Downgraded Version for Turkey? Israel and U.S. Hold Talks on Withholding Vital F-35 Software From An

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

Tiny Israel is not weak and you're talking about a war that is over 50 years ago, no longer relevant and not a reflection of today's Arab armies.

Yemen is a very large country with tough terrain and a large population as well.

Turkish military history does NOT include 'lots of succeafull operations', if we look at modern day Turkish military history it did not face a large conventional foe for you to make such a statement. Cyprus was the only 'country' which Turkey fought alone which infact is a tiny island, close to Turkey geographically and far away from Greece (which is another tiny country). It's like me parading around here how Iraq captured Kuwait in 24 hours, do you think there's anything great about that? Then once TAF faced a small ISIS canton in northern Syria we saw large losses and tanks being taken by ISIS which pointed out the weakness in strategy, planning and the lack of experience.

You and your fellow friends are banking on nationalism and feeding that with anti-Arabism to state your military superiority, anyone with half a brain knows that is not how it works.

The factual difference... People in The Turkish Republic of Norther Cyprus, aka, Turks live in peace since 1974, can you say the same for Palestine, Iraq,Yemen,Egypt etc.?

I do not want to engage in this troll fest, a lot waiting to tell but, no point.

 

[azyr]

You are asking a loaded question. Technically speaking, it is 'doable', but not wise to implement. There lies the problem. For the conspiracy theorist, if it is technically possible, then it must have been done. After all, the US is 'evil' and want to screw everybody.

This argument have been around for decades started with the F-16 since it was the first international jet fighter designed for countries that cannot afford the scale of an air force like the US has. When I was active duty and on the F-16 at MacDill AFB, we heard all versions of the theory. Everything from foreign F-16s being shut off via satellites to secret agents sneaking into hangars and reprogram the jet's avionics to allow US to take remote control. Nonsense straight out of Mission: Impossible.

Politically, it would be a bomb, no pun intended. No one would trust US, or the Russians or the Chinese for that matter. No allies. Only potential adversaries. With no foreign sales, per aircraft cost for domestic defense would skyrocket. Just because they need you does not mean you take their defense any less serious than your own.

This is a great reply straight from the horses mouth (so to speak). While I've never subscribed to any variation of these theories (technical difficulties in the F16 era and political suicide for the rest) the F35 does seem to have an Achilles heel in regards to how it has to be serviced.

AFAIK due to the interpolability the aircraft was designed to maintain it has to be "always on and connected" to a NATO structure at all times. The NATO connection requires a daily refresh IIRC and failing to maintain one would essentially transform the plane into a dumb weapons platform. Now I might be mistaken about the details or event the whole structure here, so please feel free to correct me if this is so.

Another concern is the frequency of service requirements, which is to be expected with this degree of complexity. The problem here lies in the fact that the F35 is a state of the art jet that is the cusp of all the militaries in the world that it will service - including the US. Hence servicing is very strict and it mainly comes down to "order the part from Lockheed and swap it". The tech is highly sensitive so servicing centers (including the motor servicing center in Turkey) aren't given any leeway to produce or recreate and solutions in this regard. Again, I might be slightly off in this area too, but I think I've got the gist of it right.

All in all, while these two scenarios weren't artificially created to hamper the plane, combined they still contribute to an essential soft kill-switch. You could have mostly inoperable planes within a month if you're cut off from supplies and NATO communications.

So yea, for countries that are not strictly under the US command chain and have varying degrees of national interests that actually collide with her, this is worrisome.

 

[Saddam Hussein]

The factual difference... People in The Turkish Republic of Norther Cyprus, aka, Turks live in peace since 1974, can you say the same for Palestine, Iraq,Yemen,Egypt etc.?

I do not want to engage in this troll fest, a lot waiting to tell but, no point.

Totally irrelevant, we're not talking about peace and stability. Peace and wars come and go.

 

[gambit]

...the F35 does seem to have an Achilles heel in regards to how it has to be serviced.

