Arsalan
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No need to get personal,
What you are suggesting is correct but that do not mean you are allowed to do say by insulting other members.
DRDO - Boon or Bane?
- Thread starter Indian Patriot
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What you are suggesting is correct but that do not mean you are allowed to do say by insulting other members.
vsdave2302
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It is the arm forces to decide. If the rifle was so inefficient than why did they give the order. Do you know gen V K Singh praised INSAS. We won kargil with INSAS.
Arsalan
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You can ask this in a message on his wall or tag him in members club to ask such questions.
This is NOT A PLACE for such questions.
Nilgiri
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If he doesn't like it, he can report the post. Mods can delete it/edit it if they so desire.
He deserves that question in full view of everyone given the level of maturity he has illustrated in his posts so far.
It is not like I have used any racist or bad language with him.
Some people in earlier threads have even questioned his nationality...are those people supposed to be silenced too?
Arsalan
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Actually, it works the other way around. IF YOU DON'T LIKE HIS POSTS, it is you who who should report it to the mods who can then "delete it/edit it if they so desire". instead of posting personal and insulting remarks. We all know what you meant by that question.
This is a discussion thread, not a personal chit chat forum, if you want to know his age ask him in private or tag him in the members club. This is not thread for such posts.
Lets stay on topic guys
halupridol
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its a mediocre chai biskut organisation but its what we got,,,apna khota sikka
SRP
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Now you have gone full retarded. Does anyone from Lockheed martin or Boeing got killed fighting terrorists ?
dray
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Respected @Indian Patriot (??)
Check these threads for a long list of what DRDO has achieved so far. Hope this will satisfy your thirst for knowledge about DRDO and its achievements.
Made in India military weapons and support systems
Indian Missiles News & Discussions
@Arsalan I hope this post meets the minimum standard of pdf. I am keeping my fingers crossed!
Check these threads for a long list of what DRDO has achieved so far. Hope this will satisfy your thirst for knowledge about DRDO and its achievements.
Made in India military weapons and support systems
Indian Missiles News & Discussions
@Arsalan I hope this post meets the minimum standard of pdf. I am keeping my fingers crossed!
thesolar65
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SRP
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Some DRDO achievements
1) ballistic missiles including submarine launched. ( check how many countries have that capability)
2) Brahmos cruise missile
3) Different type of Radars and sonar systems
4) INSAS Rifle and its variants.
5) Electronic Warfare Suite
6) Explosive Detection Kit ( EDK): It would be license manufactured and sold in USA.
7) Indian CL-20 explosive
8) Pinaka rocket system
9) Many UAV's
10) Chemical Kit for Detection of Explosives (CKDE): The kit yields a colour reaction, based on which explosives can be detected in minutes.
11) Artillery systems.
12) Tank armament
13) Arjun tank
14) Command and control software and decision making tools
15) Engineering Vehicles
16) Akash SAM
17) NAG ATGM
18) Astra BVR missile
19) Anti Ballistic missile project
20) Helis and fighter aircraft
And many more.
Yes they have failed in many projects but we don't have any other options. Don't bash DRDO for the sake of bashing.
1) ballistic missiles including submarine launched. ( check how many countries have that capability)
2) Brahmos cruise missile
3) Different type of Radars and sonar systems
4) INSAS Rifle and its variants.
5) Electronic Warfare Suite
6) Explosive Detection Kit ( EDK): It would be license manufactured and sold in USA.
7) Indian CL-20 explosive
8) Pinaka rocket system
9) Many UAV's
10) Chemical Kit for Detection of Explosives (CKDE): The kit yields a colour reaction, based on which explosives can be detected in minutes.
11) Artillery systems.
12) Tank armament
13) Arjun tank
14) Command and control software and decision making tools
15) Engineering Vehicles
16) Akash SAM
17) NAG ATGM
18) Astra BVR missile
19) Anti Ballistic missile project
20) Helis and fighter aircraft
And many more.
Yes they have failed in many projects but we don't have any other options. Don't bash DRDO for the sake of bashing.
Last edited:
Arsalan
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It does, nothing wrong with it. I never said that what Indian patriot is saying is right or what Nilgiri said is wrong, or otherwise!Respected @Indian Patriot (??)
Check these threads for a long list of what DRDO has achieved so far. Hope this will satisfy your thirst for knowledge about DRDO and its achievements.
Made in India military weapons and support systems
Indian Missiles News & Discussions
@Arsalan I hope this post meets the minimum standard of pdf. I am keeping my fingers crossed!
In fact, you must check the posts where i confirmed that i what Nilgiri claims is right. However there is a way to do everything. What was right in that post i appreciated and agreed with it, what was wrong there i have to point that out as well. So instead on disagreeing with anyone and everyone just because of there flag it is better we all move on with a constructive debate and try to learn from the discussion. No need to be sarcastic and no need for getting personal with anyone.
what else there is to know about other then s**t?OP tagged only one Indian and that too the gentleman @nairand other three know s**t about DRDO!!
