EADS Eurofighter in the MRCA competition Thread

[Kinetic]

Yes India is so rich it can buy all the fighter jets in the world!! Buy buy buy buy yes!

India is buying all fighters. Just the list....

SU-30MKI
FGFA
LCA
MRCA (Eurofighter/F-18)
Mig-29K
Naval MRCA (F-35/ Sea Typhoon)

 

[Kinshuk]

I tend to agree with Faithfulguy.. The gap is just too much and if it does not widens up still the gap will remain..

Secondly, we don't need to compare with US of A. They aren't enemy..

 

[Kinetic]

I tend to agree with Faithfulguy.. The gap is just too much and if it does not widens up still the gap will remain..

Secondly, we don't need to compare with US of A. They aren't enemy..

USA may not be our enemy but they are not friend as well. They are friend to none. It is the most narrow minded country in the world which wants to take advantages from others weakness. If USA is you enemy bad but if USA is you friend than worse! As per US dictionary, 'Friend' aka 'ally' means slaves.

But what India is doing is best and neither enemy nor 'ally'. This is the best way to tackle US hegemony... We can't just ignore them. Take the advantages of US 'friendship' while rejecting troops proposals for Afghanistan/Iraq, keeping good relations with Iran. One hand we are getting PAK FA, carrier, Akula-II from Russia on the other hand P-8I, Aegis, PAC-3, F-35 are on the list from USA.

 

[Kinshuk]

Eurofighter to undergo thorough evaluation in MMRCA programme.
Eurofighter Consortium eyes $10.4 billion contract for future Indian fighter aircraft

http://www.defpro.com/daily/details/508/

11:04 GMT, February 15, 2010 defpro.com | Coinciding with the starting signal for India’s largest defence exhibition, DEFEXPO 2010 (15-18 February 2010), a German Air Force Eurofighter fighter aircraft will be heading to India today. However, this aircraft will not be making acrobatic manoeuvres for the visitors of the show but, rather, will be thoroughly examined by the Indian Air Force (IAF) as part of the medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) MMRCA programme. The Eurofighter will join India’s ongoing programme, which has been initiated in August 2007 and is currently in the process of testing all participating contenders, to undergo trials until March in Bengaluru as well as in Jaisalmer and Leh. The two latter stations will demonstrate the Eurofighter’s desert and high altitude performance.

As 8ak.in recently reported, the prospects for a success of Eurofighter in India still are difficult to judge, as the European consortium is receiving mixed signals from Indian officials. While there is general consent that the performance of the aircraft is up to the expectations, the pricing reportedly is an issue. Reuters news agency quoted India’s Ambassador, Arif Shahid Khan, saying Eurofighter Typhoon is leading the race to win the new fighter deal with the Indian Air Force. The Ambassador stressed the top position held by Eurofighter Typhoon during a meeting in late January with Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi in Rome.

However, a technical triumph of the Eurofighter in the evaluation phase would not automatically mean that the Eurofighter consortium will be awarded the contract for the 126 required aircraft, worth an estimated 10.4 billion. As 8ak.in explains, EADS (holding 46% in the four-nation Eurofighter consortium) has already had bad experiences with Indian procurement procedures in the past. Despite the IAF’s full approval of the procurement of Airbus tanker aircraft, the Indian finance ministry brought these plans to a sudden end, saying it would be too expensive.

The Eurofighter is competing against Dassault’s Rafale, Saab’s JAS 39 Super Gripen IN, Boeing’s F/A-18E/F-IN Super Hornet, Lockheed Martin’s F-16IL and Russia’s MiG-35. According to the Eurofighter Press Office Blog, the Eurofighter Typhoon offers a broad spectrum of operational advantages to India, such as its adaptability to severe weather conditions, high mission effectiveness and survivability in threat situations as well as considerable in country economic benefits.

Bernhard Gerwert, chairman of the supervisory board of Eurofighter GmbH and CEO of Military Air Systems, a business unit of EADS Defence & Security (DS) said: “We are well positioned in the ongoing tender [...] because the Eurofighter Typhoon is the ideal answer to the threats that India faces.” He added “The aircraft's outstanding operational performance, coupled with low life-cycle costs and a tailor-made industrial partnership offer, make the Eurofighter Typhoon a key contender in India's competition.”

Eurofighter will attempt to demonstrate the aircraft’s claimed advantages at the DEFEXPO show, where its stand will showcase a Eurofighter simulator. A success in the Indian fighter race would be a bonanza for the consortium which is searching for additional export customers since quite a while. Enzo Casolini, CEO of Eurofighter GmbH, told the Indo-Asian News Service: “We evaluate the global demand for combat aircraft in the next 20 years at around 800 units. For Eurofighter Typhoon, we target 300 additional export contracts, with Asia representing a substantial part of these orders.”

So far, the only export successes for the Eurofighter have been Austria and Saudi Arabia. While the Austrian procurement programme suffered from a controversial political and financial debate, resulting in the procurement of only 15 aircraft, the Saudi Kingdom ordered a total of 72 aircraft in late 2007.

As 8ak.in points out, the engine question (always being one of the most prominent field of interest in a fighter aircraft programme) may further support Eurofighter’s position in the MMRCA race. EUROJET Turbo GmbH is not only providing the engine for the Eurofighter but is, furthermore, interested in extending its industrial presence in India (see defence.professionals | defpro.com). EUROJET recently announced that, if required, they are willing to transfer their single crystal turbine blade technology to India. According to company sources, the technology transfer is currently not under the scope of the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) engine request for proposal (RfP). However, the news service states “it makes commercial sense for India to choose the same engine for the MMRCA that they would choose to power the Tejas.”


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By Nicolas von Kospoth, Managing Editor

 

[Kinshuk]

Finally my fav arrives in India..

