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Domestic & Social Crimes [Mob/ Vigilante justice] Thread

What is the problem if they preach their religion in the name of Mickey Mouse and claim him a prophet? By restricting what they call their beliefs/faith we are discriminating and restricting their freedom to practice their faith as they see fit.
The problem is they are confusing Muslims and that is not acceptable.

You brought up the point about Mormons - the other Chrisitian sects are within their rights to declare Mormons a 'non-Christian cult', but the US government has no business legislating what Mormons can and cannot do and what they can and cannot call themselves - that is the point being made here. The State should not get into the business of theology and legislating on the basis of theology, especially when it comes to restricting the rights of certain communities.
Better was expected from you; are you not aware that Mormons are not allowed to engage in polygamy in the United States?

How is restricting Ahmadi's from calling themselves what they wish and proselytizing in the name of whatever they wish 'for their own good'? If you are going to argue that it is for their own good in that it prevents the majority community from violently targeting them and persecuting them, then that is an invalid justification and a poor reflection on the mentality of the majority.
Would you allow my if I call myself son of your father and later claim myself a heir of your father?

If you think about the issue dispassionately, you will realize that there is no harm done to either society or Islam with allowing the Ahmadis to call themselves Muslim.
That is how you think, I do not. The harm was indeed done and that is why there was a movement against this cult.

I don't buy the argument that somehow the fact that Ahmadi's call themselves Muslim allows them to use 'deceitful means' to convert other people to their faith thinking they are converting to another sect of Islam.
Islam does not depend on whether you buy something or not, it depends on what is written in Quran and Hadith. Rasool Allah has mentioned clearly, "Those who invented new things in our religion are not among us".

If those being proselytized to do not even understand such a basic tenet of mainstream Islam as the 'finality of prophet-hood with Mohammed', then perhaps you shouldn't really worry too much about these particular 'Muslims', and focus more on spreading the proper message of Islam as you see it, rather than denying others the right to proselytize their beliefs.
No one is denying nobodoy's right to proselytize their beliefs so long they declare themselves non-Muslim, its a simple matter of belief. Hazrat Abu Bakar had sent troops to curb those tribes that had refused to pay 'zakat' because those tribes were 'inventing' a new thing in Islam and causing confusion among the rest of the Muslims. Hazrat Ali had ordered to burn alive a group of so-called Muslims who considered Ali the God.

You (Agno) maybe a Super-Moderator of this forum but not better or more informed about Islam than Hazrat Abu Bakar and Ameer ul Mo'mineen Ali hence I will follow them not you.
 
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When someone starts using smilies in his reply,its is a clear indication that he is left with no logical arguments and better be left alone with all his ignorance. Indeed there are foolish Muslims who even get converted to Christianity or other religions let alone Ahmediya. But more foolish are those Muslims who do not realize it their religious duty to help those 'weak' Muslims not to convert from Islam to other religion. There was a reason why the Tablighi Jamaat was established by noted scholars such as Moulana Muhammed Ilyas in Mewat, almost eighty decades ago but I am talking to whom?

Do not put your words in my mouth.

I am not a Mullah, but Alhamdulillah more aware about my religion and the duties bestowed upon me by my Allah and his Prophet, something you need to think about rather than slinging mud and insulting people.

I do not have to provide you with any source, because this has happened to me personally and I know that Ahmedis try to sell their cult under the guise of Islam.

When a man considers his experience as a source for his prejudice and forms opinion from it, he can only be considered benighted.

And boy do not question me about my religion and how much I know of it or do not. No one in Islam can judge another on what they do and believe, may I remind you of this:

And Allah will judge with (Justice and) Truth: but those whom (men) invoke besides Him, will not (be in a position) to judge at all. Verily it is Allah (alone) Who hears and sees (all things).
Surah Gafir 40 Verse 20

You are judging Ahmadies through hearsay and hatred instilled in you. And you refer to me as someone who is not known, I might not be known for preaching hatred or persecution for others but I am working hard on an achievement that will make Pakistan proud, albeit only in limited circles. When that happens, I will personally let you know.

And tell me this, why has Pakistan suffered so much since it was 'islamized' by Zia ul Haq. We have suffered great tragedies and extreme problems, much of whom did not exist before such a satanic onslaught by the so called Islamic leaders. Why were things better before, the answer lies in Allah's punishment for us straying far away from the right path and enforcing rules that are against the core of our religion.
 
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When a man considers his experience as a source for his prejudice and forms opinion from it, he can only be considered benighted.

