Doors open for negotiation with US on F-16 deal: Foreign Office

[DESERT FIGHTER]

I agree and would offer two reasons why it has turned sour. The first is the general reason that you pointed out...

Even today US-Pak relations can be amended.. And by that I don't meant only my mil-mil ties rather a public to public sort of approach ...

Increase in trade,some visible investment be it in the educational field or the economic and supporting Pak on some key issues will go a long way at establishing a positive relationship..

The Chinese are favoured despite us having no cultural or even religious similarities (although now thousands of Chinese are working in Pak)...

Because of their non interference policy and investment rather than any other reason..

That has sadly, become the prevailing attitude of most Americans. It is the feeling of most Americans since 9/11 about most Muslim countries. The second, which is specific to Pakistan and confirmed the first in their eyes, is where Osama bin Laden had been living for many years, before we caught up to him. Americans are convinced that Pakistan's government was complicit in hiding him and protecting him.

I don't say those things because I think them right or to offer an American excuse, but only to point out the perspective from the American point of view.

Despit all the halabaloo ISI or Pak in general wouldn't have gained anything by hiding OBL ... At most they had that guy and wanted to trade him to USA (nobody would hand such a big asshole for free)... Or they were themselves clueless ... Even US the sole super power mucked up on 9/11... By shooting those multiple planes you could have saved thousands... Or catching them (hijackers) for that matter..

Shyt happens and ISI definitely isn't as capabile as a lot of fanboys here like to claim.

Interesting you would say this. As we speak, Pakistan is negotiating with US for MLU on its F-16s and there is even talk of buying second-hand F-16s. Who benefits from this arrangement?

All F-16s were MLU'd by TAI,Turkey... The MLU kits had been bought a while back...

The second hand F-16 deal was just speculations nothing solid ... About PAF getting surplus F-16s from countries like Jordan.

 

[Imran Khan]

Perhaps you should avail yourself of the ballot box in Pakistan and change your government because the government you have now, feels very differently on the issue and my country has to deal with the government that is in power and not the one you may want.

sir i am not supporter of any political party in pakistan. i am just common Pakistani without any motto or goals . we just want to see US has leave us alone forever .

 

[Desertfalcon]

sir i am not supporter of any political party in pakistan. i am just common Pakistani without any motto or goals . we just want to see US has leave us alone forever .

Well, be we you do not mean your country's air force, the government of Pakistan as well as a number of other non-governmental organizations. It is the Pakistan Air Force that requested the F-16 deal, not the USA. It is the government of Pakistan that wants that deal, not most American government officials, apparently. That is why I suggest that you should address them and not us with your concerns. America must deal with the government in power in Islamabad.

 

[B+ Dracula]

Nah

View attachment 314849

F-16

 

[Spectre]

sir i am not supporter of any political party in pakistan. i am just common Pakistani without any motto or goals . we just want to see US has leave us alone forever .

Quite easy. Close your embassy in US and expel their ambassador.

 

[Desertfalcon]

Quite easy. Close your embassy in US and expel their ambassador.

Quite true. If his were the prevailing opinion of most Pakistanis, I'm sure they would vote for a government accordingly, that would do exactly that.

 

[Imran Khan]

Quite easy. Close your embassy in US and expel their ambassador.

IF i have power i will do it within 3 hours .

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Quite easy. Close your embassy in US and expel their ambassador.

Quite true. If his were the prevailing opinion of most Pakistanis, I'm sure they would vote for a government accordingly, that would do exactly that.

Emotional outbursts .. Anger kills a lot of brain cells..apart from "rationality"..

 

[litman]

hate the attitude of the USA but i admit that i would love to see some more block 52s in PAF colors till some 5th gen jet makes entry into PAF fleet.

 

[RedRock]

I agree and would offer two reasons why it has turned sour. The first is the general reason that you pointed out...



That has sadly, become the prevailing attitude of most Americans. It is the feeling of most Americans since 9/11 about most Muslim countries. The second, which is specific to Pakistan and confirmed the first in their eyes, is where Osama bin Laden had been living for many years, before we caught up to him. Americans are convinced that Pakistan's government was complicit in hiding him and protecting him.

I don't say those things because I think them right or to offer an American excuse, but only to point out the perspective from the American point of view.


Perhaps you should avail yourself of the ballot box in Pakistan and change your government because the government you have now, feels very differently on the issue and my country has to deal with the government that is in power and not the one you may want.

Hey,
You had mentioned in your previous post that you sent your position, so what was it? do you want us to get the f-16's or are you against it?

Also, is it right to say, since you agreed with desert fighter, that the Americans are responsible for creating the bad blood between us and ruining our relationship? If you feel that is the case, what do you think should be the next steps America should take in improving this relationship?Subsidizing the F-16's is a given, but what else could America do to improve it?

Also, do you believe that the Pakistan Army had no knowledge of the Osama operation?

The reason i am asking these questions is because i am interested in knowing the American pov, especially yours, since you have mentioned that you are a Republican party official.

Cheers

 

[Spectre]

IF i have power i will do it within 3 hours .

You said "we common Pakistanis want US to leave us alone". Surely common Pakistanis can can vote in a govt who will do the requisite as@Desertfalcon said

Quite true. If his were the prevailing opinion of most Pakistanis, I'm sure they would vote for a government accordingly, that would do exactly that.

The problem lies with Pakistani Military who for all purposes is the defacto power running Pakistani FP on behalf of a rubber stamp govt. They misguide Pakistani people by giving anti-US statements all the while running off to US every now and then to ask for more money to save their economy, more weapons to fight their wars etc

All said and then, China hype aside - Look at the data - Major proportion of Pakistani trade is with west and not China. It is the US controlled IMF and WB which is effectively financing Pakistani budget deficit and debt repayments without which they would default and go bankrupt.
Common Pakistanis don't know this and are driven by deep state propaganda which makes US a convenient villain and China the angelic savior.

Put simply if US makes IMF and WB pull the plug - Pakistan will collapse without a whimper but US cannot do that because of the risk of nuclear weapons in hands of Jihadis. Pakistani military for all it's faults is invested in survival of Pakistan and by extension won't seek to blow up the world which the extremists won't hesitate to4

 

[Sky lord]

I agree. There is virtually no chance, (or at least very little.), that these aircraft would be used against India

Yeah right!

Absolutely no chance at all!!




Pakistanis are right! Beware of friendship with America!

 

[Spectre]

Emotional outbursts .. Anger kills a lot of brain cells..apart from "rationality"..

It is to some extent the failure of State Dept which failed to push the US PoV in Pakistan. US is today doing much more than China in keeping Pakistani economy stabilized but all that goes unpublished and all we see in media is smear pieces and anti US rhetoric while China is painted as second coming of Christ.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

It is to some extent the failure of State Dept which failed to push the US PoV in Pakistan. US is today doing much more than China in keeping Pakistani economy stabilized but all that goes unpublished and all we see in media is smear pieces and anti US rhetoric while China is painted as second coming of Christ.

Dear Sir

Please quit this thread or you will get banned again

 

[Spectre]

Dear Sir

Please quit this thread or you will get banned again

I hope not as I put across my concern to the Mods in the General Headquarter sections last three times I was banned by a certain mod, without any justification, out of the blue and like last time, this time too as far as I know I have not trolled nor baited nor used abusive languages nor engaged in personal attacks. My points are logical, detailed and intended as constructive criticism against current Pakistani disposition and not against Pakistani people or state of Pakistan. I have also not made any racist, bigoted or off color remarks.