Why do we need increasingly sophisticated arms? Because we want to win. Simple as that.

If you are a conqueror, you want to win. If you are the defense, you want to win. No difference between the two in that regard.

So the more sophisticated the weaponry, the more sophisticated the maintenance, which in turn requires a more educated and technically trained human force. This is not news to the F-35's international partners. When they chose to enter the pact, they knew exactly what is required of them once the jet is in their hands.

 

[maximuswarrior]

Turkish industry is able to upgrade US made F-16 fighters to latest generation standarts in terms of avionics, mission computer, IFF and self protection suits. In ths aspect, Discussing about likely downgraded variant F-35 fighters to Turkey While Turkish industry is also working as partner of this aircraft is nonsense. Downgraded variant may be possible for some gulf states but not possible for Turkey.

Do you think the Turks are be able to thwart pressure being mounted by US senators and Israel?

Surely Turkey participated and invested in the F-35 program, but the US has a dodgy track record. Especially when it has to please its little puppy Israel. Trump is hardly reliable. His statements change on an hourly basis.

What if Turkey receives a watered-down version of F-35?

 

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

Totally irrelevant, we're not talking about peace and stability. Peace and wars come and go.

When it comes and goes, and why never stops by aformentioned countries and their citizens?

 

[Faith_of_the_Fallen]

Do you think the Turks are be able to thwart pressure being mounted by US senators and Israel?

Surely Turkey participated and invested in the F-35 program, but the US has a dodgy track record. Especially when it has to please its little puppy Israel. Trump is hardly reliable. His statements change on an hourly basis.

What if Turkey receives a watered-down version of F-35?

There is no way US will allow Israel's military edge to be challenged by any country in the region. US state is full of evangelists, this is their state policy; therefore it is funny that people still view Israel-US organic relations as mere speculation. Unless Turkey does not make up with Israel, keep her silence (about Israel slowly but steadily chasing Palestinians from their homes by a long term state policy); US will continue to have excuses for f-35 program. S-400 excuse for f-35 technology theft concern is a blatantly empty argument. Israel f35s have been flying in the range of S400s numerious times. On top of that, it would be plainly foolish for Turkey to pay billions of dollars to build f35 fleet while supplying Russians with critical information about their f35s vulnerability. These arguments strengthen my belief that US senate is nothing but a platform for senators to play politics. These politics and the drive to gain votes even to the detriment of oversimplification of governmental issues and popularism show us that perhaps democracy is not what we thought it would be.

 

[Nein]

Just like how the Ottomans bought some ships from the British only to have their money taken and their ships confiscated.

I would suggest Turkey not taking the West or Russia too bad they are not strong enough to stand on its own.

 

[cabatli_53]

Do you think the Turks are be able to thwart pressure being mounted by US senators and Israel?

Surely Turkey participated and invested in the F-35 program, but the US has a dodgy track record. Especially when it has to please its little puppy Israel. Trump is hardly reliable. His statements change on an hourly basis.

What if Turkey receives a watered-down version of F-35?

As you said Turkey is a partner state funding F35 program since the 2000’s when It was just in design phase on paper. Turkish engineers are involved and institutes are actively producing sections for main contractor LockhedMartin, Raytheon and GM. Turkey is also engine maintenance center of own region for all F35 costumers locating in this region. In that aspect, Turkish industry is also matured enough to reveal own competitive cockpit, avionics, munitions, flight and mission control hardware and softwares solutions to apply indigenous programs. It is the reason we are in that program and proceeding to develop own products so;