And boy do not question me about my religion and how much I know of it or do not. No one in Islam can judge another on what they do and believe, may I remind you of this:

And Allah will judge with (Justice and) Truth: but those whom (men) invoke besides Him, will not (be in a position) to judge at all. Verily it is Allah (alone) Who hears and sees (all things).
Surah Gafir 40 Verse 20

You are judging Ahmadies through hearsay and hatred instilled in you. And you refer to me as someone who is not known, I might not be known for preaching hatred or persecution for others but very soon I will be known for an achievement that will make Pakistan proud, albeit only in the educated circles. When that happens, I will personally let you know.
There is no need to question about your religion, as it is evident from number of your posts that you are clueless about Islam. You are an ignorant and that is all you are. Stop quoting isolated verses of Quran to support your twisted views; That aya is about the judgment day not about how a Muslim society should act because Allah is not going to come in the earth to resolve those matters. Ever heard of Fiqah?

And tell me this, why has Pakistan suffered so much since it was 'islamized' by Zia ul Haq. We have suffered great tragedies and extreme problems, much of whom did not exist before such a satanic onslaught by the so called Islamic leaders. Why were things better before, the answer lies in Allah's punishment for us straying far away from the right path and enforcing rules that are against the core of our religion.
Yet another example of your ignorance..... Ahmedis were declared non-Muslim in the time of liberal Bhutto not religious Zia.
 
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The problem is they are confusing Muslims and that is not acceptable.
Incompetency of Muslims to be Muslims is not the fault of Ahmedis.

Better was expected from you; are you not aware that Mormons are not allowed to engage in polygamy in the United States?
Nor is anyone else. Secular law, not theocratic.

Would you allow my if I call myself son of your father and later claim myself a heir of your father?
It is not my right to disallow what you say, but I can disagree with you. You can call yourself Godzilla and it doesn't make it true.

That is how you think, I do not. The harm was indeed done and that is why there was a movement against this cult.
You said they are confusing Muslims and taking away them as recruits. Then you're pretty much saying that your religion is inferior to theirs and they have the better sales pitch. If you're a mainstream Muslim then you should not have this fear of harm from Ahmedis. It should not be the states responsibility that who wins more recruits in a religion. As Muslims we are taught that Islam's message is good enough to fail all other messages. I'm confident in Islam, the real mainstream Islam (as per my beliefs) as the best religion thats why I'm a Muslim. If somebody else is not, their loss in the afterlife. I won't chase after them with a gun.

Islam does not depend on whether you buy something or not, it depends on what is written in Quran and Hadith. Rasool Allah has mentioned clearly, "Those who invented new things in our religion are not among us".
I disagree that such fear and incompetency is propagated in the Quran, but I'm saying Pakistan government should not depend on what is written in religious books. It should bring laws that are same on all Pakistanis. We don't want to become tyrants like the people of India we left behind.

No one is denying nobodoy's right to proselytize their beliefs so long they declare themselves non-Muslim, its a simple matter of belief. Hazrat Abu Bakar had sent troops to curb those tribes that had refused to pay 'zakat' because those tribes were 'inventing' a new thing in Islam and causing confusion among the rest of the Muslims. Hazrat Ali had ordered to burn alive a group of so-called Muslims who considered Ali the God.
Your demand is wrong. Basically we believe that the Prophet is the last messenger of Allah, they believe in one extra guy. They are saying we are wrong and they are right. They should be allowed to say that. That is the confidence we Muslims should have in us, what is that word we often slam against each other but rarely employ? What is it? Iman?

You (Agno) maybe a Super-Moderator of this forum but not better or more informed about Islam than Hazrat Abu Bakar and Ameer ul Mo'mineen Ali hence I will follow them not you.
You can follow them in isolation you can believe what they want to believe. As long as you don't physically harm anyone or force your views upon anyone, you can even preach and make sure nobody follows the Ahmedis but it should be by choice not by threats of going to jail. We want Pakistanis to follow one fair law and uphold Quaid's message.

You may belong to any religion or caste or creed. That has nothing to do with the business of the State
 
We don't want to become tyrants like the people of India we left behind.

What's the difference between you & the person you are arguing with?

He has a irrational attitude towards the Ahmedis and you have one towards Indians.

What exactly was your point in making the above statement when the discussion had nothing remotely concerned with Indians?

Kind of undercut your attempt at taking the high moral ground, don't you think?
 
What's the difference between you & the person you are arguing with?

He has a irrational attitude towards the Ahmedis and you have one towards Indians.

What exactly was your point in making the above statement when the discussion had nothing remotely concerned with Indians?

Kind of undercut your attempt at taking the high moral ground, don't you think?

:) Funny isn't it, the tyrants who were 'ruled' for a thousand years :lol::lol::lol:

Simply can't win this one mate, the ideology is the source of the ideology.
 
There is no need to question about your religion, as it is evident from number of your posts that you are clueless about Islam. You are an ignorant and that is all you are. Stop quoting isolated verses of Quran to support your twisted views; That aya is about the judgment day not about how a Muslim society should act because Allah is not going to come in the earth to resolve those matters. Ever heard of Fiqah?

Yet another example of your ignorance..... Ahmedis were declared non-Muslim in the time of liberal Bhutto not religious Zia.

