Does US install secret sensors in military equipment given to Pakistan?

[dbc]

Today no fighter jet in the world can compete JF-17 thunder's Performance and Price tag and home production options.
If i am not mistaken if Pakistan and China Take Thunder program's export seriously all of those Mig-21's ( about 8000+) Mig-23's Older sukhoi's Mirages and F-5 E , F-4 Phantoms can be replaced by this Affordable fighter .

It will generate a hell lots of money which can be put back into the production
and for 5th generation fighter.

Hence in my opinion the only way Pakistan should follow is the way of
Indigenous Production of all major Military hardware.

Regards:

Sounds like a good plan , so what's holding you back?

 

[KillBill]

Well.. Possible, AFAIK, all these devices use GPS as their positioning and navigation system.

1. GPS is maintained and controlled by US.

2. There is provision in GPS protocol to block it for enemy countries when ever there are any conflicts.

3. Without a proper tracking and monitoring system all defence stuff is useless

So, basically whether they have put any bug in or not is not the problem when they can do it with blocking GPS...

THe exact same reason why many other are now developing their own navigation system

1. European union - Galileo ( under development )
2. China - Beidou and Compass (Beidou is experimental and Compass is proposed, not implemented yet)
3. GLONASS - Russia and India ( Complete and operational)
4. IRNSS - India indigeneously developed ( currently covers only ASIA and Indian Ocean)

So unless we break the dependency on GPS we can not say we wont be framed by US in future.

 

[Sinnerman108]

Well.. Possible, AFAIK, all these devices use GPS as their positioning and navigation system.

1. GPS is maintained and controlled by US.

2. There is provision in GPS protocol to block it for enemy countries when ever there are any conflicts.

3. Without a proper tracking and monitoring system all defence stuff is useless

So, basically whether they have put any bug in or not is not the problem when they can do it with blocking GPS...

THe exact same reason why many other are now developing their own navigation system

1. European union - Galileo ( under development )
2. China - Beidou and Compass (Beidou is experimental and Compass is proposed, not implemented yet)
3. GLONASS - Russia and India ( Complete and operational)
4. IRNSS - India indigeneously developed ( currently covers only ASIA and Indian Ocean)

So unless we break the dependency on GPS we can not say we wont be framed by US in future.

GPS alone may not be the only problem.
It can be jammed by countries other than US too using off the shelf equipment.

I know for a fact that PAF favors Inertial guidance to GPS because they don't trust it.

But coming back to the original idea, I have worked with a lot of equipment and I have been skeptical always of such "Kill buttons"
Personally I have no doubt in my mind that US installs

1. Tracking mechanisms.
2. Kill buttons.
On most of the equipment.

Such contraptions may be integrated on board the same ship board as engine control etc, and thus is very very hard to detect or disable.

I think PAF or any other air force for that matter should spend some effort to develop technology to detect such kill buttons.

 

[Super Falcon]

well i also use to think this but USA will do it again im sure i hope we be carfull and what we get we should insects it from Screw to cockpit

 

[gambit]

Old news but it can address forum members' concerns

China finds spy bugs in Jiang's Boeing jet - Telegraph

- CHINA claims to have found almost 30 surveillance bugs, including one in the headboard of the presidential bed, on a Boeing 767 that had just been delivered from America to serve as President Jiang Zemin's official aircraft.

- A search of the twin-engined aircraft, which was manufactured and fitted out in America, yielded 27 devices, according to Chinese officials, hidden in its seats, lavatory and panelling.

- It was customised for the Chinese president by the San Antonio-based company.

- Army scientists will now have the opportunity to "reverse engineer" the latest in American surveillance equipment.

Is that all? Now...When you think about this lunacy...Consider this to be a test where each type of 'bug' is incrementally more difficult to find than the previous. Of course you can argue that China found all of them but left some behind to deceive US of China's electronic entomological detection capability.