I am here to learn and educate myself on different new topics. I never claimed that i know about DROD so i never agreed or disagreed with what Indian Patriot said. I think same goes for the other members as well. We are here to learn and i feel no shame if that knowledge is coming from an Indian or anyone else, i don't know about you why you are here, i am not sure even though this post of yours gives us a good idea.
Rated negative for personal attack on myself and three other members with no provocation at all. @Slav Defence . We Neither agreed with what the OP was saying so such offensive posts make no sense.
dray
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Probably you haven't encountered the concerned OP before, otherwise you would have known that his only job in this forum is to keep on repeating the same thing over and over and over again completely ignoring all the facts presented to him, and this is probably the 1000th time he is doing this in his 9 months of participation here. People react to him in a certain manner for a reason, for him a constructive discussion is repeating the same set of sentences against every reply, these same discussions about DRDOs tanks, rifles, jets, missiles, etc. have already happened with him several times! If he was here to learn, then he would have learned already and moved on to different discussions or more informed and specific discussions on this topic, rather than opening another non-specific "DRDO is worthless" thread.
PARIKRAMA
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Everybody is entitled to have opinions. For some DRDO work is awesome , for some a good achievement, for some moderate and for others not upto mark.. So it depends from which side you are seeing really..
As such its true that DRDO did achieve awesome results in multiple projects but delivered major letdowns in many others..
Chiefly one must understand whats the best challenges to DRDO really not doing in projects which are at times very critical in nature
1. Money- The amount of money that India really spends in R&D is much less than perhaps other nations who have achieved far more self reliance domestically. We must not forget India real economic boom is more in last 20 years or so.. You cannot expect India of 1970s 1980s spending a big proportion in research projects.
Strangely, even now we have still not poured a descent amount as % of GDP in R&D. That is one area which is always a big issue
2. First Time Experience: Most of the projects DRDO is making is not reverse engineering but rather first time developing implying more of greenfield in nature. These kind of projects will have the 4 risks running from External, Industrial, Internal and Financial Risks at any point of time. Thus, what we are getting as results and failures are part of learning curve.
3. Time and Technology: A very important point indeed as some times the efficacy of achieving the success in DRDO projects is lost as the time and technology has advanced. Numerous times, projects midway needs course correction to be in line with whats really the latest or last but latest technology of present times. This does create a much longer gestation period. At times we are dependent on many technological things from abroad and that creates a bigger issue if there is a push to deny India technology due to any reason. Such stories messes up the entire project timelines in a big way,
4. Effective Management team for Projects and revolutionary leaders: Not all project teams are good at project mgmt skills . India did not clone APJ Kalam Sir or else guys like him at the helm of different projects could have resulted in much better results and success stories. At times, we also lack the best manpower available. Not bcz of the lack of talent pool but rather due to financial assistance to a employee in PSU vs Private sector, Over time india had corrected that with numerous Pay revisions but such fat corrections are more relevant in Banks and oil companies much less in places like DRDO or Def PSU's
5. Comparing different eggs and yardstick: As we see the success of Indian Missile program and Indian Space program we tend to feel that DRDO is let down in other programs. The same yardstick rule and comparing a missile success to an Supersonic aircraft success is wrong. Its not that both systems are not complex. But at different point of times due to various factors like few mentioned in point 1-4 can have critical impact. An example is that for missile the tech is more inhouse but in LCA, we got partial success for the heart of the bird - the Kaveri program. Again, point 1 - Money was not that much available to be pumped in every critical technology R&D.. Its just an example i am giving.
6. Too many projects: Success in few makes DRDO become too ambitious and take too many projects over time. This effectively divided the best brain and their respective manpower thereby running not parallel processing but rather an overloaded quest for parallel processing in projects. Result is based on priority certain projects gets a go ahead and certain are delayed. But we only see that project X got delayed for so many years not understanding why GOI did not say pls do what you are having atm and concentrate on those projects ONLY. Later you can expand your portfolio when some projects are executed and passed on to production.
Thus, my feeling is its a mixed bag for DRDO. With limited budget and shoe string R&D spending whatever it has achieved is quite remarkable. But for India to be self sufficient many critical program needs a urgency and a budget to match R&D spendings with developed nations or even China. The effective project management skills and identification of future leaders needs to be done more and needs to be groomed to find more Kalams who can change ethe fate of projects and lead Men/Women to efficient team performance.
Dont get colored by Tejas or Arjun or INSAS or Extreme cold weather gears. Developing all this in house requires time and money and factors as discussed above.
The only hope (and urgent need) is that DRDO dont slowdown more in coming days and gears up to be a robust organisation spearheading the nations requirement in a big way.
As such its true that DRDO did achieve awesome results in multiple projects but delivered major letdowns in many others..