I do not know you and would not question you on your faith or your knowledge of religion. Similarly learn to free yourself of the shackles that bound you and have obviously clouded your mind. You are taking my comments out of context and so have narrowed your thinking to an unsuitable point of view.

You would not change my view and I would not change yours, let god be the judge and let live.
 
... let god be the judge and let live.
I will not be judged by your god, I will be judged by the God, Allah the Almighty, hence I have to make sure that I prepare myself for that; You on the other hand are free to believe or not to believe as it suits you or pleases you. Now do not argue that it was only a typo, because those who care about these things are always extra careful and obviously you are not the one who cares.
 
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What's the difference between you & the person you are arguing with?

He has a irrational attitude towards the Ahmedis and you have one towards Indians.

What exactly was your point in making the above statement when the discussion had nothing remotely concerned with Indians?

Kind of undercut your attempt at taking the high moral ground, don't you think?
Please don't derail the thread and don't call anyone irrational, we're here to debate a topic not debate qsaark.

My only comment on your nitpicking with my examples is that from the Pakistani point of view the Freedom struggle was inspired by the notion that the Indians would subjugate the Muslims. You're welcome to disagree, just not debate it in this thread.
 
Qadianis and Orthodox Muslims

by

Dr. Allama Iqbal

The issue created by the controversy between the Qadianis and the orthodox Muslims is extremely important. The Muslims have only recently begun to realise its importance. I intended to address an open letter to the British people explaining the social and political implications of the issue. But unfortunately my health prevented me from doing so. I am, however, glad to say a few words for the present on the matter, which, to my mind, affects the entire collective life of the Indian Muslims. It must, however, be pointed out at the outset that I have no intention to enter into any theological argument. Nor do I mean to undertake a psychological analysis of the mind of the founder of the Qadiani movement; the former will not interest those for whom this statement is meant and the time for the latter has not yet arrived in India. My point of view is that of a student of general history and comparative religion.

India is a land of many religious communities, and Islam is a religious community in a much deeper sense than those communities whose structure is determined partly by the religious and partly by the race idea. Islam repudiates the race idea altogether and founds itself on the religious idea alone, a basis which is wholly spiritual and consequently for more ethereal than blood relationship, Muslim society is naturally much more sensitive to forces which it considers harmful to its integrity. Any religious society historically arising from the bosom of Islam, which claims a new prophethood for its basis, and declares all Muslims who do not recognise the truth of its alleged revelation as Kafirs, must, therefore, be regarded by every Muslims as a serious danger to the solidarity of Islam. This must necessarily be so; since the integrity of Muslim society is secured by the Idea of the Finality of Prophethood alone.

This idea of Finality is perhaps the most original idea in the cultural history of mankind: its true significance can be understood only by those who carefully study the history of pre-Islamic Magian culture in Western and Middle Asia. The concept of Magian culture, according to modern research, includes cultures associated with Zoroastruanism, Judaism, Jewish Christianity, Chaldean and Sabean religion. To these creed-communities the idea of the continuity of prophethood was essential, and consequently they lived in a state of constant expectation. It is probable that the Magian man psychologically enjoyed this state of expectation. The modern man is spiritually far more emancipated than the Magian man. The result of the Magian attitude was the disintegration of old communities and the constant formation of new ones by all sorts of religious adventurers. In the modern world of Islam, ambitious and ignorant Mullaism, taking advantage of the modern Press, has shamelessly attempted to hurl the old pre-Islamic Magian outlook in the face of the twentieth century. It is obvious that Islam which claims to weld all the various communities of the world into one single community cannot reconcile itself to a movement which threatens its present solidarity and holds the promise of further rifts in human society.

Of the of the two forms which the modern revival of Pre-Islamic Magianism has assumed, Bahaism appears to me to be far more honest than Qadianism; for the former openly departs from Islam, whereas the latter apparently retains some of the more important externals of Islam with an inwardness wholly inimical of the spirit and aspirations of Islam. Its idea of a jealous God with an inexhaustible store of earthquakes and plagues for its opponents; its conception of the prophet as a soothsayer; its idea of the continuity of the spirit of messiah, are so absolutely Jewish that the movement can easily be regarded as a return to early Judaism. Professor Buber who has given an account of the movement initiated by the Polish Messiah Baalshem tells us that "it was thought that the spirit of the Messiah descended upon the earth through the prophets and even though a long line of holy men stretching into the present time - the Zaddiks" (Sadiq). Heretical movements in Muslim Iran under the pressure of Pre-Islamic Magian ideas invented the words buruz, hulul, zill, to cover this idea of a perpetual reincarnation. It was necessary to invent new expressions for a Magian idea in order to make it less shocking to Muslim conscience. Even the phrase "Promised Messiah" is not a product of Muslim religious consciousness. It is a bastard expression and has its origin in the Pre-Islamic Magian outlook.

