Egyptian Armed Forces

[Gomig-21]

The Frenchs always do some sexy looking fighter aircrafts (Mirage 2k and Rafales etc...). My preferred fighters are Rafale Mirage 2K the legendary F-16.

This is the best for me. Coupled with the incredible stories from Egyptian pilots who flew it against the enemy from the early 60's into the late 90s and through 2 wars in that span, not including the skirmish with Libya after they outfited them with AIM-9 sidewinders. Just the look and history of the MiG-21 is awesome. What can I say, I'm old school to go with my age.

And of course, the spinach & sand zebra camo of the late 60s - 80s is the ultimate classic.

A few more EN pics.

Shalatin Type 701E transport & replenishing ship. This is one of 3 old replenishment ships in the EN that supposedly are being replaced with much more modern or new ones. So is the single Westerwaid transport & ammunition ship.

Great shot from above of Anwar El Sadat Mistral!

Yonca ONUK MRTP20 fast attack patrol boats bought from Turkey prior to tensions building up.
I used to have better pics than just this one, like a pair of them close up docked on a navy dock on the Suez Canal and one of the sailors was tying them off to the dock cleats and another covering the gun with the canvas cover etc. Lost the pics somehow.

 

[Indos]

Good question. Not much info out there about start dates of delivery, maybe @The SC knows. But we know it took roughly 4 years for the original 24 to all be delivered. Plus there was a statistic that Dassault builds 1 jet per month but can speed up that process a bit more. Even at 2 a month, that's 24 a year (which isn't bad at all) but they also have Qatar's order of 36 jets, Indonesia's order of 36 also and the UAE for 80 lol! Dassault will be all set for another 2 decades at this rate!

Indonesia just order 6 Rafale. 36 Rafales are part of LOI but in my opinion is unlikely to happen. I see possibility for Rafale Indonesian order is just 6 until 12 planes and the next order in my opinion will likely to take place in new administration (2025-2029) and it would likely Rafale F4 as for 6 planes we bought this year is F3R version. The order will likely take place just to complete the number of plane into 12-16 planes, which is the normal number of planes for 1 squadron in Indonesia.

Many dont understand Indonesian politics and needs. Those 6 Rafale order is just a replacement of previous SU 35 order, it has the same amount of money, 1.1 billion USD, and will be financed with foreign loan.

Jokowi administration is very conservative in relation to defense acquisition, only very essential order will be conducted, like this Rafale F3R for 6 planes since it is intended to fill previous F 5 squadron in Iswahyudi base, Madiun, where all of 12 F 5 planes have already been grounded. The squadron get 3 SU 30 from other squadron in order to keep the squadron alive.

You need to differentiate between our Minister of Defense wants with overall Jokowi administration wants. Unlike Egypt which is governed by Military government, Indonesia is governed by civilian government where economy become very very important part of overall decision making process in doing any government procurement.

Basically our Rafale hasnt been made yet since even the money hasnt been given by our finance minister despite the contract for 6 planes have been signed. I see second semester of 2022 where the money will be given, this is the behavior of our Finance Minister, Sri Mulyani, even for submarine production facility for state owned PT PAL, she gives the money in the end of 2021 despite the program has been agreed since the end of 2020. She should have given the money in early 2021, but she didnt do it despite our budget is very healthy in 2021 and exceed previous expectation that make finance minister issued much less government bond than the previous plan.

 

[Gomig-21]

Indonesia just order 6 Rafale. 36 Rafales are part of LOI but in my opinion is unlikely to happen.

Ah, ok. I thought they went ahead and accepted the tender for all 36.

The order will likely take place just to complete the number of plane into 12-16 planes, which is the normal number of planes for 1 squadron in Indonesia.

Yep, same with the EAF. Despite having close to 400 combat aircraft, they still prefer to have a low number within each squadron, even the 180+ F-16s. I think this was a product influenced by the disaster of 1967, they can spread them out more.

Glad you posted here. You made me think; a couple of weeks ago, I was correcting a member in the J-20 thread about the term "squadrons" when he was referring to them as "regiments". While there is some truth to using that term for labeling air force groups, but it's not really as commonly used as "squadrons" in air forces. I also mentioned that there are usually between 12 and 24 aircraft within a squadron, depending on which country etc. Then he asked me how many aircraft in an EAF squadron, to which I replied '12.' Simple question and simple answer followed by a return question by me; I asked him how many in a Indian IAF squadron since they have a huge number of aircraft, He was obviously from India. I figured it would be at least around 20 per. He said 18 (I think) and we were done, ready to move on BUT then suddenly the moderator from Germany jumped in like some maniac bull in a China shop, high on some type of speed mixed with acid/mushroom or something lolzo......and proceeded to take a full blown nutty, posting some eeeh awwwn donkey dung about if we wanted to discuss the EAF and IAF, to not do it on the J-20 thread!

