the EAF really needs to purchase 100 more fighters to compensate for the retiring F-16 and to be able to sustain a decent and effective air force.

What are the choices as of now? I don't think the French will be able to offer additional Rafales (not because they don't want to or that we can't afford them,) but it's just that they're going to be extremely busy pumping out Qatar's order and especially India's which is more likely to push their order up to a total of 70+.

That leaves us with what?
- 36 more Rafales F4? Maybe, probably not.
- 24 F-15s? I doubt it with our screaming neighbors next door but this is the caliber aircraft we now must be looking at acquiring. No more medium size fighters but large fighters of the F-15/Su-30/35 caliber and range. This only makes sense with the power projection the Egyptian Navy is undergoing (which I will get to that in a minute) and so we very much need long range, heavy payload fighters. If the F-15's chances are slim to none, then what else is really left? I think the answer is pretty simple. We should up the MiG-35 numbers to reach a total of 100, so 50 more of those with the new AESA radar would be ok and then...
- 50 Su-35S. I have finally come around to your thinking, there, ma brother, SC. Because of the circumstances that have taken place in the last year and a half, I think the best choice for the EAF now is the Su-35S for that large, long range and heavy payload and super maneuverable fighter to add to the EAF fleet that would complement the MiG-35s very nicely and work on the other side of the F-16s and Rafales. This is also very critical in opening the door for 5th generation ambitions. I think in our case, there really is only 1, viable choice and working with more MiG-35s and Su-35s, it will only make that part of the process that much easier. What do all you guys think of this?

Going back to the point about the power projection the Egyptian Navy is amassing with its fleet and to your point about the Spanish exercise, I think @Frogman was onto something when he mentioned that there is a strong tendency for the Egyptian carriers to keep performing with the French and Spaniards in order to better understand the nuances and better ways of seamanship in the LHD/carrier level. We saw a very clear indication of that with that one picture that @Vergennes posted of the French LHD and the Egyptian one cruising through the Suez Canal and the Egyptian one was being escorted with a pair of tugs while the French one wasn't. All part of the learning process which seems to be what is going on with these exercises we're seeing on a constant basis.

This is also very exciting news.

The Egyptian Navy has issued an international tender to obtain 4 new frigates, negotiations still ongoing with both Thyssenkrupp Marine Systems (The negotiations expected to be on MKS-180 Frigates) and Naval Group.

MKS-180 Frigate. 4 of these would be incredible to add to the FREMMs, although another 4 FREMMs would be just as sweet. We'll need to breakdown the differences to decide which is better for sure.

https://www.handelsblatt.com/untern...ml?ticket=ST-1131930-BKzEb7MfbPpNdUlPI52b-ap6

Nice and comprehensive post as usual ya M'alem..

- For the IFF, the antennas as you already know..can be very tiny today and also they can be fitted inside.. take a look at the new cars antennas compared to those I meter long ones.. and we are talking just low tech in this instance.. I am quite confident that Egypt has the interrogating systems needed for all its fighter planes.. since you can't have a whole and complete IFF system without the required sensor..

- Well. there is some crying about those deals with Russia in the congress.. and it is quite out of place.. because Egypt needed to replace its old systems.. mostly air and sea ones.. and the US didn't help.. there was no other choice.. but now with the Sismoa signed and sealed.. we should expect at least an upgrade of some Old F-16s to viper or at least some SEP with AESA radars and potent missiles.. some F-15s would be very welcome, but that is another story altogether! I think you have nailed it with increasing the numbers of the MIG-35s and getting a good number of the big brothers SU-35s, while keeping an eye on the Pak-FA.. regardless of what will or will not come from the US.. the Egyptian armed forces should be well balanced between Western and Eastern systems and tech..Another 24 Rafales will be fine for now.. and the least the US can do is release those Scalp parts to Egypt.. It should be a good sign for what is to come from that side.. Hopefully other good weapons and missiles previously held because of Sismoa not being signed.. now those congressmen can go cry rivers..

- I have heard about the MKS-180 Frigates.. they look good on paper! but Germany has a problem with them, now it became political as some Germans are criticising the government for not going ahead with the project yet.. Knowing that it is a race between them and the French.. but by all means.. the French Fremms should win, if for nothing, it is for the fact that the Fremm is operational, tested and one of the most advanced Frigates out there.. I am glad Egypt went for an international tender..because others should not be excluded, I am mostly thinking about South Korea, China, Russia, Spain and even the US.. but one has to think on how to keep the navy more independent from the US.. it is quite difficult.. apart from the Chinese and Russian options..all the others use US components.. and here comes to the rescue.. the famous Sismoa again..so let's hope for the best..