We do not find it in early Islamic religious and historical literature. This remarkable fact is revealed by Professor Wensinck's Concordance of the Traditions of the Holy Prophet, which covers no less than eleven collections of the traditions and three of the earliest historical documents of Islam. One can very well understand the reasons why early Muslims never used this expression. The expression did not appeal to them probably because they thought that it implied a false conception of the historical process. The Magian mind regarded time as a circular movement, the glory of elucidation, the true nature of the historical process as a perpetually creative movement was reserved for the great Muslim thinker and historian, Ibn Khaldun.

The intensity of feeling which the Indian Muslims have manifested in opposition to the Quadiani movement is, therefore, perfectly intelligible to the student of modern sociology. The average Muslim who was the other day describes as "Mulla-ridden" by a writer in The Civil and Military Gazette is inspired in his opposition to the movement more by his instinct of self-preservation than by a fuller grasp called "enlightened"' Muslin has seldom made an attempt to understand the real cultural significance of the idea of Finality in Islam, and a process of slow and imperceptible westernisation has further deprived him even of the instinct of self-preservation. Some so-called enlightened Muslims have gone to the extent of preaching "tolerance' to their brethren-in-faith. I can easily excuse Sir Herbert Emerson for preaching toleration to Muslims; for a modern European who is born and brought up in an entirely different culture does not, and perhaps cannot, develop the insight which makes it possible for one to understand an issue vital to the very structure of a community with an entirely different cultural outlook.

In India circumstances are much more peculiar. This country of religious communities, where the future of each community rests entirely upon its solidarity, is ruled by a Western people who cannot but adopt a policy of non-interference in religion. This liberal and indispensable policy in a country like India has led to most unfortunate results. In so far as Islam is concerned, it is no exaggeration to say that the solidarity of the Muslim community in India under the British is far less safe than the solidarity of the Jewish community was in the days of Jesus under the Romans. Any religious adventurer in India can set up any claim and carve out a new community for his own exploration. This liberal State of ours does not care a fig for integrity of a parent community, provided the adventurer assures it of his loyalty and his followers are regular in the payment of taxes due to the State. The meaning of this policy for Islam was quite accurately seen by our great poet Akbar who in his usual humorous strain says:

O friend! pray for the glory of the Briton's name:
Say, "I am God" sans chain, sans cross, sans shame.


I very much appreciate the orthodox Hindus' demand for protection against religious reformers in the new constitution. Indeed, the demand ought to have been first made by the Muslims who. unlike Hindus, entirely eliminate the race idea from their social structure. The Government must seriously consider the present situation and try, if possible, to understand the mentality of the absolutely vital to the integrity of his community. After all, if the integrity of a community is threatened, the only course open to that community is to defend itself against the forces of disintegration.

And what are the ways of self-defense?

Controversial writings and refutation of the claims of the man who is regarded by the parent community as a religious adventurer. Is it then fair to preach toleration to the parent community whose integrity is threatened and to allow the rebellious group to carry on its propaganda with impunity, even when the propaganda is highly abusive?

If a group, rebellious from the point of view of the parent community, happens to be of some special service to Government, the latter are at liberty to reward their services as best as they can. Other communities will not grudge it. But the forces which tend seriously to affect its collective life. collective life is as sensitive to the danger of dissolution as individual life. It is hardly necessary to add in this connection that the mutual theological bickerings of Muslim sects do not affect vital principles on which all these sects agree with all their differences in spite of their mutual accusation of heresy.

There is one further point which demands Government's special consideration. The encouragement in India of religious adventurers, on the ground of modern liberalism, tends to make people more and more indifferent to religion and will eventually completely eliminate the important factor of religion from the life of Indian communities. The Indian mind is likely to be nothing less than the form of atheistic materialism which has appeared in Russia.

But the religious issue is not the only issue which is at present agitating the minds of the Punjab Muslims. There are other quarrels of a political nature which, according to my reading, Sir Herbert Emerson hinted in his speech at the Anjuman's anniversary. These are, no doubt, of a purely political nature, but they affect the unity of Punjab Muslims as seriously as the religious issue. While thanking the Government for their anxiety to see the Punjab Muslims united, I venture to suggest a little self-examination to the Government themselves. Who is responsible, I ask, for the distinction of rural and urban Muslims - a distinction which has cut up the Muslim community into two groups and the rural group into several sub-groups constantly at war with one another?

Sir Herbert Emerson deplores the lack of proper leadership among the Punjab Muslims. But I wish Sir Herbert Emerson realised that the rural-urban distinction created by the Government and maintained by them through ambitious political adventurers, whose eyes are fixed on their own personal interests and not on the unity of Islam in the Punjab, had already made the community incapable of producing a real leader. It appears to me that this device probably originated in a desire rather to make it impossible for real leadership to grow. Sir Herbert Emerson deplores the lack of leadership in Muslims; I deplore the continuation by the Government of a system which has crushed out all hope of a real leader appearing in the province.