A couple of lousy, harmless, one-liner posts that were the result of discussing the number of J-20s in a squadron and the correct term for those squadrons! This guy almost had an aneurism, compounded by a heart attack! I couldn't believe the overreaction to something so minor, especially when he added a couple of insulting emojis at the end of his dribble. I tell ya, that guy is a basket case, not to mention VERY poor mod skills & qualities who certainly can't lead by example.

No wonder that thread is almost dead. He should be stripped of that responsibility and it given to YOU, someone who's extremely respected) who's also a think tank who actually knows a lot about military topics which we can't really say the same about the majority of the other TTs around this insane asylum lol. Or someone else like @LeGenD for example, (now there's a respectable moderator) who's firm but fair and level-headed like you, not insanely psychotic and disrespectful.

But you came to mind first from this civilized and informative discussion. I couldn't imagine having such a sane, respectable dialogue with that other crazed & disrespectful individual.

Anyway, anyone following this thread know what is terribly wrong in this photo? When I first saw it a while back, I was extremely disappointed to see the 2 terrible things that are completely wrong in basic military. Let's see how fast anyone can point them out.

@Indos ,
The Su-30s in the MAF are also in a relatively low number like you mentioned and I wanted to ask you, was it the same reason (we really don't know this for sure. but it seems pretty obvious as the EAF quite possibly having cancelled its order of 30-40 Su-35s because they're going to purchase F-15 EXs instead? The US has possibly approved up to 40 F-15 EXs for the EAF, but I'm 100% positive it would never give or sell old or brand new F-15s to any country, regardless of its close ties, while they were also purchasing the veritable Su-35S. Is that the same story or is it strictly because of the 6 Rafales ordered instead, like you mentioned?

 

[Indos]

@Indos ,
The Su-30s in the MAF are also in a relatively low number like you mentioned and I wanted to ask you, was it the same reason (we really don't know this for sure. but it seems pretty obvious as the EAF quite possibly having cancelled its order of 30-40 Su-35s because they're going to purchase F-15 EXs instead? The US has possibly approved up to 40 F-15 EXs for the EAF, but I'm 100% positive it would never give or sell old or brand new F-15s to any country, regardless of its close ties, while they were also purchasing the veritable Su-35S. Is that the same story or is it strictly because of the 6 Rafales ordered instead, like you mentioned?

MAF ? Do you mean Marocco Air Force ? Since there are Malaysian AF and Myanmar AF as well and many more with initial "M"

We have 16 SU 27/30 and typical squadron we have has 16 fighters in it. Those 3 SU 30 for former F 5 squadron is only in the form of lending the planes from their main squadron in Sulawesi island (Celebes) to mentioned squadron, in order to keep F 5 squadron in East Java alive before new planes (Rafale F3R) arrive.

I see the cancellation of previous SU35 order ( contract has been signed but not yet effective-no down payment yet ) is due to Russian behavior, as US, I believe, has informed secretly nations that close to them about possible Russian invasion on Ukraine in 2021. The timing is exactly the same with the intelligence gathering in US saying about Russian invasion plan which has been already known since middle of 2021.

US will give new F15 EX to Indonesia, the code name is F 15 ID, and the approval is given just after Indonesia contract on 6 Rafale F 3R in early 2022. I see USA doesnt want to be seen as less partner to Indonesia than France in term of offering their capable fighters. France has had another program with Indonesia during the France Defense Minister visit, including possible Scorpene order with the manufacturing done in Indonesia's PT PAL, but concrete conctrac hasnt been signed, something that I see as respond of Australian recent deal with US and Britain that kick out previous France submarine deal with Aussie.

Regarding to possible F 15 EX acquisition for Indonesia. I doubt we are going to buy F 15 EX as I said earlier that our current administration is very economic oriented and prefer to disburse subsidy than to increase weapon acquisition. Their previous deal with Russia with SU35 order for 11 planes had also shown this tendency. At that time Prabowo hasnt become our defense minister. The contenders were F16 Block 70 and SU 35, the reason SU 35 is picked is mainly due to payment will be made in barter over half of the total amount of contract ( economic reason and preference on Indonesia's own product ).