 

[pak-yes]

Yaaar why is everybody not taking this topic seriously and joking.I mean america claims we have this surveillance device we have that surveillance device so can't they put something in such complex machines like F16 and huge ships.I know that Americans may not have the interest in discussing it.But you know what America are such cunning enemy they can not be trusted and will do anything and everything to complete their agenda.

 

[Veer]

Well.. Possible, AFAIK, all these devices use GPS as their positioning and navigation system.

1. GPS is maintained and controlled by US.

2. There is provision in GPS protocol to block it for enemy countries when ever there are any conflicts.

3. Without a proper tracking and monitoring system all defence stuff is useless

So, basically whether they have put any bug in or not is not the problem when they can do it with blocking GPS...

So unless we break the dependency on GPS we can not say we wont be framed by US in future.

Why BrahMos failed its test

RAJEEV BHATT

Brahmos missiles on display at the Army Day parade in New Delhi.

SUCCESS stories at the Defence Research and Development Organisation are occasionally interspersed with failure. An experiment on January 20 was one such.

The supersonic cruise missile BrahMos missed the target at the Army’s range at Pokhran in Rajasthan because its global positioning system (GPS) blanked out, said DRDO officials. The American satellites that run the GPS had been switched off on the day Barack Obama was sworn in the United States President, they said. The missile, therefore, travelled for 112 seconds instead of the slated 84 seconds and fell 7 km away from the target.

The officials could not say whether the Americans had deliberately switched off the GPS satellites to test whether India’s missile mission would be a success without them. They conceded that it was possible to switch off GPS-linked satellites selectively. The failure of the mission, therefore, has underlined the need for India to have its own GPS-linked satellites instead of depending on American or Russian constellations, said an official.

BrahMos, jointly developed by India and Russia, is essentially an anti-ship missile. It can hit targets 290 km away, and can cruise at a particular altitude at Mach 3 (three times the speed of sound). BrahMos is the only missile in the world, according to the DRDO, that can hit targets both in sea and on land, without any change in its hardware; only the software in the missile’s computer has to be changed.

Officials of the DRDO described the January 20 mission as a difficult one because the target was just 50 km away instead of the normal 290 km. The missile, launched in a land-attack mode, had to hit a particular target out of a cluster of targets. The Army insisted that the error in hitting the target, which resembled a chemical weapons factory, could not exceed one metre. Reflectors had been installed to mislead the missile.

The DRDO, therefore, made a new seeker for the missile to meet this challenge. A software was developed with a new algorithm, which was to help the missile reach the target by using the GPS data obtained from the U.S. satellites. The mission demanded that the missile’s inertial navigation system (INS), its GPS receiver and its seeker should all work together.

But there were constraints on the mission. A DRDO official said: “When the missile is flying very fast, it is difficult to perform manoeuvres…. The GPS data did not come in time, so the INS data with its uncorrected error was taken as the reference and we missed the target.”

A repeat mission on March 4, with the American GPS-linked satellites turned on, was a success.

T.S. Subramanian

India is building its IRNSS - India indigeneously developed ( currently covers only ASIA and Indian Ocean)
GLONASS - Russia and India ( Complete and operational)

 

[KillBill]

Why BrahMos failed its test

RAJEEV BHATT

The supersonic cruise missile BrahMos missed the target at the Army’s range at Pokhran in Rajasthan because its global positioning system (GPS) blanked out, said DRDO officials. The American satellites that run the GPS had been switched off on the day Barack Obama was sworn in the United States President, they said. The missile, therefore, travelled for 112 seconds instead of the slated 84 seconds and fell 7 km away from the target.

The officials could not say whether the Americans had deliberately switched off the GPS satellites to test whether India’s missile mission would be a success without them. They conceded that it was possible to switch off GPS-linked satellites selectively. The failure of the mission, therefore, has underlined the need for India to have its own GPS-linked satellites instead of depending on American or Russian constellations, said an official.

The DRDO, therefore, made a new seeker for the missile to meet this challenge. A software was developed with a new algorithm, which was to help the missile reach the target by using the GPS data obtained from the U.S. satellites. The mission demanded that the missile’s inertial navigation system (INS), its GPS receiver and its seeker should all work together.