Postscript. I understands that this statement has caused some misunderstanding in some quarters. It is thought that I have made a subtle suggestion to the Government to suppress the Qadiani movement by force. Nothing of the kind. I have made it clear that the policy of non-interference in religion is the only policy which can be adopted by the rulers of India. No other is possible policy is possible. I confess, however, that to my mind this policy is harmful to the interests of religious communities; but there is no escape from it and those who suffer will have to safeguard their interests by suitable means. The best course for the rulers of India is, in my opinion, to declare the Qadianis a separate community. This will be perfectly consistent with the policy of the Qadianis themselves, and the Indian Muslim will tolerate them just as he tolerates other religions.

The cultural value of the idea of finality in Islam I have fully explained elsewhere, its meaning is simple: No spiritual surrender to any human being after Muhammad (pbuh) who emancipated his followers by giving them a law which is realisable as arising from the very core of human conscience. Theologically, the doctrine is that: the socio-political organisation called "Islam" is perfect and eternal. No revelation the denial of which entails heresy is possible after Muhammad (pbuh). He who claims such a revelation is a traitor to Islam. Since the Qadianis believe the founder of the Ahmadiyyah movement to be the bearer of such a revelation, they declare that the entire world of Islam is Infidel. The founder's own argument, quite worthy of a medieval theologian, is that the spirituality of the Holy Prophet of Islam must be regarded as imperfect if it is not creative of another prophet. He claims his own prophethood to be an evidence of the prophet-rearing power of the spirituality of the Holy Prophet of Islam. But if you further ask him whether the spirituality of Muhammad (pbuh) is capable of rearing more prophets than one, his answer is "No". This virtually amounts to saying: "Muhammad (pbuh) is not the last Prophet: I am the last." Far from understanding the cultural value of the Islamic idea of finality in the history of mankind generally and of Asia especially, he thinks that finality in the sense that no follower of Muhammad (pbuh) can ever reach the status of prophethood is a mark of imperfection in Muhammad's (pbuh)prophethood. As I read the psychology of his mind he, in the interest of his own claim to prophethood avails himself of what he describes as the creative spirituality of the Holy Prophet of Islam and, at the same time, deprives the Holy Prophet of his "finality" by limiting the creative capacity of his spirituality of the rearing of only one prophet, i.e. the founder of the Ahmadiyyah movement. In this way does the new prophet quietly steal away the "finality" of one whom he claims to be his spiritual progenitor. He claims to be a buruz of the Holy Prophet of Islam insinuating thereby that, being a buruz of him, his "finality" is virtually the "finality" of Muhammad (pbuh); and that this view of the matter, therefore, does not violate the "finality" of the Holy Prophet. In identifying the two finalities, his own and that of the Holy Prophet, he conveniently loses sight of the temporal meaning of the idea of Finality. It is, however, obvious that the word buruz, in the sense even complete likeness, cannot help him at all; for the buruz must always remain the other side of its original. Only in the sense of reincarnation a buruz becomes identical with original. Thus if we take the word buruz to mean "like in spiritual qualities" the argument remains ineffective; if, on the other hand, we take it to mean reincarnation of the original in the Aryan sense of the word, the argument becomes plausible; but its author turns out to be only a magian in disguise. It is further claimed on the authority of the great Muslim mystic, Muhyuddin ibn Arabi of Spain, that it is possible for a Muslim saint to attain, in his spiritual evolution, to the kind of experience characteristic of the prophetic consciousness. I personally believe this view of Shaikh Muhyuddin ibn Arabi to be psychologically unsound: but assuming it to be correct the Qadiani argument is based on a complete misunderstanding of his exact position. The Shaikh regards it as a purely private achievement which does not, and in the nature of things cannot, entitle such a saint to declare that all those who do not believe in him are outside the pale of Islam. Indeed, from the Shaikh's point of view, there may be more than one saint, living in the same age or country, who may attain to prophet consciousness. The point to be seized is that, while it is psychologically possible for a saint to attain to prophetic experience, his experience will have no socio-political significance making him the centre of a new organisation and entitling him to declare this organisation to be the criterion of the faith or disbelief of the followers of Muhammad (pbuh). Leaving his mystical psychology aside I am convinced from a careful study of the relevant passages of the "Futuhat" that the great Spanish mystic is as a firm a believer in the Finality of Muhammad (pbuh) as any orthodox Muslim. And if he had seen in his mystical vision that one day in the East some Indian amateurs in Sufism would seek to destroy the Holy Prophet's Finality under cover of his mystical psychology, he would have certainly anticipated the Indian Ulama in warning the Muslims of the world against such traitors to Islam.

Note:

Indian Muslims and Partition of India by SM Ikram is also a MUST READ on this important issue.

