DRDO to unveil catapult gun system built on Arjun MBT Mk-I chassis | GSQR trials in May

[kingdurgaking]

Thts a lot of bullshit..let me explain how:


I never said said a rifled gun can't fire sabots or stabilised rounds.. I said modern rounds Dnt need a rifled gun ... Infact a rifled gun only screws the effectiveness of finned rounds and also itself... By not only decreasing its life but also the performance of the round.. You don't want a stablised finned sabot etc spinning ?lmao.. While it's the opposite n smoothbores... !!! Which have longer ranger,more muzzle velocity and accuracy thanks to modern ammo.. Tht Dnt need a rifled gun with its cons to be stablised.. Hence no problem with accuracy as ur pal was parroting..

2nd) no the basic mk1 can't ... Even the improved Arjun mk2 is facing smokey chamber issues while firing a missile./. And yes no structural change is there... If it was so hunky dory it wouldn't be a problem


An improved version of the same tank facing a problem resolved in the basic version sounds logical ????..And yes I did provide the sources...


Heck it's gun is obsolete... Again I provided the link with data..

The problem with rifled gun is many rounds where not supported because of the technological constraints , which are solved in Arjun tank.. For heaven sake who told rifled gun is obsolete.. It is a design concept, since no tank is not using it means it doesnt mean it is obsolete .. They where not able to solve the problems which is why it is abandoned .. Theoretically it is proved that rifled has more accuracy in fire power...

 

[BDforever]

The problem with rifled gun is many rounds where not supported because of the technological constraints , which are solved in Arjun tank.. For heaven sake who told rifled gun is obsolete.. It is a design concept, since no tank is not using it means it doesnt mean it is obsolete .. They where not able to solve the problems which is why it is abandoned .. Theoretically it is proved that rifled has more accuracy in fire power...

Modern smoothbore tank guns fire specialized ammunition that stabilizes itself with fins during flight. Therefore, no rifling is necessary. This also means that the barrels live longer, can handle more firings before needing to be replaced as a smooth surface inside the barrel wears out a lot less than a grooved surface. Finally, rifling slows the projectile down somewhat, so a smoothbore imparts a higher shell velocity relative to a rifled barrel. These differences aren't very big though.

 

[kingdurgaking]

Modern smoothbore tank guns fire specialized ammunition that stabilizes itself with fins during flight. Therefore, no rifling is necessary. This also means that the barrels live longer, can handle more firings before needing to be replaced as a smooth surface inside the barrel wears out a lot less than a grooved surface. Finally, rifling slows the projectile down somewhat, so a smoothbore imparts a higher shell velocity relative to a rifled barrel. These differences aren't very big though.

you are right... they live longer and can handle more firings.. which is the trade off IA is getting .. As far as i know they are satisfied with the number of firing before they can be replaced... For a smooth bore stabilization is the problem.. Modern firing rounds does that to a level of accuracy... But not to the level achieved in rifled barrel .. Arjun solved the problem of range by doing the firing at high pressure at as achieved the performance better than t-90

120 Millimetre MBT Arjun Armament System

 

[bloo]

Yes but with an arguement supported with hard data...

While what have you got? Patriotism?

Hard data?
Read them carefully yourself.
They are nothing more than biased opinions made from premature evaluation about a subject that he kid running for chump change knows nothing of.

 

[Hellfire]

I have a noob question,

Whats the difference between a 120mm MBT and 130MM SPG. Why is one a tank and the other a self propelled gun? Is it the range?

Meant for providing embedded mobile artillery for advancing armored formations. It is a stop gap measure till 155 mm SPG comes in. The gun is fine, we have had it in artillery (they being upgraded to Soltam 155mm configuration). Meets immediate requirements. And the overhead canopy is for protection against air burst fragments.