 

[Gomig-21]

Photos of Egyptian-Spanish bilateral naval exercise
► Juan Carlos I (L61) LHD
► Blas de Lezo (F103) F-100 frigate
► Gamal Abdel Nasser (L1010) Mistral LHD
► El Fateh (971) Gowind corvette
► El Suez (F946) Descubierta corvette
► Ambassador MK III missile boat

Spaniards brought their Harriers to the exercise, one can be seen here on the Juan Carlos.

Spanish Sea King on the Fateh's landing platform.

Looks like the Spanish company Navantia Maritime industries is pushing for the Egyptian frigate tender.
The Spanish Blas de Lezo.

 

[The SC]

Photos of Egyptian-Spanish bilateral naval exercise
► Juan Carlos I (L61) LHD
► Blas de Lezo (F103) F-100 frigate
► Gamal Abdel Nasser (L1010) Mistral LHD
► El Fateh (971) Gowind corvette
► El Suez (F946) Descubierta corvette
► Ambassador MK III missile boat

Spaniards brought their Harriers to the exercise, one can be seen here on the Juan Carlos.

Spanish Sea King on the Fateh's landing platform.

Looks like the Spanish company Navantia Maritime industries is pushing for the Egyptian frigate tender.
The Spanish Blas de Lezo.

The F100 Alvaro de Bazan Class is a 5,800t multipurpose frigate built by the Spanish shipbuilder, Izar (formerly E.N. Bazan). In February 2005, the naval shipbuilding activities of Izar were spun off into a new company, Navantia.
The first batch of four ships was ordered by the Spanish Navy in January 1997. The first, Alvaro de Bazan (F101), was launched in October 2000 and commissioned in September 2002. The second, Almirante Juan de Borbon (F102), was launched in February 2002 and commissioned in December 2003.
The third, Blas de Lezo (F103) was launched in May 2003 and commissioned in December 2004. The fourth, Mendez Nunez (F104), was launched in November 2004 and delivered in March 2006.
In June 2005, the Spanish Government announced plans to procure a fifth Alvaro de Bazan Class vessel, Cristobal Colon (F105). Procurement of the new vessel was authorised by the government in May 2006. Construction began in June 2007 and the keel was laid in February 2009. The ship was launched in November 2010 and entered sea trials in June 2012. A sixth vessel, Juan de Austria (F106) is also planned, to commission in 2013.

Alvaro de Bazan Class Aegis combat system

The ship incorporates the AN/SPY-1D Aegis Combat System from Lockheed Martin Naval Electronics and Surveillance Systems. The main missions of the ship are fleet protection, anti-air warfare, operation as a flag ship for a combat group, anti-surface and anti-submarine warfare.
"The F100 is a 5,800t multipurpose frigate."
In June 2008, Spain requested the foreign military sale (FMS) of Raytheon Tomahawk Block IV land attack missiles to arm the F100 frigates.
Alvaro de Bazan is the first European ship with the Aegis weapon system. In July 2003, Alvaro de Bazan (F101) took part in combined Combat Systems Ship Qualification Trials (CSSQT) with the Aegis Class destroyer USS Mason (DDG 87). A second CSSQT trial took place in September 2004 with Almirante Juan de Borbon (F102) and USS Pinkney (DDG 91). In June 2007, Mendez Nunez (F104) took part in the first tri-nation CSSQT, with Arleigh Burke class destroyer USS Gridley (DDG 101) and the Royal Norwegian Navy frigate Fridtjof Nansen (F310).
In 1994 Spain entered an agreement with Germany and the Netherlands, which provided cooperation in development and in national construction of the frigates. In Spain, Izar built the F100, in the Netherlands, Royal Schelde built the LCF (De Zeven Provincien Class) and in Germany the ARGE 124 group (Blohm and Voss as the leading yard, Howaldtwerke-Deutsche Werft and Thyssen Nordseewerke) built the F124 (Sachsen Class). The agreement covered cooperation on the ship platform and not on the systems.

Aegis combat data system

The Aegis combat data system controls the detection, control and engagement sequence through the AN/SPY-1D radar, the command and decision systems (C&D) and the ship’s weapons control system (WCS). The F100 is the first frigate to be equipped with Aegis.
The ship has satellite communications and Link 11 secure tactical data link.