The passage in Red is food for thought for some of the liberal Muslim members of this forum who are vehemently saying the similar what is mentioned in the passage by Iqbal.
 
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I will not be judged by your god, I will be judged by the God, Allah the Almighty, hence I have to make sure that I prepare myself for that; You on the other hand are free to believe or not to believe as it suits you or pleases you. Now do not argue that it was only a typo, because those who care about these things are always extra careful and obviously you are not the one who cares.

Yes Allah the Almighty will judge me and Inshallah the tyrants will rot in hell.
 
Qadianis and Orthodox Muslims

by

Dr. Allama Iqbal

The issue created by the controversy between the Qadianis and the orthodox Muslims is extremely important. The Muslims have only recently begun to realise its importance. I intended to address an open letter to the British people explaining the social and political implications of the issue. But unfortunately my health prevented me from doing so. I am, however, glad to say a few words for the present on the matter, which, to my mind, affects the entire collective life of the Indian Muslims. It must, however, be pointed out at the outset that I have no intention to enter into any theological argument. Nor do I mean to undertake a psychological analysis of the mind of the founder of the Qadiani movement; the former will not interest those for whom this statement is meant and the time for the latter has not yet arrived in India. My point of view is that of a student of general history and comparative religion.

India is a land of many religious communities, and Islam is a religious community in a much deeper sense than those communities whose structure is determined partly by the religious and partly by the race idea. Islam repudiates the race idea altogether and founds itself on the religious idea alone, a basis which is wholly spiritual and consequently for more ethereal than blood relationship, Muslim society is naturally much more sensitive to forces which it considers harmful to its integrity. Any religious society historically arising from the bosom of Islam, which claims a new prophethood for its basis, and declares all Muslims who do not recognise the truth of its alleged revelation as Kafirs, must, therefore, be regarded by every Muslims as a serious danger to the solidarity of Islam. This must necessarily be so; since the integrity of Muslim society is secured by the Idea of the Finality of Prophethood alone.

This idea of Finality is perhaps the most original idea in the cultural history of mankind: its true significance can be understood only by those who carefully study the history of pre-Islamic Magian culture in Western and Middle Asia. The concept of Magian culture, according to modern research, includes cultures associated with Zoroastruanism, Judaism, Jewish Christianity, Chaldean and Sabean religion. To these creed-communities the idea of the continuity of prophethood was essential, and consequently they lived in a state of constant expectation. It is probable that the Magian man psychologically enjoyed this state of expectation. The modern man is spiritually far more emancipated than the Magian man. The result of the Magian attitude was the disintegration of old communities and the constant formation of new ones by all sorts of religious adventurers. In the modern world of Islam, ambitious and ignorant Mullaism, taking advantage of the modern Press, has shamelessly attempted to hurl the old pre-Islamic Magian outlook in the face of the twentieth century. It is obvious that Islam which claims to weld all the various communities of the world into one single community cannot reconcile itself to a movement which threatens its present solidarity and holds the promise of further rifts in human society.

Of the of the two forms which the modern revival of Pre-Islamic Magianism has assumed, Bahaism appears to me to be far more honest than Qadianism; for the former openly departs from Islam, whereas the latter apparently retains some of the more important externals of Islam with an inwardness wholly inimical of the spirit and aspirations of Islam. Its idea of a jealous God with an inexhaustible store of earthquakes and plagues for its opponents; its conception of the prophet as a soothsayer; its idea of the continuity of the spirit of messiah, are so absolutely Jewish that the movement can easily be regarded as a return to early Judaism. Professor Buber who has given an account of the movement initiated by the Polish Messiah Baalshem tells us that "it was thought that the spirit of the Messiah descended upon the earth through the prophets and even though a long line of holy men stretching into the present time - the Zaddiks" (Sadiq). Heretical movements in Muslim Iran under the pressure of Pre-Islamic Magian ideas invented the words buruz, hulul, zill, to cover this idea of a perpetual reincarnation. It was necessary to invent new expressions for a Magian idea in order to make it less shocking to Muslim conscience. Even the phrase "Promised Messiah" is not a product of Muslim religious consciousness. It is a bastard expression and has its origin in the Pre-Islamic Magian outlook.

We do not find it in early Islamic religious and historical literature. This remarkable fact is revealed by Professor Wensinck's Concordance of the Traditions of the Holy Prophet, which covers no less than eleven collections of the traditions and three of the earliest historical documents of Islam. One can very well understand the reasons why early Muslims never used this expression. The expression did not appeal to them probably because they thought that it implied a false conception of the historical process. The Magian mind regarded time as a circular movement, the glory of elucidation, the true nature of the historical process as a perpetually creative movement was reserved for the great Muslim thinker and historian, Ibn Khaldun.

