Domestic & Social Crimes [Mob/ Vigilante justice] Thread

[T-Faz]

InshaAllah is a compound word made up of Insha = will and Allah. With your 'Inshallah' where if there is 'Insha' there is no 'Allah', and if there is 'allah', there is no will, its unlikely that your tyrants will rot in the hell.

Yes, instead Jamaat e Islami will rot in hell.

 

[qsaark]

Yes, instead Jamaat e Islami will rot in hell.

Ameen; I am also a vehement opposer of Jamaat Islami and its terrorist wing, Islami Jamiat Tulba.

 

[Awesome]

It is not highly personal matter otherwise a person of Iqbal's stature would have never requested the British Indian Government to declare Qadianis as a separate community:

"The best course for the rulers of India is, in my opinion, to declare the Qadianis a separate community".

Iqbal's statement:

Postscript. I understands that this statement has caused some misunderstanding in some quarters. It is thought that I have made a subtle suggestion to the Government to suppress the Qadiani movement by force. Nothing of the kind. I have made it clear that the policy of non-interference in religion is the only policy which can be adopted by the rulers of India. No other is possible policy is possible. I confess, however, that to my mind this policy is harmful to the interests of religious communities; but there is no escape from it and those who suffer will have to safeguard their interests by suitable means. The best course for the rulers of India is, in my opinion, to declare the Qadianis a separate community. This will be perfectly consistent with the policy of the Qadianis themselves, and the Indian Muslim will tolerate them just as he tolerates other religions.

Iqbal's statement is a statement he gives as a last ditch effort to make everyone get along. You can see that he's conceding to the Muslims' intolerance. He's not saying its the right thing to do, but its the thing he'd suggest in a majboori (out of compulsion).

 

[qsaark]

I am failed to understand what is wrong in preventing the Qadyanis from using the word Islam? The able members, the SuperMods, the Think Tanks, are they better in their understanding of the issue of Finality, and the issue of using the name of Islam by the non-Muslims than the Prophet (PBUH) himself and the Khulafa Rashideen?

Were Uswad Ansi and Muselma Kazzab not killed? As you must know, during the last part of the life of Prophet Muhammed (PBUH), Uswad Ansi and Muselma Kazzab made false claims to Prophethood. Uswad Ansi was killed under the direct orders of Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) by Hazrat Feroze Dailmi Radi Allahu unhu in Yemen and after hearing this news, Muhammed (PBUH) had said "Last night, Uswad Ansi was killed – he was killed by a blessed person from the house of the blessed. He (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) was asked about the person who did this. He (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) said "Feroz did this – Feroz has succeeded (in hereafter).”

After Muhammed (PBUH) had passed away, Ameer ul Momineen Hazrat Abu Bakar ordered the Muslim troops to find and kill the Muselma Kazaab. Muselma Kazzab was killed along with some tens of thousands (about 28,000) of his followers in the battlefield of Yamama by the Muslim forces under the command of Khalid bin Waleed Radi Allahu unhu. About 1,200 Muslims also got martyred and this was the largest number of Muslims martyred in the last 10 years. Please note that the total number of Companions (Sahaba ajmaeen) martyred in Jehad during the ten years of Prophet’s (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) life in Medina is 259, whereas those martyred defending the cause of Finality of Prophethood against the apostates amount to 1200 – included amongst them are 70 Ahl e Badr (companions who took part in the battle of Badr), and 700 reciters and memorizers of Quran. This includes the Imam (Prayer Leader) of Quba Mosque, one of the four notable reciters (Salim Mola Huzaifa Radi Allahu unhu), elder bother of Hazrat Umer Radi Allahu unhu (Zaid bin Khattab Radi Allahu unhu), spokesman of Prophet Sallallahu Alahyi Wasallam (Sabit bin Qais bin Shammas Ansari Radi Allahu unhu) and prominent companions, Hazrat Tufail bin Umro and Huzaifa bin Yaman Radi-Allahu unhum.

This was the importance of the cause of Finality of Prophethood.

 

[Kompromat]

Iqbal's statement:


Iqbal's statement is a statement he gives as a last ditch effort to make everyone get along. You can see that he's conceding to the Muslims' intolerance. He's not saying its the right thing to do, but its the thing he'd suggest in a majboori (out of compulsion).

