Israeli defense relations with Russia, France, USA are in a different league as compared to her relations with China. Neither Russia or France are relying on any cutting edge technology from Israel, but China, has yet to reach to a point where its relationship with Israel will be equal in terms of sophisticated technologies. Whereas France (as well as other Western countries) is reluctant to deal with China, Israel is relatively open and in the near future, I dont see China would like to let go this important collaboration.
Wrong, Your statement, stands correct till the Levi- J10 show down. China and Israel were regarded as close partners and American technologies did flow through Israel to China, but those days are long over. Americans when found that Levi blue prints where transferred to china, where very un-pleased with it. Israel got its spanking from uncle Sam, and it was during the project when Israel had to draw back its hand.
We cannot see any significant military and defense deals between China and Israel after that rumble. After all how can Israel ignore its big daddy America.
More Importantly China is no more that dependent on Israel or others for its defense technologies. Long and hard hit sanctions have made sure, that they follow the path of self dependency. This has become more fruitful by the presence of good economic conditions, strong Industrial base and its skilled labor. which otherwise would have not been possible. It is no more relying on cutting edge technologies from Russia or the west specially Europe. The fact that China opted out of Russian fifth generation fighter Pakfa when offered, speak volumes of its self confidence and technological advancements.
Its important to note that China is now in the drivers seat, the world needs it more then it needs the world.
Lastly Israel as I mentioned is of negligible importance for china in this case. However the more important thing to note is how west have changed their opinion about china, recently France signed an agreement with china to Produce jet engines for Large commercial and transport Air-crafts. Spain is infurious with rest of Europe and NATO to end and uplift defense and Military sanctions on china. They clearly have realized that they are loosing badly especially in economic terms.
Yes, only a better image, nothing more than that. It was for the same better image that US never supplied the Egypt with AMRAAM; and if US wont supply Egypt with something she thinks would in anyway challenge the absolute supremacy of the IDFAF, than no other country under the US influence would. Egypt can only hope to get something like this from Russia, but the way Egypt trashed its former ally Soviet Union after the war of 1973, and fell in the lap of the US,
This part of the story is correct only in regard to US.
I dont think Russia would be too enthusiastic to help Egypt. The Egyptian Air Force is eying on acquiring the BVR capability for decades, but it never materialized because nobody is willing to give it to them. So it is incorrect to say that the US and her Western allies have no issues with Egypt on procuring hi-tech defense hardware whereas they have them with Iran or North Korea.
Wrong again Russia will not hesitate for a second to sell them their own fighters with BVR (Talking with out BVR is naive, Egyptians dont have money into the garbage bin). I have cleared this issue in one of my earlier posts, that Russia if has no problem with Pakistan to sell the engines when we were the cause of their down fall in cold war in Afghanistan as so were they to our breakdown in 71, why would they have any issue with the harmless Egyptians?? only because they joined the western pole in 73???? Russians are know to be one hell of business people, there is a famous quote regarding them which I personally don't like,"
The Russians will sell their mothers for Money". To add to that, check out when they sold advance space rocket engines to America and that too during the peak of Cold war. What more examples can one give to convince you otherwise.
Same goes for France, their Mirages are still flying with Royal Egyptian Air Force. France will love to sell them their Rafaels.
The only Problem for Egypt is money, they need numbers and French or Russian fighters are a lot expensive and wont give them the required numbers. Tell me one thing, we all know J-10 is more capable then JF-17, why isn't Egypt buying that ????
The days of BVR AAMs resting in the Exclusive Members Club arsenal is long over . New players have emerged in the Market, and they are playing their game rightly. The west monopoly has been broken , they have to play their game right or would be soon out of it. some Like France and Spain has realized and are more then willing to swim along the flow rather to move in the opposite direction.
China is more than willing to supply with SD-10 is yet to be seen; as of now, there is only a news of selling some JF-17s and a possibility of having a production line in Egypt.
This is naive, why would some one like to buy the teeth less thunders????? Just to change their old air frames or to get good targets for practice to the enemy???
China would sell SD-10 through Pakistan is also not possible; China is far independent and sovereign a country than Pakistan who is capable of cutting deals while ignoring American and Western concerns, Pakistan
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Correct, and no difference of opinion on that. My example was just an assumption to your wrong perception of the picture which I assumed correct just to make you understand. In this post I have cleared china's Importance in this game.
I do not have to say more on Pakistans independence and sovereignty; you are intelligent enough to figure it out.
This satirical statement, although true , does not deserve any place in this discussion.
You can not equate the sale of a Russian jet engine to Pakistan via China with the sale of a BVR AAM to Egypt via Pakistan. I would have bought your point if Pakistan was acquiring R-77 or S-300/400 from Russia via China, and Indian voice was ignored.
Why not, Russian and Pakistan have fought wars with each other, on other hand Pakistan enjoys good relationship with both Egypt and offcourse China. Same goes for china and Egypt.
I am am amazed a well qualified poster like you is raising issues not more worth then 2 pennies. Tell me was R-77 in the presence of SD10 more important to the project or the Engine??? Which Item should be considered project critical???
For S-300 why should Pakistan buy it when a Cheaper alternative HQ-9 is available??? And more important then that why hasn't Pakistan bought HQ-9 so far??? The answer is simple ,,, Its just matter of priority.
If want more, please check out Russian articles in our Inventory, what does Mi-17 sound like??? And don't forget to reed T-80/84 UDs history.
Unlike you, I would be surprised if MiCA finds its way to Egypt at least not until Israel is ready to counter that threat.
That is a weak comment , just a gut feeling nothing more. Recent Developments on the international stage are pointing in the other direction and contrary to what you say.
There is no question why JF-17 is an attractive choice for many customers, but supplying every Air Force with SD-10 is not going to happen.
May be right, not every air force is going to get it, but Egypt's case is different, they are not every other Air force, they are possible the biggest foreign customer, which makes them very significant, and its their prime need. Jf-17 with out SD-10 is worth less to them. I need not to say more I have already elaborated it.
Its an assumption at best if we think that JF-17 will be able to have a monopoly on the market of its class of fighters in the third world. The selling of Su-30 to countries like Vietnam, Indonesia, and Malaysia and Grippen to Thailand should serve as an eye opener.
Su30 have been their for decades now, but what about JF-17??? Its a baby which is just putting down its first step in the Market. Give it some time and it will wipe out the SU 30, from the poor Third World.
Malaysia is a rich country they can have any air craft they want, from any corner of the world.
As a Pakistani, I wish all the best for the JF-17 program, but its selling to a number of countries would no way prove a slam dunk as many are prophesizing.
You are a great debater and a respectable one, Criticism is good but when done in the right context with right information. The approach is more pessimistic in this case, where it should be optimistic to bring life to critical thoughts.
Adios
but in defense talks 
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