The intensity of feeling which the Indian Muslims have manifested in opposition to the Quadiani movement is, therefore, perfectly intelligible to the student of modern sociology. The average Muslim who was the other day describes as "Mulla-ridden" by a writer in The Civil and Military Gazette is inspired in his opposition to the movement more by his instinct of self-preservation than by a fuller grasp called "enlightened"' Muslin has seldom made an attempt to understand the real cultural significance of the idea of Finality in Islam, and a process of slow and imperceptible westernisation has further deprived him even of the instinct of self-preservation. Some so-called enlightened Muslims have gone to the extent of preaching "tolerance' to their brethren-in-faith. I can easily excuse Sir Herbert Emerson for preaching toleration to Muslims; for a modern European who is born and brought up in an entirely different culture does not, and perhaps cannot, develop the insight which makes it possible for one to understand an issue vital to the very structure of a community with an entirely different cultural outlook.

In India circumstances are much more peculiar. This country of religious communities, where the future of each community rests entirely upon its solidarity, is ruled by a Western people who cannot but adopt a policy of non-interference in religion. This liberal and indispensable policy in a country like India has led to most unfortunate results. In so far as Islam is concerned, it is no exaggeration to say that the solidarity of the Muslim community in India under the British is far less safe than the solidarity of the Jewish community was in the days of Jesus under the Romans. Any religious adventurer in India can set up any claim and carve out a new community for his own exploration. This liberal State of ours does not care a fig for integrity of a parent community, provided the adventurer assures it of his loyalty and his followers are regular in the payment of taxes due to the State. The meaning of this policy for Islam was quite accurately seen by our great poet Akbar who in his usual humorous strain says:

O friend! pray for the glory of the Briton's name:
Say, "I am God" sans chain, sans cross, sans shame.


I very much appreciate the orthodox Hindus' demand for protection against religious reformers in the new constitution. Indeed, the demand ought to have been first made by the Muslims who. unlike Hindus, entirely eliminate the race idea from their social structure. The Government must seriously consider the present situation and try, if possible, to understand the mentality of the absolutely vital to the integrity of his community. After all, if the integrity of a community is threatened, the only course open to that community is to defend itself against the forces of disintegration.

And what are the ways of self-defense?

Controversial writings and refutation of the claims of the man who is regarded by the parent community as a religious adventurer. Is it then fair to preach toleration to the parent community whose integrity is threatened and to allow the rebellious group to carry on its propaganda with impunity, even when the propaganda is highly abusive?

If a group, rebellious from the point of view of the parent community, happens to be of some special service to Government, the latter are at liberty to reward their services as best as they can. Other communities will not grudge it. But the forces which tend seriously to affect its collective life. collective life is as sensitive to the danger of dissolution as individual life. It is hardly necessary to add in this connection that the mutual theological bickerings of Muslim sects do not affect vital principles on which all these sects agree with all their differences in spite of their mutual accusation of heresy.

There is one further point which demands Government's special consideration. The encouragement in India of religious adventurers, on the ground of modern liberalism, tends to make people more and more indifferent to religion and will eventually completely eliminate the important factor of religion from the life of Indian communities. The Indian mind is likely to be nothing less than the form of atheistic materialism which has appeared in Russia.

But the religious issue is not the only issue which is at present agitating the minds of the Punjab Muslims. There are other quarrels of a political nature which, according to my reading, Sir Herbert Emerson hinted in his speech at the Anjuman's anniversary. These are, no doubt, of a purely political nature, but they affect the unity of Punjab Muslims as seriously as the religious issue. While thanking the Government for their anxiety to see the Punjab Muslims united, I venture to suggest a little self-examination to the Government themselves. Who is responsible, I ask, for the distinction of rural and urban Muslims - a distinction which has cut up the Muslim community into two groups and the rural group into several sub-groups constantly at war with one another?

Sir Herbert Emerson deplores the lack of proper leadership among the Punjab Muslims. But I wish Sir Herbert Emerson realised that the rural-urban distinction created by the Government and maintained by them through ambitious political adventurers, whose eyes are fixed on their own personal interests and not on the unity of Islam in the Punjab, had already made the community incapable of producing a real leader. It appears to me that this device probably originated in a desire rather to make it impossible for real leadership to grow. Sir Herbert Emerson deplores the lack of leadership in Muslims; I deplore the continuation by the Government of a system which has crushed out all hope of a real leader appearing in the province.

Postscript. I understands that this statement has caused some misunderstanding in some quarters. It is thought that I have made a subtle suggestion to the Government to suppress the Qadiani movement by force. Nothing of the kind. I have made it clear that the policy of non-interference in religion is the only policy which can be adopted by the rulers of India. No other is possible policy is possible. I confess, however, that to my mind this policy is harmful to the interests of religious communities; but there is no escape from it and those who suffer will have to safeguard their interests by suitable means. The best course for the rulers of India is, in my opinion, to declare the Qadianis a separate community. This will be perfectly consistent with the policy of the Qadianis themselves, and the Indian Muslim will tolerate them just as he tolerates other religions.