Weapons systems

The ship has two four-celled Boeing Harpoon anti-ship missile systems. Harpoon is a medium-range missile with a range of 120km, 220kg warhead and active radar terminal guidance. The surface-to-air missile system is the evolved Sea Sparrow missile (ESSM) developed by an international team led by Raytheon.
ESSM has semi-active radar guidance with tail control motor to improve range, speed and manoeuvrability. The medium-range Raytheon standard missile SM-2MR Block IIIA provides area defence. SM-2MR has a range of 70km, a speed of Mach 2.5 and has semi-active radar seeker and an Aegis radio command link. Both ESSM and SM-2MR use the Lockheed Martin Mark 41 vertical launch system.
"The ship has two mk32 double torpedo launchers for mk46 lightweight torpedoes."
The ship is equipped with the BAE Systems, Land & Armaments (formerly United Defense) mk45 mod 2 gun controlled by the DORNA radar / electro-optic fire control system from FABA. DORNA sensors include K-band radar and tracking radar along with an infrared camera, TV and laser rangefinder.
The close-in weapon system (CIWS) is the 20mm Meroka 2B also from FABA. The Meroka CIWS includes infrared camera, video autotracker and is cued by the Aegis radar. Meroka has a range of 2,000m. There are also two 20mm machine guns.
The ship has two mk32 double torpedo launchers for mk46 lightweight torpedoes and also two anti-ship mortars.

Sikorsky Seahawk helicopters

The F100 has a flight deck 26.4m long and will accommodate one helicopter. The Spanish Navy has acquired six new Sikorsky SH-60B LAMPS Mk III Seahawk helicopters.
A programme to upgrade six existing Seahawk helicopters to LAMPS mkIII standard was completed in January 2004. The helicopters are equipped with a FLIR and Hellfire laser-guided air-to-surface missiles and are deployed on the F100 and Santa Maria Class frigates.
Countermeasures suite

The ship’s countermeasures suite includes Aldebaran Electronic Support Measures / Electronic Countermeasures (ESM/ECM) system, from Spain’s Indra Group, four Lockheed Martin Sippican mk36 SRBOC chaff and decoy launchers and the AN/SLQ-25A Nixie acoustic torpedo countermeasures system from Argon ST of Newington, Virginia.
Sensors

The first four F-100 ships are equipped with the Lockheed Martin AN/SPY-1D fixed phased array radar for air and surface search. AN/SPY-1D is a multi-function E/F band, three-dimensional radar which is an essential part of the Aegis system. It provides instantaneous beam steering, target detection, fire control tracks on hundreds of targets, and multiple target kill assessment.
"The main missions of the F100 frigate include fleet protection and anti-air warfare."
The fifth vessel, Cristobal Colon (F105), is fitted with the SPY-1D(V), which includes an upgrade to improve littoral performance. The air-search radar is the three-dimensional TRS and surface-search radar is the G/H band AN/SPS-67(V)3 from DRS technologies.
The hull-mounted sonar is the Raytheon DE1160 LF active and passive sonar. The Sikorsky SH-60 Seahawk helicopter is equipped with AN/SQQ-28 LAMPS III sonobuoys.
CODAG propulsion system

The F100 is equipped with a combined diesel and gas propulsion (CODAG) system with two GE LM 2500 gas turbines providing 34.8MW and two Navantia diesel engines rated 9MW. The shafts drive two controllable pitch propellers.

https://www.naval-technology.com/projects/f100/

Two of these will terrorise many competing navies (and air forces) of the region..
I'll add one Fremm ASW like the existing one..

 

[Gomig-21]

The video from the naval exercise with Spain. Some nice, Spanish harrier action too.
Maybe when they eventually get the F-35 for the Juan Carlos, they'll bring them to these joint naval get-togethers.

 

[The SC]

The video from the naval exercise with Spain. Some nice, Spanish harrier action too.
Maybe when they eventually get the F-35 for the Juan Carlos, they'll bring them to these joint naval get-togethers.

The Spanish F-100 frigates are officially in the bid too..They are a little bit of an older design ..but they have the AEGIS system.. FREMM and the German designs are a bit stealthier.. but the Spanish Frigate is more powerful..

 

[Gomig-21]

The Spanish F-100 frigates are officially in the bid too..They are a little bit of an older design ..but they have the AEGIS system.. FREMM and the German designs are a bit stealthier.. but the Spanish Frigate is more powerful..

