Downgraded Version for Turkey? Israel and U.S. Hold Talks on Withholding Vital F-35 Software From An

[Saif al-Arab]

Turkish industry is able to upgrade US made F-16 fighters to latest generation standarts in terms of avionics, mission computer, IFF and self protection suits. In ths aspect, Discussing about likely downgraded variant F-35 fighters to Turkey While Turkish industry is also working as partner of this aircraft is nonsense. Downgraded variant may be possible for some gulf states but not possible for Turkey.

The GCC militaries have never bought downgraded fighter jets or any strategic weapons.

In fact the Saudi Arabian F-15SA is the most sophisticated version out there and several parts of it are made inside KSA by Saudi Arabians.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1014491383745470464

This Is A Fully Armed F-15SA, The Most Advanced Production Eagle Ever

https://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/this-is-a-fully-armed-f-15sa-the-most-advanced-product-1715732294

Arab states will get the F-35 as well. Within 5 years.

Meanwhile UAE is working with Russia on the production of a new fifth-generation fighter jet and KSA is working with China (secretly) on a similar project as per Chinese and Saudi Arabian (well-informed) media.

Unlike for certain others in the region, money won't ever be a problem for us either nor are we bound by some alliances which is why we can buy the S-400 from Russia without the US even barking once.

Nice troll attempt though.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

why we can buy the S-400 from Russia without the US even barking once.

BS. Saudi Arabia will never buy Russia military hardware anytime soon. America won't allow.

Russia: Saudi Arabia bowed to US, abandons S-400 air defence system deal

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/2...to-us-abandons-s-400-air-defence-system-deal/

 

[Saif al-Arab]

BS. Saudi Arabia will never buy Russia military hardware anytime soon. America won't allow.

Russia: Saudi Arabia bowed to US, abandons S-400 air defence system deal

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/2...to-us-abandons-s-400-air-defence-system-deal/

Stop quoting idiotic Qatari regime mouthpieces (Middle East Monitor) Superboy cretin.

Here is PissTV (Iranian Mullah regime mouthpiece) in action the 1st June 2018.

https://www.presstv.com/Detail/2018...ssile-system-S400-Yemen-United-States-patriot

When MbS was in Moscow last month a deal was signed.

Talks were complicated due to demands of tech transfer but I believe a compromise was stuck.

http://www.janes.com/article/77731/saudi-s-400-talks-complicated-by-tech-transfer

KSA will also get THAAD! So KSA will have the patriot system (proven at war in the past 3.5 years), S-400 and THAAD. Does not get any better than this!

Downgraded my ***. All the 3 main powers (USA, Russia and China) are waiting on a line to deal with KSA especially after the local arms industry is booming (compared to previous times) and the goal by 2030 is to be 50% self-sufficient. So they want to take part in this.

Most recently Spain joined and offered 60% localization in KSA when deals with Navantia were signed!

Saudi Military Industries signs warships JV, corvettes with Spain’s Navantia

SAMI has signed a JV Agreement for the design and construction of five Avante 2200 corvettes, above, with the Spanish state-owned shipbuilding company Navantia. (Courtesy Navantia)

ARAB NEWS
July 19, 2018

• The program will start this autumn with the last unit to be delivered by 2022
• The contract will generate 6,000 direct and indirect jobs for five years

RIYADH: State-owned Saudi Arabian Military Industries (SAMI) signed an agreement with Spain’s Navantia to set up a joint venture in the Kingdom to build five warships, the state news agency SPA reported on Thursday.
The deal is part of a wider framework agreed in April by Spain and Saudi Arabia for Spanish state-owned shipbuilder Navantia to supply warships to the Gulf Arab state under a deal estimated to be worth around 1.8 billion euros ($2.2 billion).