The cultural value of the idea of finality in Islam I have fully explained elsewhere, its meaning is simple: No spiritual surrender to any human being after Muhammad (pbuh) who emancipated his followers by giving them a law which is realisable as arising from the very core of human conscience. Theologically, the doctrine is that: the socio-political organisation called "Islam" is perfect and eternal. No revelation the denial of which entails heresy is possible after Muhammad (pbuh). He who claims such a revelation is a traitor to Islam. Since the Qadianis believe the founder of the Ahmadiyyah movement to be the bearer of such a revelation, they declare that the entire world of Islam is Infidel. The founder's own argument, quite worthy of a medieval theologian, is that the spirituality of the Holy Prophet of Islam must be regarded as imperfect if it is not creative of another prophet. He claims his own prophethood to be an evidence of the prophet-rearing power of the spirituality of the Holy Prophet of Islam. But if you further ask him whether the spirituality of Muhammad (pbuh) is capable of rearing more prophets than one, his answer is "No". This virtually amounts to saying: "Muhammad (pbuh) is not the last Prophet: I am the last." Far from understanding the cultural value of the Islamic idea of finality in the history of mankind generally and of Asia especially, he thinks that finality in the sense that no follower of Muhammad (pbuh) can ever reach the status of prophethood is a mark of imperfection in Muhammad's (pbuh)prophethood. As I read the psychology of his mind he, in the interest of his own claim to prophethood avails himself of what he describes as the creative spirituality of the Holy Prophet of Islam and, at the same time, deprives the Holy Prophet of his "finality" by limiting the creative capacity of his spirituality of the rearing of only one prophet, i.e. the founder of the Ahmadiyyah movement. In this way does the new prophet quietly steal away the "finality" of one whom he claims to be his spiritual progenitor. He claims to be a buruz of the Holy Prophet of Islam insinuating thereby that, being a buruz of him, his "finality" is virtually the "finality" of Muhammad (pbuh); and that this view of the matter, therefore, does not violate the "finality" of the Holy Prophet. In identifying the two finalities, his own and that of the Holy Prophet, he conveniently loses sight of the temporal meaning of the idea of Finality. It is, however, obvious that the word buruz, in the sense even complete likeness, cannot help him at all; for the buruz must always remain the other side of its original. Only in the sense of reincarnation a buruz becomes identical with original. Thus if we take the word buruz to mean "like in spiritual qualities" the argument remains ineffective; if, on the other hand, we take it to mean reincarnation of the original in the Aryan sense of the word, the argument becomes plausible; but its author turns out to be only a magian in disguise. It is further claimed on the authority of the great Muslim mystic, Muhyuddin ibn Arabi of Spain, that it is possible for a Muslim saint to attain, in his spiritual evolution, to the kind of experience characteristic of the prophetic consciousness. I personally believe this view of Shaikh Muhyuddin ibn Arabi to be psychologically unsound: but assuming it to be correct the Qadiani argument is based on a complete misunderstanding of his exact position. The Shaikh regards it as a purely private achievement which does not, and in the nature of things cannot, entitle such a saint to declare that all those who do not believe in him are outside the pale of Islam. Indeed, from the Shaikh's point of view, there may be more than one saint, living in the same age or country, who may attain to prophet consciousness. The point to be seized is that, while it is psychologically possible for a saint to attain to prophetic experience, his experience will have no socio-political significance making him the centre of a new organisation and entitling him to declare this organisation to be the criterion of the faith or disbelief of the followers of Muhammad (pbuh). Leaving his mystical psychology aside I am convinced from a careful study of the relevant passages of the "Futuhat" that the great Spanish mystic is as a firm a believer in the Finality of Muhammad (pbuh) as any orthodox Muslim. And if he had seen in his mystical vision that one day in the East some Indian amateurs in Sufism would seek to destroy the Holy Prophet's Finality under cover of his mystical psychology, he would have certainly anticipated the Indian Ulama in warning the Muslims of the world against such traitors to Islam.

Indian Muslims and Partition of India by SM Ikram is also a MUST READ on this important issue.
Iqbal gave awareness on the subject to people. Ahmedis are not Muslim by our standards, but this is a highly personal matter, nothing that the government can proclaim.
 
Iqbal gave awareness on the subject to people. Ahmedis are not Muslim by our standards, but this is a highly personal matter, nothing that the government can proclaim.
It is not highly personal matter otherwise a person of Iqbal's stature would have never requested the British Indian Government to declare Qadianis as a separate community:

"The best course for the rulers of India is, in my opinion, to declare the Qadianis a separate community".
 
Yes Allah the Almighty will judge me and Inshallah the tyrants will rot in hell.
InshaAllah is a compound word made up of Insha = will and Allah. With your 'Inshallah' where if there is 'Insha' there is no 'Allah', and if there is 'allah', there is no will, its unlikely that your tyrants will rot in the hell.
 
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