 

[Kinetic]

Finally my fav arrives in India..

Second that. Eurofighter is the future of European air forces. It has several technologies only second to PAK FA and F-22. It has bright future as well.

 

[Kinshuk]

But I don't see EF winning the MMRCA, It lacks most of what India has quoted.

 

[Kinetic]

But I don't see EF winning the MMRCA, It lacks most of what India has quoted.

Yes there were indications that F-18 get the trophy but EFT exceeds than what India asked. But the funny thing is reported in some news article.... the IAF does not want highest capable fighter but which meets all of the IAF's RFP with lowest cost is the possible winner. In that way IAF will not get the best...

 

[sancho]

Reuters news agency quoted India’s Ambassador, Arif Shahid Khan, saying Eurofighter Typhoon is leading the race to win the new fighter deal with the Indian Air Force. The Ambassador stressed the top position held by Eurofighter Typhoon during a meeting in late January with Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi in Rome.

However, a technical triumph of the Eurofighter in the evaluation phase would not automatically mean that the Eurofighter consortium will be awarded the contract for the 126 required aircraft, worth an estimated 10.4 billion. As 8ak.in explains, EADS (holding 46% in the four-nation Eurofighter consortium) has already had bad experiences with Indian procurement procedures in the past. Despite the IAF’s full approval of the procurement of Airbus tanker aircraft, the Indian finance ministry brought these plans to a sudden end, saying it would be too expensive.

This confirms exactly what I thougt about the claims of the ambassdor! EF was leading only in the evaluation before the trials for obvious reasons of course. On paper it is clearly the best 4+ multi role fighter at present, but in reality its sadly the best 4+ A2A fighter at present, with basic multi role capabilities only.
I expect the same that happened in the Singapore competition too, the EF will prove its superiority in A2A, with great performance in the flight trials in Bangalore, but could be not shortlisted to the final stage, if it can't prove good A2G capabilities in the weapon trials in the UK too.
Even if the IAF and MoD don't want good A2G capabilities, the chances of EF would still remain low, because the Gripen NG would be the better choice!
It has a comparabel delta-canard design, has also proven SC capabilities, will have the same Selsex AESA radar and even the same Asraam/Amraam, or Asraam/Meteor combo as the EF offers.
The EF will only have slight advantages in terms of t/w ratio and radar detection range maybe, but no clear advantage that will justify the way higher unit and operational costs over the Gripen NG.

I like the EF too, but its useless and not worth the money for IAF, without full A2G capabilities integrated and if the AESA radar will be ready and tested in time!

 

[Kinshuk]

Yes there were indications that F-18 get the trophy but EFT exceeds than what India asked. But the funny thing is reported in some news article.... the IAF does not want highest capable fighter but which meets all of the IAF's RFP with lowest cost is the possible winner. In that way IAF will not get the best...

I read a long time back that IAF is looking for a stealthier, cost effective, good ATG, AESA radar and a technology that helps India the most in its indegenous projects also.

Typhoon lacks ATG, AESA but I don't understand why haven't they integrated ground attack yet fully.

 

[Kinshuk]

Sancho,

I don't see India choosing gripen NG, when India has already allocated more funds for LCA (forgot the amount), Antony declared LCA as a success. Well I am not an expert to claim that LCA is at par with Gripen, but I don't see any reason also to invest again in a single engine AC when we already have a similar AC of our own.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Kinetic]

I read a long time back that IAF is looking for a stealthier, cost effective, good ATG, AESA radar and a technology that helps India the most in its indegenous projects also.

Typhoon lacks ATG, AESA but I don't understand why haven't they integrated ground attack yet fully.

Yes that was commented by then IAF chief Krisnaswamy. But the EFT Tranche 3 that the IAF been offered has full ATG and the best AESA radar among the MRCA contenders.

EFT is stealthier but not cost effective, though it might have less life time maintenance cost than Russian fighters used by the IAF.

 

[Kinshuk]

Well I see EF SH-18 for sure in the first short-list. F-16 IN is surely not there. Mig- 35 also has modicum chances.. odd man Rafale and Gripen, lets see who gets lucky..

 

[saurabh]

If typhoon is having problems in A2G, then it has loosed a lot of points..
AFAIK, IAF would be replacing jaguar and mig27 with it, meaning it needs to have better A2G capabilities. This is the problem that started the MRCA thing, if I remember well, troubles in A2G in kargil.

Other major requirement seems TOT. Now MOD seems to be pretty interested in indegenization of defence industry, TOT will get lot of emphasis. And if I am right about it, there goes the US of A...

 

[sancho]

Sancho,

I don't see India choosing gripen NG, when India has already allocated more funds for LCA (forgot the amount), Antony declared LCA as a success. Well I am not an expert to claim that LCA is at par with Gripen, but I don't see any reason also to invest again in a single engine AC when we already have a similar AC of our own.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Me either, my example was only to show that even if IAF wants only such good A2A performance and there is no focus on A2G, the EF wouldn't be the best choice.
The Gripen NG is not a bad choice because it is a single engine fighter, at the moment we have Mig 21 Bisons and Mirage 2000 that works pretty good side by side. The problem is that LCA MK2 is designed with the same aims and could be very close to the Gripen in A2A and only the weapons could make a difference (Amraam, or Meteor, vs R77, or Astra). In A2G the NG should offer some more advantages, but compared to other MMRCAs it's nothing.
Again it mainly will depend on what IAF exaclty wants, cost-effectiveness, mainly A2G capabilities, or mainly A2G?

I read a long time back that IAF is looking for a stealthier, cost effective, good ATG, AESA radar and a technology that helps India the most in its indegenous projects also.

Unless the cost-effectivness, only the Rafale meets this requirements!