SPA said the agreement between SAMI and Navantia was for the design and construction of five Avante 2200 Corvettes under a program that would start this autumn, with the last unit due to be delivered by 2022. It gave no value for the deal.
In line with the contract, SAMI said the joint venture would “localize more than 60 percent of ships combat systems works,” including installation and integration in the Saudi market, perfectly aligned with the Kingdom’s Vision 2030, by localizing 50% of total military spending by 2030.
The contract will generate 6,000 direct and indirect jobs for five years, as follows: 1,100 direct jobs, more than 1,800 from the auxiliary industry, and more than 3,000 indirect jobs generated by other suppliers.
In this respect, the JV will focus on program management and combat system integration and installation, system engineering, system architecture, hardware design, software development, testing and verification, prototyping, simulation, modelling, and through-life support.
Ahmed Al-Khateeb, Chairman of Saudi Arabian Military Industries, said: “SAMI remains committed to being a key enabler of the Saudi Vision 2030, and the establishment of this Joint Venture with Navantia will localize more than 60% of ship combat systems work including, installation, and integration, which contribute to the Kingdom’s objective to be at the forefront of shaping the local military industries ecosystem. We will continue to explore collaborations and leverage partnerships that meet our key mandate to localize more than half of the Kingdom’s total military spending.”
Esteban Garcia Vilasanchez, Chairman of Navantia, said: “Navantia is very happy with the signature of this contract that means a starting point for the collaboration with Saudi Arabia. Navantia is committed to contributing to Saudi Vision 2030 and will support the country in this endeavour. The JV between SAMI and Navantia is an opportunity to develop capabilities in the country and jointly explore future opportunities.”
For the Avante 2200 contract, the JV will be responsible, among others, of supplying the Combat System of all five ships. Corvettes 4th and 5th will be finalized and delivered to the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, where the JV will do the installation, integration and test of the complete Combat System.

Saudi Arabia’s top sovereign wealth fund, the Public Investment Fund (PIF), launched SAMI last year as part of a government plan to diversify the economy, reduce reliance on oil export revenues and create jobs.
SAMI aims to contribute more than 14 billion riyals ($3.7 billion) to the country’s gross domestic product by 2030, according to SPA.

http://www.arabnews.com/node/1341746/saudi-arabia

El contrato con Arabia beneficiar a todos los astilleros de Navantia

12/07/2018

El Gobierno de Arabia Saudí ha firmado el contrato para la construcción de cinco corbetas, una operación que alcanza un importe de 1.800 millones de euros y que representa la mayor de la historia de los astilleros públicos españoles con un cliente extranjero. Este contrato fortalece el futuro inmediato de NAVANTIA y beneficiará a todos los astilleros de la compañía.

La firma de este contrato con Arabia va a beneficiar a toda la plantilla de NAVANTIA, a la industria local con la que colabora y, en especial, a toda la Bahía de Cádiz, lo que explica que haya recibido apoyos desde todos los ámbitos de la Administración. Esta importante operación pone también en valor la presencia internacional de la compañía ya que la sitúa en un área fundamental para el desarrollo de nuevos programas.

NAVANTIA es una compañía estratégica ya que cuenta con capacidades, instalaciones y áreas de conocimiento que son considerados esenciales para la Defensa y la Seguridad Nacional. Se trata de aspectos que están siendo considerados en el nuevo Plan Estratégico, que son compartidos también por los representantes de los trabajadores y que, además, van a ayudar a impulsar los proyectos de innovación y transformación digital orientados a reforzar la competitividad.

Este contrato, que se ha estado negociando con el reino de Arabia Saudí desde el año 2015, supondrá una carga de trabajo global de alrededor de siete millones de horas para los astilleros de Bahía de Cádiz, Ría de Ferrol y Cartagena y su industria auxiliar. Es, por lo tanto, un contrato clave para garantizar la actividad de trabajo de Navantia, principalmente para sus astilleros de Bahía de Cádiz. El programa arrancará a finales de 2018 y el último buque deberá entregarse en el 2022. Además, NAVANTIA será responsable del Apoyo al Ciclo de Vida durante cinco años, desde la entrega del primer buque, con opción a otros cinco años adicionales.

En cuanto a su impacto en empleo, se calcula que durante 5 años se generarán anualmente cerca de 6.000 ocupados directos e indirectos. De ellos, más de 1.100 serán empleados directos, más de 1.800 empleados de la Industria Auxiliar de Navantia y más de 3.000 empleados indirectos generados por otros suministradores.

Además, consolida internacionalmente a la Compañía y en especial a este producto con un sistema de combate propio, que puede satisfacer las necesidades de otros potenciales clientes en la región y en otros mercados de interés.