This administration (Jokowi as the center of power), as I see, is also very pro of local industry. It can be easily seen in their first term administration defense procurement realization ( 2014-2019). I also see them ( particularly Jokowi, Planning Minister, SOE Minister, and Finance Minister) prefer KF21 program and keep ordering Rafale at very minimum order ( 6 at the mean time ), contrast with their own Defense Minister, Prabowo Subianto.

Once again to clear many misconception that I see in many international medias with lack of deep of Indonesian politics knowledge, It is wrong to see Prabowo statement as our administration statemen, what he said is not necessarily alligned with Jokowi main team policy within Jokowi administration. Dont forget, Prabowo was a previous contender of our President Election in both 2014 and 2019 Presidential elections and has become Jokowi rival for at least 5 years.

 

[ARCH٤R]

Don’t you think more warfare related courses should be provided in civil Egyptian universities? Perhaps they must also be well connected to the Military and its industry?
I’m devastated by the lack of courses that would make Engineers capable of conceptualizing military vehicles and weapons...

 

[Hydration]

Don’t you think more warfare related courses should be provided in civil Egyptian universities? Perhaps they must also be well connected to the Military and its industry?
I’m devastated by the lack of courses that would make Engineers capable of conceptualizing military vehicles and weapons...

My uncle was picked by the military from alexandria universty for his outstanding marks in engineering. The offer was handed to him but he refused to join the military because he didnt want the life style. It wouldve been way better for him than what he is in now. Theres such a small minority who would love working for the military they are notrious for not giving any valuable reward equal to the work youve done since sadat's era

 

[Ghostkiller]

It's YPR-765/AIFV, very common IFV in Egyptian army. They were purchased in late 90s from Netherlands (YPR-765) and Belgium (AIFV).
View attachment 830620.

It looks like that Egyptian army begin to distribute Maadi polymer Rifle to the soldier (the soldier behind the turret)

 

[Gomig-21]

MAF ? Do you mean Marocco Air Force ?

No, come on! lol Of course I was referring to the Malaysian Air Force and just used the acronyms to refer to it lol. Why would I ever bring in the Moroccan air force, my brother LOL?!

Regarding to possible F 15 EX acquisition for Indonesia. I doubt we are going to buy F 15 EX as I said earlier that our current administration is very economic oriented and prefer to disburse subsidy than to increase weapon acquisition.

I think the EX is really the base design for all future F-15s, whether they be for Qatar, Indonesia or Egypt. If the Egyptian ones come through, they're probably label them as F-15EG or something like that but underneath all the labels, it will be an EX model with possibly a few certain features custom tailored for and at the EAF's request. This same is probably going to be done for Indonesia and was done for Qatar. Not sure about the Saudi S model, but my guess is that it also is pretty close to the EX.

Besides being a very handsome aircraft with the camo scheme (looks a bit familiar, don't it? lol)...

---it seems identical to the EX even when you check out all the avionics and built-in systems etc.

We have 16 SU 27/30 and typical squadron we have has 16 fighters in it. Those 3 SU 30 for former F 5 squadron is only in the form of lending the planes from their main squadron in Sulawesi island (Celebes) to mentioned squadron, in order to keep F 5 squadron in East Java alive before new planes (Rafale F3R) arrive.

I see the cancellation of previous SU35 order ( contract has been signed but not yet effective-no down payment yet ) is due to Russian behavior, as US, I believe, has informed secretly nations that close to them about possible Russian invasion on Ukraine in 2021. The timing is exactly the same with the intelligence gathering in US saying about Russian invasion plan which has been already known since middle of 2021.

US will give new F15 EX to Indonesia, the code name is F 15 ID, and the approval is given just after Indonesia contract on 6 Rafale F 3R in early 2022. I see USA doesnt want to be seen as less partner to Indonesia than France in term of offering their capable fighters. France has had another program with Indonesia during the France Defense Minister visit, including possible Scorpene order with the manufacturing done in Indonesia's PT PAL, but concrete conctrac hasnt been signed, something that I see as respond of Australian recent deal with US and Britain that kick out previous France submarine deal with Aussie.

Regarding to possible F 15 EX acquisition for Indonesia. I doubt we are going to buy F 15 EX as I said earlier that our current administration is very economic oriented and prefer to disburse subsidy than to increase weapon acquisition. Their previous deal with Russia with SU35 order for 11 planes had also shown this tendency. At that time Prabowo hasnt become our defense minister. The contenders were F16 Block 70 and SU 35, the reason SU 35 is picked is mainly due to payment will be made in barter over half of the total amount of contract ( economic reason and preference on Indonesia's own product ).

