Egyptian Armed Forces

[mekawy]

Egypt's defense budget?

many resources besides budget

 

[HannibalBarca]

Egypt's defense budget?

around a third of Osrael

 

[DavidSling]

many resources besides budget

That means? aid?

Wanna be safe?


around a third of Israel

So how are they buying all these equipment, while maintaining the army?
aid from other arab countries maybe?

 

[HannibalBarca]

That means? aid?

So how are they buying all these equipment, while maintaining the army?
aid from other arab countries maybe?

Loans mostly...

 

[DavidSling]

Loans mostly...

What's so imminent that forces Egypt to take loans?

 

[HannibalBarca]

What's so imminent that forces Egypt to take loans?

Well to renew their arsenal...

 

[Gomig-21]

@Blue Marlin @The SC @MICA

800 million per ship that France will pay for its order for eight of the new warships

egypt deal for 24 rafale & 1 fremm is 4.5B euro , 3.5B for 24 rafale with armament & 1B for fremm with armament ,50% of the deal is a french loan ,this is the egyptian/french deals prices

And that price (800 million Euros per ship) doesn't even include the maintenance fee for a certain contractual period and they took out the jamming equipment and the satellite antenna. At least the Egyptian Navy can use its own military sat coms but it will need to figure something out for the ECM/jamming hardware it needs to replace.

 

[Blue Marlin]

And that price (800 million Euros per ship) doesn't even include the maintenance fee for a certain contractual period and they took out the jamming equipment and the satellite antenna. At least the Egyptian Navy can use its own military sat coms but it will need to figure something out for the ECM/jamming hardware it needs to replace.

i find it very strange eygpt purchased the fremm in the first place. the singapore formidable class packs more punch an this ship and it has 32 cell a50 vls as compared to the a43 vls on the fremm. france removed the a70 vls as they were for the mdcn missiles and thats not available for export.
it has the same search radar as the formidable class.
the only thing the fremm has the advantage is the block 3 exocet, range and the torpedoes.
that and its a lot cheaper.

 

[mekawy]

i find it very strange eygpt purchased the fremm in the first place. the singapore formidable class packs more punch an this ship and it has 32 cell a50 vls as compared to the a43 vls on the fremm. france removed the a70 vls as they were for the mdcn missiles and thats not available for export.
it has the same search radar as the formidable class.
the only thing the fremm has the advantage is the block 3 exocet, range and the torpedoes.
that and its a lot cheaper.

its all about the role as the fremm is ASW with the CAPTAS 4 sonar not GP as the formidable,
we can replace the A70 with A50 vls & aster 30 but the herakles radar needs more power to guide aster 30 to range 70/80 km ( the range formidable can guide aster 30) so you will reduce the CAPTAS 4 power and so ..

thales and dcns preparing new version of herakles for the french 2 freda can guide aster 30 i think we will take it

 

[DavidSling]

Well to renew their arsenal...

Loans are hard on the economy, shouldn't be taken unless urgent in my opinion.
Impressive acquisition however

 

[HannibalBarca]

Loans are hard on the economy, shouldn't be taken unless urgent in my opinion.
Impressive acquisition however

more will come... if they keep acquiring at this rate...
But yeah... Intersting stuff...
but IMO those "buying" could have waiting... till the Economy is rly back on track.

Anyway their money their toy.

 

[Gomig-21]

i find it very strange eygpt purchased the fremm in the first place. the singapore formidable class packs more punch an this ship and it has 32 cell a50 vls as compared to the a43 vls on the fremm. france removed the a70 vls as they were for the mdcn missiles and thats not available for export.
it has the same search radar as the formidable class.
the only thing the fremm has the advantage is the block 3 exocet, range and the torpedoes.
that and its a lot cheaper.

Not too strange since it's not only the anti submarine role requirement for Egypt vs the general purpose frigate in the Formidable, but being part of a combined, arms contract that included the 24 Rafales and weapons as well as 2 Rafale simulators, if I'm not mistaken. So the ASW + keeping everything French (even though it's French & Italian) with the combined contract, weapons, training etc. makes the whole deal better (despite the Rafale price being crazy high, it still was the least expensive out of all the Rafale deals made so far), not to mention the ease of logistical matters with one supplier when there is so much combined weapons purchased together.

 

[Blue Marlin]

its all about the role as the fremm is ASW with the CAPTAS 4 sonar not GP as the formidable,
we can replace the A70 with A50 vls & aster 30 but the herakles radar needs more power to guide aster 30 to range 70/80 km ( the range formidable can guide aster 30) so you will reduce the CAPTAS 4 power and so ..

thales and dcns preparing new version of herakles for the french 2 freda can guide aster 30 i think we will take it

there is no relation between the captas 4 and the herakles(H). the H is a standard radar with no export variant. a good example was you guys, as france did not touch the H when the ship was sold to eygpt.
note the Hhas a range of 250 km which is well with in range of the aster 30 max range of 120km.

you are correct about the sylver 43 upgradable to the a50.
but dont you agree that for a ship as large and expensive as the french fremm there are other alternatives out there.