Suministro completo e integral

Las corbetas estarán basadas en el Avante 2200 y adaptadas a los requisitos de la Marina de Arabia Saudí, ofreciendo avanzadas prestaciones, entre las que destacan un excelente comportamiento en la mar, alta capacidad de supervivencia y capacidad de operación a temperaturas extremas de la zona del Golfo, todo ello con un coste de ciclo de vida óptimo.

El diseño de las corbetas es de última generación, maximizando a la vez la participación de Navantia incorporando productos propios como el sistema de combate CATIZ, el sistema de comunicaciones integradas HERMESYS, la dirección de tiro DORNA, el Sistema Integrado de Control de Plataforma, el puente integrado MINERVA y los motores y las cajas reductoras.

Por otro lado, el contrato también incluye el suministro de varios servicios tales como, apoyo logístico integrado, adiestramiento operacional y de mantenimiento, suministro de Centros de Formación y Adiestramiento para el Sistema de Combate y Sistema de Control de Plataforma de los buques, Apoyo al Ciclo de Vida, y los sistemas para el mantenimiento de los buques en la Base Naval.

Creación de una Joint Venture con SAMI

Además del contrato de corbetas, Navantia ha acordado con la empresa estatal saudí SAMI (Saudi Arabian Military Industries) la creación de una Joint Venture (JV) en Arabia Saudí.

Esta alianza beneficia a NAVANTIA y permite potenciar los programas de defensa en Arabia Saudí reforzando su economía en línea con la Visión 2030 promovida por el Gobierno de este país.

Esta Joint Venture supone una oportunidad excepcional para posicionar los sistemas integrados y soluciones tecnológicamente avanzadas de Navantia en el mercado de Arabia y su área de influencia, y está alineada con la estrategia de internacionalización de la compañía.

Ver vídeos:

https://www.navantia.es/noticia.php?id_noti=466

You can continue your usual trolling for all I care.

This little statistic should tell everything about the ongoing industrialization in KSA and the pace of it.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1004399954067099648

 

[Liquidmetal]

the lesson is that the USA will never be a sincere friend to any Muslim nation. There is deep hostility to the last message and their desperate and poorly educated masses are bible thumped into hating Islam, Muslims and actually the Jews too but need them for the final solution aka the second coming.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

Arab nations are good as long as they obey the US. Once they don't. Watch out.

As far as I am aware Arabs are the ones that have fought the US and its child (Israel) more than anyone else and hurt the USA more since the Japanese in WW2 as well.

Arabs already crashed the Western/US financial system in the 1970's during the oil embargo. No other Muslim country can or is able to do something similar.

The US as a superpower has a say in every country that is not named China or Russia but even it can hurt those countries (economically) as seen with Russia. Or China (trade war).

However the Arab world is not anywhere close to being any vassal of anyone. Maybe outside of Qatar and Bahrain (tiny micro states that hosts large US bases for protection).

Using that logic the entire West is a vassal of the US, Turkey, Pakistan and most Muslim countries outside of certain pariah states.

If being a vassal to the undisputed superpower on this earth means having a trade volume surplus for decades with it, buying the best weapons that money can buy, have the opportunity to send 100.000’s of thousands (throughout the ages) students to leading universities in the world (USA), having many business, educational, infrastructural, scientific ties, I have nothing against being a supposed vassal, LOL. No sane person would!

I don’t like everything that the US does (far from it) but would I prefer senseless hostility over cordial ties? Only a moron would.

@The Eagle @waz

How many troll posts is @Superboy and 100's of other permanently banned users going to post before he is dealt with again? He is spamming this entire section with nonsense and trolls every thread.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

@The Eagle @waz

How many troll posts is @Superboy and 100's of other permanently banned users going to post before he is dealt with again? He is spamming this entire section with nonsense and trolls every thread.

WTF? If you cared to pay attention I deleted my post before you quoted my post. I do not get involved in middle eastern politics. I'm Chinese Canadian immigrant. It ain't my concern or business.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

WTF? If you cared to pay attention I deleted my post before you quoted my post. I do not get involved in middle eastern politics. I'm Chinese Canadian immigrant. It ain't my concern or business.