A question about assault rifle:
What F-INSAS multi caliber rifle development?

not the forum for it but dual barrel configuration ... 7.62/5.56 interchangeable

 

[Hellfire]

I never said said a rifled gun can't fire sabots or stabilised rounds.. I said modern rounds Dnt need a rifled gun ... Infact a rifled gun only screws the effectiveness of finned rounds and also itself... By not only decreasing its life but also the performance of the round.. You don't want a stablised finned sabot etc spinning ?lmao.. While it's the opposite n smoothbores... !!! Which have longer ranger,more muzzle velocity and accuracy thanks to modern ammo.. Tht Dnt need a rifled gun with its cons to be stablised.. Hence no problem with accuracy as ur pal was parroting..

Your posts are very interesting. You are basing them on presumption that no tech development took place in rifled systems and HESH in this intervening time period. Amazing. I am yet to see you spew out any hard data upon which you are making claims about Arjun without giving tedious references to other threads and members. The APFSDs do NOT get 'screwed' in rifled guns of modern era. Your assumption is wrong. The only reason for shorter life span of rifled as opposed to smooth bore was slightly greater transit time comparatively of round leaving the barrel. you are right about smooth bore and more modern armament not requiring further usage of HESH rounds (which are indeed ineffective against tanks) ...... but Indian army has requirement of the same for infantry support role.

2nd) no the basic mk1 can't ... Even the improved Arjun mk2 is facing smokey chamber issues while firing a missile./. And yes no structural change is there... If it was so hunky dory it wouldn't be a problem

Its dealt with.


The remainder of your post is waste of bandwidth. No real/effective information. So ignored

APFSDS is most effective against an mbt, secondly, a HEAT round with a high penetration value such invar of relfex or Kombat. Try using a HESH against an mbt covered with composite armour and ERA and see what happens.

HESH is envisaged in infantry support role. Modern day tanks anything with tandem warheads are effective .... lets not get into APFSDs vs modern day talk also.

 

[GORKHALI]

Looks effective to fill gaps.

 

[GORKHALI]

Here comes the dim jingoistic crap filled trolled with his usual BS n name calling ..

Somehow desperately trying to divert the topic n troll ... All cause he doesn't know jack about basic defence stuff...

But hey can't reply with facts let's rant n vomit .. Even if make him look like a dumbass.

Well its Arjun Catapult system thread but you trolled about how Arjun as a MBT failed.So Hold on your BS and make a thread for Arjun MBT VS Al khilji .

 

[Penguin]

Projectile fired by Rifled guns are more stable due to spin imparted on them by the gun hence they are more accurate when compared with non spinning smoothbore not so stable projectile .


@sancho @AUSTERLITZ @Penguin @Manticore am I correct ??

Indeed. Also, rifled guns can fire HESH rounds, which smoothbores can't IIRC. There is nothing inherently wrong with rifled guns. If so, you wouldn't see their continues use in e.g. artillery (155mm etc). See the 105mm L7 versus e.g. soviet 10mm or 115mm. It is more a matter of logistics imho: there simply are more 120mm smoothbore users these days then there are 120mm rifled gun users.

 

[GR!FF!N]

Thts a lot of bullshit..let me explain how:


I never said said a rifled gun can't fire sabots or stabilised rounds.. I said modern rounds Dnt need a rifled gun ... Infact a rifled gun only screws the effectiveness of finned rounds and also itself... By not only decreasing its life but also the performance of the round.. You don't want a stablised finned sabot etc spinning ?lmao.. While it's the opposite n smoothbores... !!! Which have longer ranger,more muzzle velocity and accuracy thanks to modern ammo.. Tht Dnt need a rifled gun with its cons to be stablised.. Hence no problem with accuracy as ur pal was parroting..

lets burst your BS,shall we????

modern rounds???what kind of????every round is gun specific.and every rounds tank fire,it "Tear and wear" the gun.but in Rifled Gun,it occurs more.but thanks to new techs,its been reduced significantly.APFSDS and other rounds doesn't depend on Rifling,but HESH is.this particular round has been in use in multiple frontline tanks,like Challenger-2,Leopard C1 and Arjun.plus,modern tech enable long gun life...see this.....

The barrel is 55 calibres long (L55) and is made of electro-slag refined (ESR) steel. The bore and chamber are electro-plated with chromium to give a barrel life of 400 effective full charges.