Asim i agree with the fact that Doctor Sahib did his best to keep all in one box but look you and i both understand that to survive in a same place we need not to have too many differences.

Difference of opinion goes hand in hand with debates and in some cases conflicts but Doctor sahib did this effort in his good faith being a well wisher to Muslim Ummah.

At that time the Qadiyanis were well in disguise between Muslims and They were NOT declared a Non muslim community,though conflicts because of their Misguided Faith were starting to begain.

It was back in 60's when Top of the Line Ulema started Mubahhlah's and Debates with Qadiyanis about their Believes and they got bangged in all of them and ran away from many , didn't attended few of them.

They were Proved Non muslims then it was brought to our constitution.

Now there is no doubt that they are Non muslims , Thank God our elders did this work for us as they were supposed to do so.

So yes Doctor Allama Iqbal (rehmat Allah eleh) done what he could to keep Muslims including Ahmadis (who were not proven Kafirs at that time so they still were considered Muslims) in the same line as this is what you do when you are a man of his caliber.

Thanks

 

[Awesome]

Asim i agree with the fact that Doctor Sahib did his best to keep all in one box but look you and i both understand that to survive in a same place we need not to have too many differences.

Difference of opinion goes hand in hand with debates and in some cases conflicts but Doctor sahib did this effort in his good faith being a well wisher to Muslim Ummah.

At that time the Qadiyanis were well in disguise between Muslims and They were NOT declared a Non muslim community,though conflicts because of their Misguided Faith were starting to begain.

It was back in 60's when Top of the Line Ulema started Mubahhlah's and Debates with Qadiyanis about their Believes and they got bangged in all of them and ran away from many , didn't attended few of them.

They were Proved Non muslims then it was brought to our constitution.

Now there is no doubt that they are Non muslims , Thank God our elders did this work for us as they were supposed to do so.

So yes Doctor Allama Iqbal (rehmat Allah eleh) done what he could to keep Muslims including Ahmadis (who were not proven Kafirs at that time so they still were considered Muslims) in the same line as this is what you do when you are a man of his caliber.

Thanks

Engage in debates, there's nothing wrong with that but you can't force them to call them non-Muslims. To use an example before they can call themselves King Kong, it doesn't become my business to say no to that.

Look at the end of the day the message we're passing to your future generations is that, that its okay to use force and make one religion change itself according to our demands. Now the same is happening to you world over and you cry foul. Your women are being dis-robed or de-hijabed in the UK and Europe and you cry foul. You can't build your mosques in the traditional Islamic way in Switzerland and you cry foul, you can't sell halaal food in France and you cry foul. The whole world should lie before you and you should be allowed to stomp over everyone?

They have the strength, they did their subjugation of Muslims, just like we have the strength in Pakistan, we also subjugated the Ahmedis.

Till we don't build this tolerance within us we'll remain backward and tied up within petty issues.

 

[kallol]

About treating minorities in Pakistan :

1. What is the status of Ahmedis ?

2. How does pakistan treat Shia ?

3. What was the % population of the minorities (Christian, Jew, Hindu, etc) during 1947 and now ?

4. What has been the % increase trends in churches, synagog and temples in Pakistan from 1947 till present ?

5. What does blasphemy mean to minorities ?

4. What % of minorities are in high position and visible position or are admired ?

These questions will provide clue to how tolerant and equanimous is Pakistan

 

[Gin ka Pakistan]

About treating minorities in Pakistan :


2. How does pakistan treat Shia ?

Our President is a Shia

 

[JonAsad]

About treating minorities in Pakistan :

1. What is the status of Ahmedis ?

2. How does pakistan treat Shia ?

3. What was the % population of the minorities (Christian, Jew, Hindu, etc) during 1947 and now ?

4. What has been the % increase trends in churches, synagog and temples in Pakistan from 1947 till present ?

5. What does blasphemy mean to minorities ?

4. What % of minorities are in high position and visible position or are admired ?

These questions will provide clue to how tolerant and equanimous is Pakistan

Dear Sir,
if you want to talk about minorities, democracy or other matters go to relevant threads. Dont try to derail this thread.

you indians specially hindus have no right to come in this thread to express you views or to take part in our religious matters. you have no idea about the severety of ahmadis fitna nor you understand islam.