But there were constraints on the mission. A DRDO official said: “When the missile is flying very fast, it is difficult to perform manoeuvres…. The GPS data did not come in time, so the INS data with its uncorrected error was taken as the reference and we missed the target.”

A repeat mission on March 4, with the American GPS-linked satellites turned on, was a success.

T.S. Subramanian

India is building its IRNSS - India indigeneously developed ( currently covers only ASIA and Indian Ocean)
GLONASS - Russia and India ( Complete and operational)

Exactly my Point, Thanks Veer. You provided a substantial proof to my hypothesis. Its high time to move away from US controlled GPS system and to complete GLONASS and IRNSS fast. We should use these in our defence system and the civilian devices can still use GPS.

We already have 5 satellites for the IRNSS while 27 are in place for GPS. It will take time and money to put all those satellites in place, the sooner the better.

 

[pak-yes]

Pls my dear INDIAN fellows stop derailing the thread this thread was for discussing spy equipment given to pakistan not to discuss indian defence procurements.You can make a seprate thread for it in INDIAN section.

 

[KillBill]

Pls my dear INDIAN fellows stop derailing the thread this thread was for discussing spy equipment given to pakistan not to discuss indian defence procurements.You can make a seprate thread for it in INDIAN section.

We are not discussing any INDIAN PROCUREMENTS. We are right on topic, as I pointed out and later Veer and Salman proved that GPS malfunctioning alone can pose a huge threat, let alone any Spy Bug.

We are right on topic and discussing it, your point now please?

 

[TruthSeeker]

The supersonic cruise missile BrahMos missed the target at the Army’s range at Pokhran in Rajasthan because its global positioning system (GPS) blanked out, said DRDO officials. The American satellites that run the GPS had been switched off on the day Barack Obama was sworn in the United States President, they said. The missile, therefore, travelled for 112 seconds instead of the slated 84 seconds and fell 7 km away from the target.

If this is true, do you think it would be possible for someone usflag who controlled the GPS system to also cause false GPS signals that would steer a guidance system way off course, like into a nearby country or even backwards to the originating country? Or is the GPS only used for fine tuning, a few kilometers worth of the aiming point?

 

[KillBill]

If this is true, do you think it would be possible for someone usflag who controlled the GPS system to also cause false GPS signals that would steer a guidance system way off course, like into a nearby country or even backwards to the originating country? Or is the GPS only used for fine tuning, a few kilometers worth of the aiming point?

The GPS systems I have worked with ( civilian use), have the resolution of 10 meters (Normal ones) and 5 meters (the high precision ones). Don't know if further resolution is attainable. A few Km is way too coarse target to start with...

 

[Gazzi]

If this is true, do you think it would be possible for someone usflag who controlled the GPS system to also cause false GPS signals that would steer a guidance system way off course, like into a nearby country or even backwards to the originating country? Or is the GPS only used for fine tuning, a few kilometers worth of the aiming point?

I bet the US has already thought of that long before anyone here.

Truth being told, the US is so far ahead in technology that no other comes even close to it, doesn;t matter hwo big anyone boasts about their economy or any other comparative measure they wish to place, the US is not matched anbd wouldn;t be too surprisded if the technology used to bug, track or monitor techonoligcal equipment is not even disclosed and a totally new design and layout, not known to anyone as yet. GPS, GLONASS, IRNSS or the likes are just predated for US scientists by now

 

[Kompromat]

Sounds like a good plan , so what's holding you back?

First order has been received and there is nothing holding us back but currently the lack of Extended production facility.

18 Countries are currently on the line to buy Thunder and i am optimistic Pakistan's Aviation production will be increased enough to meet our National demands as well as Export orders.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Americans just playing games to keep the chinese on their toes. Same thing with the chinese---knowing what the americans would do, why a boeing then---why not an air bus---.

If the americans did it, it was silly---the chinese will make them pay in due time.