L30 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

according to DRDO,Arjun's gun's barrel life is 500 EFC .

120 Millimetre MBT Arjun Armament System

infact,longest tank kill was made by Challenger-1 tank using its Rifled gun and HESH ammo in 1991.Smoothbore can't have that kind of accuracy.only plus point of smoothbore is it is easy to maintain and the ammo is cheap and can be procured from anywhere(one of the major reason why so many frontline tanks use it.you don't have to develop specialized ammo)

2nd) no the basic mk1 can't ... Even the improved Arjun mk2 is facing smokey chamber issues while firing a missile./. And yes no structural change is there... If it was so hunky dory it wouldn't be a problem

please spare us from your BS..Arjun Mk-1 can fire missile.as well as Mk-II can.some modifications will be made about smokey chamber.I know you're getting a "H@rd on" reading that news,but its a minor problem...

An improved version of the same tank facing a problem resolved in the basic version sounds logical ????..And yes I did provide the sources...

BS

Heck it's gun is obsolete... Again I provided the link with data..


3) HESH is obsolete it was obsolete even in the 80s.. Unless you want to destroy apartment/buildings... Coz it sucks even against fortified positions... Heck do take a look at the ones in indian army service.. Even those aren't even worth crap.. Compared to other HESH crap rounds tht nobody uses today!!!!!!!!!

again why do Abrams,lecrecs,Leo's,AKs,t90s,t84s etc use the smoothbore if it's inferior to a rifled gun???


P.S: even the rounds in service with indian army are ... Read the links I posted..

you didn't post anything...read my post above.British Army,Indian Army even US Army uses it along with other armies.US Army calls it HEP Rounds.but they use it for Arty.it has been seen for several occasions that lack of HESH has paid its cost dearly.The optimised explosive composition of HESH defeats rolled homogenous armour plate detaching a scab of about 9 kg mass moving with a velocity of 100 to 120 m/s. Besides the scabbing effect, blast and shock imparts a tremendous jolt to the enemy tank stripping off explosive reactive armour and incapacitating the crew severely, thereby affecting their fighting capabilities.

120 Millimetre MBT Arjun Armament System

 

[Penguin]

Rifled gun is very much obsolete tech by todays standards, wonder why Indians went with them? Brits abandoned them back in 90s and went with smoothbores.

Rifled gun can be a nightmare in field conditions with its huge wear and tear that brings a small barrel life, the increased accuracy is questionable at best. Modern smoothbores are sophisticated and accurate.

Rifled guns produce less chamber pressure for shell penetrators which restrict their penetration values.

HESH is an obsolete shell, just like rifled gun, it is unable to penetrate a vehicle equipped with adequate composite armour (boron, titanium etc) and is next to useless against ERA.

BALONY. Name me an in service Brit tank that uses a 120mm smoothbore .... Challenger 2 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Dazzler]

Thanks .

Exactly,and while ours can take out the bunkers from long range with cheap rounds.Urs with AP rounds alone can't and have to wait for air support or precision artillery or make costly infantry assaults to clear the ATGM squads

Pakistan Ordnance Factories

BALONY. Name me an in service Brit tank that uses a 120mm smoothbore .... Challenger 2 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

there you go mate

rifled is replaced by smoothbore

 

[Penguin]

Pakistan Ordnance Factories



there you go mate

rifled is replaced by smoothbore

In July 2013, it was confirmed that the Challenger II Life Extension Programme is in the concept stage and will be in initial gate by 2014. So that's not a regular in service vehicle....

 

[Khaqan Humayun]

Good news for India and Asia.

 

[Dazzler]

In July 2013, it was confirmed that the Challenger II Life Extension Programme is in the concept stage and will be in initial gate by 2014. So that's not a regular in service vehicle....

thats not the point, the point is that they are replacing the rifled one with smoothbores. The OEM of rifled guns is moving away from it, India remains the only country with rifled tech in the world. For which, they have to make ordinance by themselves, a tricky situaiton indeed considering how bad they are at making tank ammunitions (the OFB saga goes along).