So kindly take ur BS somewhere else, and take your thank you army with you (which are always ready to thank any posts an indian has written) and let the muslim members discuss their faith.

This thread should not concern you.
now if u justify that you are only here bcaz of dat tyrant indians comment then couple of indians have already commented on that and that is enough.

 

[JonAsad]

On March 24, 2007, Justice Rana Bhagwandas, while being sworn in as acting chief justice of Pakistan, had to take his oath of office with a Quranic prayer: “May Allah Almighty help and guide me, Ameen.” Imagine what would happen if a Muslim judge in India, the United States, or Canada were forced to take the oath on the Bible or the Bhagavad-Gita. You would have the streets full of “outraged” demonstrators across the world. Where were these demonstrators when Justice Bhagwandas was humiliated publicly?’ [Chasing A Mirage – The Tragic Illusion Of An Islamic Faith by Tarek Fatah; pg 41][/INDENT]

thats y we dont allow ny non-muslim to be the president of our country, you will not understand this because you are not a muslim.. so get out of this thread and raise this issue some where else.

This thread is only for discussion on Ahmedi fitna

 

[Meesna]

Its funny you mention deobandis as their founder Maulana Qasim Nanutwi was actually a denier of finality of parenthood.

 

[Meesna]

 

[Meesna]

It is not highly personal matter otherwise a person of Iqbal's stature would have never requested the British Indian Government to declare Qadianis as a separate community:

"The best course for the rulers of India is, in my opinion, to declare the Qadianis a separate community".

I don't know what you are trying to say. You jump around from right of a person to beliefs, to specific beliefs, to large cuts and pastes. Point is regardless of what a person believes or not they are protected by universal declaration of human rights to which Pakistan is also a signatory in case you were wondering. Whether you like what others believe or not, you can not persecute them for their beliefs.

 

[T-Faz]

About treating minorities in Pakistan :

1. What is the status of Ahmedis ?

Though Ahmadies are classified as non muslims, they are a very influential minority in Pakistan, represented highly in civil and military sectors. They do not disclose their religion much because they do not consider themselves as different from other muslims.

Federal Baboos include 10 Jews

By Ansar Abbasi

ISLAMABAD: Whether you believe it or not, the federal government civil servants include ten declared Jews.

Generally it is considered that Pakistan, which contains minorities following diverse religious beliefs, does not have Jew population but the 12th census of civil servants proves it, otherwise.

There is no assessment of exact population of Jews in Pakistan but the federal civil servants' census report confirmed that 10 of the total federal civil servants are declared Jews. Without showing their names, as it seems suitable to ensure their safety and security, the report says that the ten Jews include one officer in BPS 18; one in BPS 17; four in BPS 16; one in BPS 14 and three in BPS 13. There is, however, no Jew serving in senior grades of BPS 19 to 22.

According to the official data, an overwhelming majority (97.5 per cent) of the federal civil servants are Muslims. There are 508 (0.2 pc) Ahmadis, 422 (0.2pc) Hindus (caste and non-caste), 24 Buddhists, 3,819 (1.6pc) Christians, 10 Jews, 12 Parsis and 45 belonging to other different religions. Interestingly 0.5pc employees have not disclosed their religion.

The strength of Muslim employees in BPS 19 to 22 is 97.7pc; BS 17 to 18 is 97.9pc; BS 16 is 97.7pc; BS 11 to 15 is 98.3pc; BS 3 to 10 is 98.7pc and BS 1 to 2 is 95.1pc. The statistic shows that strength of Ahmadis, generally known as Qadianis, in BS 19 to 22 is 0.9pc; in BS 17 and 18 is 0.9pc; in BS 16 is 0.8pc; in BS 11 to 15 is 0.3pc; in BS 3 to 10 is 0.1pc and in BS 1 to 2 is 0.1pc.

The statistics about Qadiani employees shows that they mostly hold senior positions in the federal civilian bureaucracy. The percentage of Qadiani officials shrinks as one observes their number against lower tiers. However, it is expected that most of the 0.5pc of the federal civil servants, who did not disclose their religion, are also Qadianis.