This administration (Jokowi as the center of power), as I see, is also very pro of local industry. It can be easily seen in their first term administration defense procurement realization ( 2014-2019). I also see them ( particularly Jokowi, Planning Minister, SOE Minister, and Finance Minister) prefer KF21 program and keep ordering Rafale at very minimum order ( 6 at the mean time ), contrast with their own Defense Minister, Prabowo Subianto.

Once again to clear many misconception that I see in many international medias with lack of deep of Indonesian politics knowledge, It is wrong to see Prabowo statement as our administration statemen, what he said is not necessarily alligned with Jokowi main team policy within Jokowi administration. Dont forget, Prabowo was a previous contender of our President Election in both 2014 and 2019 Presidential elections and has become Jokowi rival for at least 5 years.

Very cool. Thanks for taking the time and writing all that information. It's interesting how the MALAYSIAN lol air force is interested in pretty much the same fighters as the EAF. From the Rafales to the Su-35s to the F-15s and even F-16s to some degree. The only one missing seems to be the MiG-29/35!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1512423950579556355

https://twitter.com/x/status/1512426435310493697

Strange that he said we have French MMP when we didn't see photos of them in our inventory.

Russians seem to have noticed ISIS' use of Toyotas and saw some advantage to using them Ukraine as well.

 

[joker88]

Indonesia just order 6 Rafale. 36 Rafales are part of LOI but in my opinion is unlikely to happen. I see possibility for Rafale Indonesian order is just 6 until 12 planes and the next order in my opinion will likely to take place in new administration (2025-2029) and it would likely Rafale F4 as for 6 planes we bought this year is F3R version. The order will likely take place just to complete the number of plane into 12-16 planes, which is the normal number of planes for 1 squadron in Indonesia.

Many dont understand Indonesian politics and needs. Those 6 Rafale order is just a replacement of previous SU 35 order, it has the same amount of money, 1.1 billion USD, and will be financed with foreign loan.

Jokowi administration is very conservative in relation to defense acquisition, only very essential order will be conducted, like this Rafale F3R for 6 planes since it is intended to fill previous F 5 squadron in Iswahyudi base, Madiun, where all of 12 F 5 planes have already been grounded. The squadron get 3 SU 30 from other squadron in order to keep the squadron alive.

You need to differentiate between our Minister of Defense wants with overall Jokowi administration wants. Unlike Egypt which is governed by Military government, Indonesia is governed by civilian government where economy become very very important part of overall decision making process in doing any government procurement.

Basically our Rafale hasnt been made yet since even the money hasnt been given by our finance minister despite the contract for 6 planes have been signed. I see second semester of 2022 where the money will be given, this is the behavior of our Finance Minister, Sri Mulyani, even for submarine production facility for state owned PT PAL, she gives the money in the end of 2021 despite the program has been agreed since the end of 2020. She should have given the money in early 2021, but she didnt do it despite our budget is very healthy in 2021 and exceed previous expectation that make finance minister issued much less government bond than the previous plan.

I know that an amount of the budget has been allocated for development, but why so far the frame has not been put into effect, even though the Genoa basins have been completed?

The Rafale is not a problem for Indonesia, because it will eventually reach the required number. Indonesia is waiting for development. F4.1. Only development is continuing. I follow the ambitious plan of the Navy and Air Force of the Indonesian Army. It is excellent, but it needs time, not a little.

 

[Indos]

I know that an amount of the budget has been allocated for development, but why so far the frame has not been put into effect, even though the Genoa basins have been completed?

The Rafale is not a problem for Indonesia, because it will eventually reach the required number. Indonesia is waiting for development. F4.1. Only development is continuing. I follow the ambitious plan of the Navy and Air Force of the Indonesian Army. It is excellent, but it needs time, not a little.

What do you mean of Genoa basin ?

Rafale is expensive and this is of course a problem for Indonesia. As I said earlier that our current administration is very economic centric, even since Soeharto take the power in 1968, Indonesia since then is always putting economic development as number one, unlike during Soekarno period. Later on, after the 1997-1998 financial crisis, the prudent economic policy is always our number one priority and this is why we start capping the budget deficit no more than 3 %. Before 2020 as a Pandemic year, the budget deficit tends to be around 2 % of GDP.

The reason of why we keep buying 6 Rafale is due to fill former F 5 squadron as I have earlier said. Previously it should be SU 35 who fill the squadron. It is already a dire needs of our Air Force. Any way those 6 planes will only be arrived around 2026-2027, depending on how quick our finance minister make the contract effective by paying the down payment which she hasnt done until now.