It's definitely going to be a tough choice. I think stealth in today's naval designs is a very important aspect, so that should certainly be taken into heavy consideration. Nothing against our Spanish brothers at all and as a matter of fact, we're more than grateful at their offer of ToT and practically moving the entire ship building industry to Egypt, but I would prefer if the Egyptian navy stuck with the FREMM if it can. If not for commonality purposes, then simply because they are such outstanding, state of the art frigates. The only problem with our French brothers lol, is their insistence on removing the ECM and jamming systems on the FREMM that has been delivered and how would they deal with that aspect if any further ships were to be contracted? We don't even know what the Egyptian navy has done to address that vital shortcoming on the current ship. This is a major point of contention because it basically reduces the ships full capabilities by a considerable margin until a substitute is installed. So we have that critical issue to deal with.

Juan Carlos aircraft carrier docked at Ras El Tin naval base in Alexandria. Sweet-looking ship.

Medusa 2018 with our Greek brothers and sisters will be starting on June 25th.

 

[The SC]

It's definitely going to be a tough choice. I think stealth in today's naval designs is a very important aspect, so that should certainly be taken into heavy consideration. Nothing against our Spanish brothers at all and as a matter of fact, we're more than grateful at their offer of ToT and practically moving the entire ship building industry to Egypt, but I would prefer if the Egyptian navy stuck with the FREMM if it can. If not for commonality purposes, then simply because they are such outstanding, state of the art frigates. The only problem with our French brothers lol, is their insistence on removing the ECM and jamming systems on the FREMM that has been delivered and how would they deal with that aspect if any further ships were to be contracted? We don't even know what the Egyptian navy has done to address that vital shortcoming on the current ship. This is a major point of contention because it basically reduces the ships full capabilities by a considerable margin until a substitute is installed. So we have that critical issue to deal with.

Juan Carlos aircraft carrier docked at Ras El Tin naval base in Alexandria. Sweet-looking ship.

Medusa 2018 with our Greek brothers and sisters will be starting on June 25th.

Obviously brother..the Fremm is a very good choice.. and I believe the bid will go to the one who offers more TOT .. the price difference can be managed, but it is all about ToT.. the good news is that the latest 2 Spanish F-100s were recently made in the Netherland and Germany's most famous shipyards.. apart from the Systems that are mostly US made.. so the design might have been updated to a stealthier one..

 

[Nile-Tiger]

Should we expect any firm news about closing the deal for those new frigates in the next few months? May be this year, or in the first half of 2019 ??? We are supposed to have the option of ordering another FREMM, does this mean that we can order more than 4 frigates, if we went with the french ships ? May be 5, or even 6 ?

I also hope that the deal for the additional 12 Rafales and 2 GOWINDs would be closed soon... It would have been really great if the additional number of Rafale would rise to 24, like the initial order, but that's just unrealistic and greedy

SU-35, or another deal for a considerable number of MIG-29M, would be really great too. We also should be thinking about acquiring another 4 Subs, which would probably be Russian, I think. May be in the coming year or two we will hear about new deals with Russia, probably covering most of the armed forces branches.

Also... Still wish that we would get involved in the JF-17 project with China and Pakistan. But I think it's not an easy decision, and may be our leaders think it may not be so rewarding in the end, putting in consideration all the dedication we would be giving to that project, like money and research and facilities. Don't think we'll be hearing anything like this soon.

Can't wait to hear about any new deals, not just for Egypt, but also for the whole Arab world

 

[The SC]

Sorry guys, the Spanish frigate is in the bid.. might be the new F-110 and not the F-100 like stated before..

F-110 (very modern with recent stealth features)

F-100 (An older design) shown in the recent exercises with the Egyptian navy..

 

[Gomig-21]

@The SC , that would be really great if that happens with Spain. That's a beautiful looking ship, especially that radar tower. That design is known for some serious systems in it.

SU-35, or another deal for a considerable number of MIG-29M,

Yeap, I personally thing that's really the best route for Egypt now. Being that the F-16 line has essentially come to an end (not necessarily production-wise, but performance-wise) for us to invest in this aircraft with all the BVR restriction the US puts on them. It's not worth it one iota anymore. We need to seriously consider moving up the ladder with greater performance, payload and munitions and the only thing that is really feasible is the Su-35. This is literally IMO the best choice because of the things I mentioned and it opens the door even more than the MiG-35 procurement towards the Su-57. We'll see what happens. It seems that El Rayis has made nothing but the right decisions since he's become president. In his 4 years as president, he's done 35x more than what Mubarak did in 30 years.

Greece, Cyprus & Egypt to hold exercises in Crete tomorrow.

 

[Gomig-21]

Here's something we rarely see: Egyptian para-rescue unit with their Westland Agusta AW-139s.