The BPS-wise analysis shows that Hindus are nine BS 19 to 22 officers in the federal bureaucracy. They are in BS-17 to 18; nine in BS-16; 39 in BS-11 to 15; 85 in BS-3 to 10 and 254 in BS-1 to 2.

The analysis about Buddhist employees reveals that out of the total 24 civil servants belonging to this religion, one is serving against BS-19; one in BS-18; one in BS-14; one in BS-9; four in BS-7; one in BS-6; four in BS 5; two in BS-2 and nine in BS-1.

Scrutiny of the Christian employees indicates that an overwhelming majority of them ie 2,784 out of the total 3,819 are in BS-1 and BS-2. In other scales they are: 613 in BS-3 to 10; 307 in BS-11 to 15; 77 in BS-16; 32 in BS-17 to 18; four in BS-19; and one each in BS-20 and BS-21. The study of federal civil servants also shows that a total of 12 civil servants belong to Parsi religion. These include one in BS-18; one in BS-17; three in BS-16; one in BS-11; one in BS-7 and five in BS-1.

About the prospects of upward mobility of the civil servants belonging to minorities, a senior official of the establishment division said the government employees have equal opportunities of promotion as enjoyed by their Muslims colleagues. The establishment division is of the view that any discrimination on the basis of religion or caste etc is unconstitutional. It is said that quite a large number of officers belonging to minorities have made it to the top echelons of the civilian bureaucracy and are given important assignments.

2. How does pakistan treat Shia ?

President is Shia, enough said.

3. What was the % population of the minorities (Christian, Jew, Hindu, etc) during 1947 and now ?

We use the first census carried out in 1950/1 to determine the decrease or increase of minorities in WEST PAKISTAN alone, Indian media uses 1947 indicators to distort the truth to show a Pakistan where minorities are decreasing which is incorrect. Lets leave Bangladesh out and concentrate on the statistics of west Pakistan. I will use hindus as an example who have increased over time.

Now lets answer your question, 1947 stats cannot be used becuase of mass migration of hindus towars india. Lets use 1950 for a better comparison shall we as it was when the migration and internal deisplacemt was over. There were 39,448,232 people in Pakistan and a total of 6.54 milllion hindus, of which 5.4 million left for India.

http://www.hks.harvard.edu/fs/akhwaja/papers/The%20Big%20March%20December%202005.pdf

Now Pakistan was left with 1.1 million from whom half were unfortunately killed from Muslims who heard of killing in India of other Muslims.

So by that account 500,000 hindus were left and today they are higher than 4 million, percentage does not matter becuase muslim population boomed and there were alot of immigrants who entered Pakistan.

JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

Islamic Revelution Against Terrorism: Did Hindu Population Decrease to 3% in Pakistan?

Similarly we have many hindus who serve in our civil service and have reached great heights. Today there are 4 million hindus in Pakistan, increases from half a million.

Pak Hindu MPs stage walkout over terror slur - Pakistan - World - The Times of India

4. What has been the % increase trends in churches, synagog and temples in Pakistan from 1947 till present ?

All temples, churches, gurdwara are well preserved and are opened by government for minorities if they do not have them in a certain place, the government on the request of an old Jewish lady opened a new synagogue in Pakistan in 2005, a jewish pakistani posted pics.

Look in the second page.

Jewish heritage outside Israel - Page 4 - SkyscraperCity

5. What does blasphemy mean to minorities ?

Blasphemy means BS, its for show only in most places.

4. What % of minorities are in high position and visible position or are admired ?

Read my answer to second question and come to Karachi and you will see the highest flag in Clifton, Karachi is of the hindu temple. Many hindus, christians and qadiyanis are in very respectable and notable positions. Deepal Perwani, Rana Bhagwandas, Danish Kaneria, Fernando Lobos, just read about the catholic board of school of Pakistan. Many respected people in pakistani of minorities.

These questions will provide clue to how tolerant and equanimous is Pakistan

Dont listen to the extremists here or anywhere else, the military and ISI is knocking them off the list one by one.

Pakistan Zindabad, Terrorist Murdabad.

 

[Awesome]

In non-tyrant Pakistan...

Dude, I already gave the final word on this topic on this thread. If you want this debate create a new thread, I'll own you in the other thread . But don't derail this one.