Not too strange since it's not only the anti submarine role requirement for Egypt vs the general purpose frigate in the Formidable, but being part of a combined, arms contract that included the 24 Rafales and weapons as well as 2 Rafale simulators, if I'm not mistaken. So the ASW + keeping everything French (even though it's French & Italian) with the combined contract, weapons, training etc. makes the whole deal better (despite the Rafale price being crazy high, it still was the least expensive out of all the Rafale deals made so far), not to mention the ease of logistical matters with one supplier when there is so much combined weapons purchased together.

in regards to price eygpt paid a premium because they purchased the fremm and some rafales that were just ready to be delivered. look at how much Morocco paid for their fremm which has the exact spec as the Egyptian ship.
the only good deal egypt got was for the mistrals as theres not a lot of countries that would want to buy a ship at russain specs. that and your navy had to fork out for 46 ka-52k's which cost as much as the ships itself.

anyway.... as for logistics, the french are well known for their exorbitant prices. look at what happened to taiwan, brazil and india with the mk2 as an example.

 

[mekawy]

there is no relation between the captas 4 and the herakles(H). the H is a standard radar with no export variant. a good example was you guys, as france did not touch the H when the ship was sold to eygpt.
note the Hhas a range of 250 km which is well with in range of the aster 30 max range of 120km.

you are correct about the sylver 43 upgradable to the a50.
but dont you agree that for a ship as large and expensive as the french fremm there are other alternatives out there.

they are related with the same power source if you want radar to work with its maximum capabilities you need to give it more power so less will be passed to sonar ( that what i read from technical experienced resources )

herakles is 250 km maximum range ( detection of huge rcs target like tankers or aewacs .. ) but the tracking ranges and guidance is more less or why france trying to upgeade herakles in their freda frigates if it could work with aster 30 to 120 km ?

Questions on the FREDA radar with Thales.

Navy Recognition (NR): How did Thales managed to increase the detection range of the Herakles ?
Thales radar expert (TRE): The increased range is obtained by:
• The increase in power (adding additional Tx modules in the transmitter bay)
• The generation of new impulses
• The creation of a new search/watch mode

NR: Does this "new" Herakles radar has a new name ?
TRE: No

NR: Will this "boosted" HERAKLES be a limiting factor relative to the capacity of Aster 30 missiles? In other words, in case of interception, will the FREDA + Herakles + Aster 30 combination have the same capabilities as the Horizon + Smart L+ Aster 30 combination ?
TRE: The Horizon frigates are equipped with SMART-L radar and EMPAR. Aster 30 firing tests (with French and foreign navies) showed that Herakles was very effective in its current configurations.

NR: Is there an impact on the current dimensions of the Herakles ?
TRE: No impact because predispositions were taken in the initial design.

NR: Will this radar provide Anti-ballistic Missile (ABM) capabilities to the FREDA vessels ?
TRE: The FREDA ships will not have to conduct ABM missions.

NR: Is the installation of adjunct systems necessary for the implementation of this radar ? (More power, more computers etc ...)
TRE: There is no installation of additional systems but an evolution of the Herakles system:
• Additional Tx modules are added for the "boosted" version of Herakles, requiring adjustment of the setting of the Tx modules cooling system.
• Changes in certain subsets of the radar was necessary to generate new impulses and the new "Long Range" search/watch mode (signal generation, treatment, ...)

NR: Will there be a test phase at the shore integration facility (in St. Mandrier) ?
TRE: This is not planned for FREDA.

NR: Finally can you confirm the range increase of 50 Km for the "boosted" Herakles (from 250 km to 300 km) ?
TRE: We can not mention any numbers, we can just mention a significant increase in range.

about alternatives there is italy with bergamini but france offered long partnership not just a deal + financial support
+ the situations between egy & italy now is complicated

 

[Blue Marlin]

they are related with the same power source if you want radar to work with its maximum capabilities you need to give it more power so less will be passed to sonar ( that what i read from technical experienced resources )

herakles is 250 km maximum range ( detection of huge rcs target like tankers or aewacs .. ) but the tracking ranges and guidance is more less or why france trying to upgeade herakles in their freda frigates if it could work with aster 30 to 120 km ?



about alternatives there is italy with bergamini but france offered long partnership not just a deal + financial support
+ the situations between egy & italy now is complicated

in peace time the sonar and the H wont be operational at least not at the same time.
the boosted H is basically a souped up version of the original which only required a software update and a changes to the pms for it to be boosted.
the h can provide mid guidance updates but not against balistic missiles as the radar can track them.
the italian is far more advanced as the french ship so lets not go there. as for financing is concerned, that is a factor in the deal and without it the order could not have been made.