 

[Indos]

Very cool. Thanks for taking the time and writing all that information. It's interesting how the MALAYSIAN lol air force is interested in pretty much the same fighters as the EAF. From the Rafales to the Su-35s to the F-15s and even F-16s to some degree. The only one missing seems to be the MiG-29/35!

Your welcome,

Actually I never heard Malaysia is interested with F 15. Malaysia instead has 8 F 18 and it had for some years some Mig 29 planes that later being grounded. They also dont have F 16.

Currently Malaysia Air Force is not really ambitious, they will only buy new MRCA after 2026 and currently is going to order LCA for 16-18 planes which likely to be FA 50 from Korea.

 

[joker88]

What do you mean of Genoa basin ?

Rafale is expensive and this is of course a problem for Indonesia. As I said earlier that our current administration is very economic centric, even since Soeharto take the power in 1968, Indonesia since then is always putting economic development as number one, unlike during Soekarno period. Later on, after the 1997-1998 financial crisis, the prudent economic policy is always our number one priority and this is why we start capping the budget deficit no more than 3 %. Before 2020 as a Pandemic year, the budget deficit tends to be around 2 % of GDP.

The reason of why we keep buying 6 Rafale is due to fill former F 5 squadron as I have earlier said. Previously it should be SU 35 who fill the squadron. It is already a dire needs of our Air Force. Any way those 6 planes will only be arrived around 2026-2027, depending on how quick our finance minister make the contract effective by paying the down payment which she hasnt done until now.

In the sense that the docks after the exit of frame 9 from the docks and the expiry of the Qatar orders, it became clear that the Indonesian order from Pergamini did not enter into force. Do you have news about it?

 

[Ghostkiller]

I have a question why Egyptian army can't reverse engineer equipments and weapons. Like ATGM, Missile (cruise missile like iranians with Noor cruise missile which is a copy of the Chinese C-802 anti-ship missile) etc... We did it with the Tayer El Sabah a copy of S-75 Dvina missile (SAM-2).
Sometimes we have to reverse engineer to advance our defense industry.

 

[Indos]

In the sense that the docks after the exit of frame 9 from the docks and the expiry of the Qatar orders, it became clear that the Indonesian order from Pergamini did not enter into force. Do you have news about it?

Oh, Ok, do you mean FREMM right ?

Indonesian order for 6 FREEM is still in LOI level, many international media don't know it. It hasnt yet been backed by our Finance Minister until now. April is the month where many defense acquisition programs will get screened by our Finance Minister. We should wait for another weeks to see the progress on this one and also other LOI/MOU level signing in Indonesia's defense procurement program.

 

[Gomig-21]

I have a question why Egyptian army can't reverse engineer equipments and weapons. Like ATGM, Missile (cruise missile like iranians with Noor cruise missile which is a copy of the Chinese C-802 anti-ship missile) etc... We did it with the Tayer El Sabah a copy of S-75 Dvina missile (SAM-2).
Sometimes we have to reverse engineer to advance our defense industry.

Who says they can't ya Basha? Don't listen to those jealous turks like m&m or whatever his name is. Egypt choses to do it the legal way and that is with ToT in almost all cases. They also have a ton of indigenous products with original designs like radars, IFVs, MRAPs, and of course, as you aptly noticed, they're really getting into drones, and have started manufacturing several locally designed UAVs, among many other military products.

A lot of the items that they would be interested in reverse engineering or copying the design are equipment built by important and friendly allies. They have a certain diplomatic stance they abide by as to never cheat and steal from any of these important and friendly allies.

Oh, Ok, do you mean FREMM right ?

Indonesian order for 6 FREEM is still in LOI level, many international media don't know it. It hasnt yet been backed by our Finance Minister until now. April is the month where many defense acquisition programs will get screened by our Finance Minister. We should wait for another weeks to see the progress on this one and also other LOI/MOU level signing in Indonesia's defense procurement program.

Hey my friend, take a look at this thread if you haven't seen if already and let the OP know if you're interested. I think you would make the Shokran gazeelan.

Moderation for Arab Section PDF

Salam and belated Eid Mubarak to all Arab members of PDF. If there are any moderation requirements on the Arab Section at PDF then instead of hitting back please report it and tag me to handle it. We're looking at inducting an Arab moderator too but until that's done please let me know as I'll...

defence.pk

@jaibi . we'll wait to hear from @Indos if he's interested in taking on this responsibility. I think he would make the best moderator for the Arab section because of many positive attributes he has as well as the incredible level of military knowledge he possesses.