If you are a Chinese Canadian immigrant I am an Polynesian Canadian immigrant of Madagascan ancestry.



Is that why you are creating 100's of threads on this section related to Arab affairs and trolling nonstop? Everyone knows that you are Superboy and tons of previously permanently banned users (due to trolling).

You have some issues for sure. Hiding your real identity as well. What I have noticed is that KSA gives you tremendous butthurt. Long may it continue.

I smell a crypto-Mullah dog.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

If you are a Chinese Canadian immigrant I am an Polynesian Canadian immigrant of Madagascan ancestry.



Is that why you are creating 100's of threads on this section related to Arab affairs and trolling nonstop? Everyone knows that you are Superboy and tons of previously permanently banned users (due to trolling).

You have some issues for sure. Hiding your real identity as well. What I have noticed is that KSA gives you tremendous butthurt. Long may it continue.

What makes you care about middle eastern politics? I care about military hardware and wars. It's my hobby.

Anyway back to the topic. IMO Turkey isn't getting any F-35 at all. Just a hunch. Cozying up to Russia isn't going to sit well with the American establishment.

 

[The Accountant]

"disrupting the jets’ operational capabilities remotely" well it's a serious issue ... how much it could be disturbed remotely? could it ground the entire fleet?

I don't think US will plan a bug in software

Is there in the contract , Thou Shall not Modify the software ,on your plan ?
the worst think I can think of is that they'll not get any new software for them anymore

Generally this is the clause for nation having shaky relationship with US ... Pakistani f16s have it in contract and in case of turkish f35 apparently there is a high probablity of puting such a clause ...

 

[Timur]

the lesson is that the USA will never be a sincere friend to any Muslim nation. There is deep hostility to the last message and their desperate and poorly educated masses are bible thumped into hating Islam, Muslims and actually the Jews too but need them for the final solution aka the second coming.

the real thing is any western nation are no friend... the kuffar are preparing for a final showdown and muslims are killing each other

 

[The SC]

I don't think US will plan a bug in software

Generally this is the clause for nation having shaky relationship with US ... Pakistani f16s have it in contract and in case of turkish f35 apparently there is a high probablity of puting such a clause ...

This is worst than any contract clause.. this is the closest thing to a real kill switch than ever imagined before.. this is the real thing..It is called ALIS among other specialised software systems found in the F-35..And guess what.. it is cloud based and controlled from the US .. this is dangerous to the extent that Italy and Norway (both NATO members) have asked for their own firewalls..and Australia has followed suite very recently..It is also an important part of the UAE and KSA negotiations for F-35 with the US..Even Usrael has skipped the whole ALIS system.. and replaced it with its own tiny one that can link with the main one if there is a need to.. but for the rest of NATO and US allies like South Korea and Japan it is a requirement.. up till now anyway..

Here is more about the famous ALIS system/software

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/coul...ion-system-ever-devised.569930/#post-10668491

 

[cabatli_53]

The GCC militaries have never bought downgraded fighter jets or any strategic weapons.

In fact the Saudi Arabian F-15SA is the most sophisticated version out there and several parts of it are made inside KSA by Saudi Arabians.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1014491383745470464

This Is A Fully Armed F-15SA, The Most Advanced Production Eagle Ever

https://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/this-is-a-fully-armed-f-15sa-the-most-advanced-product-1715732294

Arab states will get the F-35 as well. Within 5 years.

Meanwhile UAE is working with Russia on the production of a new fifth-generation fighter jet and KSA is working with China (secretly) on a similar project as per Chinese and Saudi Arabian (well-informed) media.

Unlike for certain others in the region, money won't ever be a problem for us either nor are we bound by some alliances which is why we can buy the S-400 from Russia without the US even barking once.

Nice troll attempt though.