In previous pages, I pointed out that Turkey should never be compared with 3rd World non-developed corrupt states ruled with monarchial brains who think to buy anything they want with money. Besides, It is not those trolls’ business put to my country into center to make a bad perception operation with mixing everything with their tiny brains. If they had some honour, They would have never supported the faults of their corrupt guys and make a simple critisizm or keep their silence at least instead of trolling 7/24 about Turkish indigenous programs. Historical hatred and jealousy of wahabi culture make them crazy about Turkey because they also know that Turkey is in a league that they can never be inside so they have a tendency to make a pissing contest or bashing threads whenever they found an opportunity to do but all their points is about money, not about science, technology or R&D. What those guys miss that Turkey is not an ordinary state begging US to purchase those fighters like famous puppets do with paying more than original price for downgraded variants. We want what we paid/paying and producing while developing own 5th generation fighters along with CAS fighter project. Turkish institutes has a production share of more than 10 billion $ for fighters placed order. Those are what they promised for us.

About actual subject, The main contractors on international projects promise project partners to meet their requirements with a common platform which is going to serve as a backbone of all partners. Main contractor can not apply some changes on hardware/software on platform in paralel to politic wishes If It is not included in main frame agreement of collaboration. Obeying the general principles of international agreements are a prohibition so US can not offer a downgraded variant to project partners but they keep intellectual and property rights of platform in their hands so It is their desicion not to deliver figters to Turkey in accordance with their working system while they consider +\- of relations to be broken with Turkey. That’s as simple as that.

 

[Dalit]

As you said Turkey is a partner state funding F35 program since the 2000’s when It was just in design phase on paper. Turkish engineers are involved and institutes are actively producing sections for main contractor LockhedMartin, Raytheon and GM. Turkey is also main engine maintenance center of own region for all F35 costumers in region. In that aspect, Turkish industry is also matured enough to reveal own competitive cockpit, avionics, munitions, flight and mission control hardware and softwares solutions to apply indigenous programs. It is the reason we are in that program and proceeding to develop own products so;

In previous pages, I pointed out that Turkey should never be compared with 3rd World non-developed corrupt states ruled with monarchial brains who think to buy anything they want with money. Besides, It is not those trolls’ business put my country into center to make a bad perception operation with mixing everything with their tiny brains. If they had some honour, They would never support the faults of their corrupt guys and make a simple critisizm or keep their silence at least instead of trolling 7/24 about Turkish indigenous programs. Historical hatret and jealous of wahabi culture make them crazy about Turkey because they also know that Turkey is in a league that they can never be inside so they have a tendency to make a pissing contest or bashing threads whenever they found an opportunity to do but all their points is about money, not about science, technology or R&D. In additions, Turkey is not an ordinary state begging US to purchase those fighters. We want what we paid/paying and producing while developing own 5th generation fighters along with CAS fighter project. Turkish institutes has a production share of more than 10 billion $ for fighters placed order. Those are what they promised for us.

About actual subject, The main contractors on international projects promise project partners to meet their requirements with a common platform which is going to serve as a backbone of all partners. Main contractor can not apply some changes on hardware/software on platform in paralel to politic wishes If It is not included in main frame agreement of collaboration. Obeying the general principles of international agreements are a prohibition so US can not offer a downgraded variant to project partners but they keep intellectual and property rights of platform in their hands so It is their desicion not to deliver figters to Turkey in accordance with their working system while they consider +\- of relations to be broken with Turkey. That’s as simple as that.

MashAllah. Excellent post brother.

Turkey is expected to do well as it always has.

 

[Fenasi Kerim]

wtf is even a downgraded version of F35 LOL stupid Arab and Israeli trolls, Turkey will get its hands on these planes go cry a river somewhere.

Im sure they will say "America will have a red button to bring the planes down" once Turkey gets hold of it lol.

 

[Inspector Spacetime]

@cabatli_53 is it possible for me to private message you?

 

[帅的一匹]

Nope as Turkey is not the same as the other European nations.

Remember Turkey will never be allowed into the EU despite the fact that it's economy is much better than a lot of the countries that have already been allowed in.

EU wont accept Muslim state.

 

[UKBengali]

EU wont accept Muslim state.

Add in racism as well.

 

[Adıvar]

EU wont accept Muslim state.

Religion is not the only reason.