Chiefly one must understand whats the best challenges to DRDO really not doing in projects which are at times very critical in nature
1. Money- The amount of money that India really spends in R&D is much less than perhaps other nations who have achieved far more self reliance domestically. We must not forget India real economic boom is more in last 20 years or so.. You cannot expect India of 1970s 1980s spending a big proportion in research projects.
Strangely, even now we have still not poured a descent amount as % of GDP in R&D. That is one area which is always a big issue
2. First Time Experience: Most of the projects DRDO is making is not reverse engineering but rather first time developing implying more of greenfield in nature. These kind of projects will have the 4 risks running from External, Industrial, Internal and Financial Risks at any point of time. Thus, what we are getting as results and failures are part of learning curve.
3. Time and Technology: A very important point indeed as some times the efficacy of achieving the success in DRDO projects is lost as the time and technology has advanced. Numerous times, projects midway needs course correction to be in line with whats really the latest or last but latest technology of present times. This does create a much longer gestation period. At times we are dependent on many technological things from abroad and that creates a bigger issue if there is a push to deny India technology due to any reason. Such stories messes up the entire project timelines in a big way,
4. Effective Management team for Projects and revolutionary leaders: Not all project teams are good at project mgmt skills . India did not clone APJ Kalam Sir or else guys like him at the helm of different projects could have resulted in much better results and success stories. At times, we also lack the best manpower available. Not bcz of the lack of talent pool but rather due to financial assistance to a employee in PSU vs Private sector, Over time india had corrected that with numerous Pay revisions but such fat corrections are more relevant in Banks and oil companies much less in places like DRDO or Def PSU's
5. Comparing different eggs and yardstick: As we see the success of Indian Missile program and Indian Space program we tend to feel that DRDO is let down in other programs. The same yardstick rule and comparing a missile success to an Supersonic aircraft success is wrong. Its not that both systems are not complex. But at different point of times due to various factors like few mentioned in point 1-4 can have critical impact. An example is that for missile the tech is more inhouse but in LCA, we got partial success for the heart of the bird - the Kaveri program. Again, point 1 - Money was not that much available to be pumped in every critical technology R&D.. Its just an example i am giving.
6. Too many projects: Success in few makes DRDO become too ambitious and take too many projects over time. This effectively divided the best brain and their respective manpower thereby running not parallel processing but rather an overloaded quest for parallel processing in projects. Result is based on priority certain projects gets a go ahead and certain are delayed. But we only see that project X got delayed for so many years not understanding why GOI did not say pls do what you are having atm and concentrate on those projects ONLY. Later you can expand your portfolio when some projects are executed and passed on to production.
Thus, my feeling is its a mixed bag for DRDO. With limited budget and shoe string R&D spending whatever it has achieved is quite remarkable. But for India to be self sufficient many critical program needs a urgency and a budget to match R&D spendings with developed nations or even China. The effective project management skills and identification of future leaders needs to be done more and needs to be groomed to find more Kalams who can change ethe fate of projects and lead Men/Women to efficient team performance.
Dont get colored by Tejas or Arjun or INSAS or Extreme cold weather gears. Developing all this in house requires time and money and factors as discussed above.
The only hope (and urgent need) is that DRDO dont slowdown more in coming days and gears up to be a robust organisation spearheading the nations requirement in a big way.
Arsalan
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I have and i have also almost always argued with his PoV, cleared that i don't think DROD is a bunch of 5hit as he likes to think. There have been dozens of time where i was the one pointing out that his particular point against DRDO holds no weight and that particular technology is something that DRDO and Indians should be proud of. However, all that do not mean that i can take matter into my own hands and start throwing jibes at him personally. If you have objection to his PoV, disagree with it in a civilized manner, support your argument with facts and if no other options, report it to MODs, all i am saying again and again is DON'T GET PERSONAL, is it so hard for your people to understand?Probably you haven't encountered the concerned OP before, otherwise you would have known that his only job in this forum is to keep on repeating the same thing over and over and over again completely ignoring all the facts presented to him, and this is probably the 1000th time he is doing this in his 9 months of participation here. People react to him in a certain manner for a reason, for him a constructive discussion is repeating the same set of sentences against every reply, these same discussions about DRDOs tanks, rifles, jets, missiles, etc. have already happened with him several times! If he was here to learn, then he would have learned already and moved on to different discussions or more informed and specific discussions on this topic, rather than opening another non-specific "DRDO is worthless" thread.
TAKE THIS POST AS AN EXAMPLE WILL YOU?
DRDO - Boon or Bane? | Page 2
Nilgiri
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A fine sentiment to have, it needs to be enforced more for people to pay attention. Mods only step in now when really bad language is being used...they cannot be wrist slapping the minor infractions.....or this guy (Indian patriot) would have been sorted a long time ago.
But out of deference to you (you seem like a good, open-minded chap) I will not poke fun at this troll anymore in this thread.
A new thread however is a whole new day
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