“Most advanced” variant stories are about advertisement and marketing to get your $(Milking). In fact, Noone sell “most advanced” defence toys to costumers who is waiting order from “masters” in foreign affairs and regional events. If It is about Saudi Arabia, US see your puppets like a cow who is waiting to be milked so openly express their intention in front of his face. When they put “SA” describtion to their aircrafts to request 2X more money than original price with “most advanced” stories, You suppose they are superior than anything but In fact, Your “SA” aircrafts are being downed like a fly against 1950 tech Yemeni missile systems. If that is what US most advanced aircraft self protection tech reached in those years, that is a big fiasco for all US aircrafts and costumers but You also know that It is not about US technological level but downgraded variant US defence toys exportes to Saudi Arabia for milking your money with “best” variant stories. It is better tell your “money talks” stories to other guys with bla bla bla words. I am not the one who give a penny what a guy like you are trying to tell with long stories.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

“Most advanced” variant stories are about advertisement and marketing to get your $(Milking). In fact, Noone sell “most advanced” defence toys to costumers who is waiting order from “masters” in foreign affairs and regional events. If It is about Saudi Arabia, US see your puppets like a cow who is waiting to be milked so openly express their intention in front of his face. When they put “SA” describtion to their aircrafts to request 2X more money than original price with “most advanced” stories, You suppose they are superior than anything but In fact, Your “SA” aircrafts are being downed like a fly against 1950 tech Yemeni missile systems. If that is what US most advanced aircraft self protection tech reached in those years, that is a big fiasco for all US aircrafts and costumers but You also know that It is not about US technological level but downgraded variant US defence toys exportes to Saudi Arabia for milking your money with “best” variant stories. It is better tell your “money talks” stories to other guys with bla bla bla words. I am not the one who give a penny what a guy like you are trying to tell with long stories.

Your English is as good as your moronic "arguments". It's quite shocking that you are the Turkish moderator but maybe this is very reflective of what has been going on in Turkey under Erdogan's rule and in particular in recent years.

I find it funny that a countryman of the biggest Western lapdog in the Muslim world (Turkey), a NATO member (a country that only became a NATO member to save it from being swallowed up or becoming a satellite state of the USSR), a country that has been begging to join the EU for 40+ years but has no prospect of joining it despite being economically dependent on the EU, a country whose entire "indigenous" defense industry was and is dependent (to a large degree) by your puppet masters (using your logic), which in other words are the West.

Combining all those facts above and the conclusion is simple. Your post is extremely laughable and hypocritical.

It's not called the "most advanced fighter eagle" for fun or for "marketing purposes" (as your tiny brain imagines) but due to the tech is carries. The price is not much greater than what you pay but as usual I don't expect an ignorant to know anything about this contradictory claim of yours.

Which Saudi Arabian fighter jet have been dawned in Yemen and let alone by 1950's technology? Can the genius, that barely is able to write a coherent sentence in English, educate us all here or is it more bullshitting from your part as usual?

No, indeed, there is no reason to waste my time on you.

@The SC @Gomig-21 @Frogman @OutOfAmmo etc.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

I find it funny that a countryman of the biggest Western lapdog in the Muslim world (Turkey), a NATO member (a country that only became a NATO member to save it from being swallowed up or becoming a satellite state of the USSR)

On the contrary. Greece and Turkey joined NATO at the same time to have peace between Greece and Turkey. Had nothing to do with USSR.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

On the contrary. Greece and Turkey joined NATO at the same time to have peace between Greece and Turkey. Had nothing to do with USSR.

WTF are you blabbering about troll?

Why Is Turkey In NATO?

The decision to allow Greece and Turkey into alliance stemmed largely from Cold War strategies against the Soviet Union. Greece and Turkey (both with firmly anti-Communist governments) were viewed by the West as bulwarks against Moscow and the spread of communism in Europe. Considering that the Korean War was on the horizon, fears of China and Russia expanding their influence into other parts of the world were realized. (Both Greece and Turkey contributed troops to fight in Korea).

“The main purpose for establishing NATO was to counter the threat of USSR / Communist expansion after World War II,” said Dr. Dilshod Achilov of the Department of Political Science, International Affairs And Public Administration East Tennessee State University. “The roots of accepting non-North Atlantic nations into NATO, mainly Greece and Turkey to begin with, lies at the heart of the Truman Doctrine -- extending military and economic aid to states vulnerable to Soviet threat / expansion.”
​

https://www.ibtimes.com/why-turkey-nato-704333

It's common knowledge. My previous points remain.