Does Himachal Pradhesh count as part of the Indus region?

[Cobra Arbok]

And just for clarification, my position is that we are different, but have some similarities. Some regions more than others. South India(bar Hyderabad) has almost nothing with Pakistan. Neither does Bengal and NE India. Neither does Balochistan and KP in Pak. But Sindha, Punjab, Kashmir and GB and Western, Northwestern, and Northern India do have similarities, even if it is mainly due to history.

 

[MultaniGuy]

Why are you bringing up Pakistani Punjab? Did I mention it? This thread is about Himachal Pradesh and its similarity to Pakistan, and I and several members provided detailed, in depth answers. You have done nothing to counter the points raised in this thread and instead turn to off topic points and one-liners.
And what is the difference between pak and India Punjab other than religion?


I don't think you know the meaning of culture. Culture is more than religion. But I am interested in having you explain yourself rather than the other way around.

Alright let's talk about culture then.
Do we share the same languages? Nope

Do we share the same ethnicities? Nope

Do we share the same dress and food? Nope.

 

[Cobra Arbok]

Nice try. Himachali Pradesh used to be part of Indian Punjab before Indian Punjab was also divided into Haryana.

I have countered your points.

You mention regions which both countries may share commonalities. And that is Pakistani Punjab and Indian Punjab before it was separated.

You did not read the thread. I already described the differences between HP and Punjab. Also, HP was only under Punjab under the British. Before that it was ruled by Independent states.

 

[MultaniGuy]

And just for clarification, my position is that we are different, but have some similarities. Some regions more than others. South India(bar Hyderabad) has almost nothing with Pakistan. Neither does Bengal and NE India. Neither does Balochistan and KP in Pak. But Sindha, Punjab, Kashmir and GB and Western, Northwestern, and Northern India do have similarities, even if it is mainly due to history.

You did not read the thread. I already described the differences between HP and Punjab. Also, HP was only under Punjab under the British. Before that it was ruled by Independent states.

Himachali Pradesh was still part of the Punjab region. Stop beating around the bush when I convincingly countered your point. Time for you to be honest now.

You did not read the thread. I already described the differences between HP and Punjab. Also, HP was only under Punjab under the British. Before that it was ruled by Independent states.

You cleverly evaded my post about culture. Which shows your intellectual dishonesty that you cherry pick which posts to reply to.
What do we have in common culturally?

Do we speak the same languages?
Do we share the same ethnicities?
Do we share the same dress and food?
The answer to all three is no.

Whatever little we share is just history.

 

[Cobra Arbok]

Alright let's talk about culture then.
Do we share the same languages? Nope

Do we share the same ethnicities? Nope

Do we share the same dress and food? Nope.

The largest language family in our countries are Indo-Aryan. Our most common language is Hindi, Yours is Urdu. Both are considered very similar by linguists. Also, Urdu was developed in UP.
SOME(not all) of our ethnicities have similarities. For example, Gujaraties and Rajastanis have similarity to Sindhis, and Himachalis, Paharis, and Dogris share similarities to Kasmir.
As for same food, let me remind you 70% of India is non veg, despite what you hear about isolated incidents of Cow vigilantes. Do you eat Rotis? Parathas? Dal? Naan? Sabzi? Those are commonly eaten in most Indian states.
Let me ask you this. Spain and Italy speak different languages. Eat different food. Yet do they have nothing in common?

Himachali Pradesh was still part of the Punjab region. Stop beating around the bush when I convincingly countered your point. Time for you to be honest now.


You cleverly evaded my post about culture.
What do we have in common culturally?

Do we speak the same languages?
Do we share the se ethnicities?
Do we share the same dress and food?
The answer to all three is no.

If you go by those black and white descriptions, than no two countries have similarities. Name me two countries that Eat EXACTLY the same food and speak EXACTLY the same language. I will wait.

And how many times do I have to repeat I do not think India and Pakistan are the same? I have accepted that they are different. Why cant you accept that there are more similarities than you think?

As for your comments about HP, then India and Pakistan are exactly the same because they were a part of British India @Indus Pakistan

 

[MultaniGuy]

The largest language family in our countries are Indo-Aryan. Our most common language is Hindi, Yours is Urdu. Both are considered very similar by linguists. Also, Urdu was developed in UP.
SOME(not all) of our ethnicities have similarities. For example, Gujaraties and Rajastanis have similarity to Sindhis, and Himachalis, Paharis, and Dogris share similarities to Kasmir.
As for same food, let me remind you 70% of India is non veg, despite what you hear about isolated incidents of Cow vigilantes. Do you eat Rotis? Parathas? Dal? Naan? Sabzi? Those are commonly eaten in most Indian states.
Let me ask you this. Spain and Italy speak different languages. Eat different food. Yet do they have nothing in common?

My dear guest, do you eat beef?

Secondly Urdu has quite different vocabulary to Hindi . Both languages use different scripts.

Sindhis are quite different to Gujaratis and
Rajasthanis is.

The largest language family in our countries are Indo-Aryan. Our most common language is Hindi, Yours is Urdu. Both are considered very similar by linguists. Also, Urdu was developed in UP.
SOME(not all) of our ethnicities have similarities. For example, Gujaraties and Rajastanis have similarity to Sindhis, and Himachalis, Paharis, and Dogris share similarities to Kasmir.
As for same food, let me remind you 70% of India is non veg, despite what you hear about isolated incidents of Cow vigilantes. Do you eat Rotis? Parathas? Dal? Naan? Sabzi? Those are commonly eaten in most Indian states.
Let me ask you this. Spain and Italy speak different languages. Eat different food. Yet do they have nothing in common?


If you go by those black and white descriptions, than no two countries have similarities. Name me two countries that Eat EXACTLY the same food and speak EXACTLY the same language. I will wait.

And how many times do I have to repeat I do not think India and Pakistan are the same? I have accepted that they are different. Why cant you accept that there are more similarities than you think?

As for your comments about HP, then India and Pakistan are exactly the same because they were a part of British India @Indus Pakistan

You are not making much sense. Himachali Pradesh was part of the administrative unit of Punjab. Pakistan,India, and Myanmar were administered into smaller administrative units, not as wholes.

The largest language family in our countries are Indo-Aryan. Our most common language is Hindi, Yours is Urdu. Both are considered very similar by linguists. Also, Urdu was developed in UP.
SOME(not all) of our ethnicities have similarities. For example, Gujaraties and Rajastanis have similarity to Sindhis, and Himachalis, Paharis, and Dogris share similarities to Kasmir.
As for same food, let me remind you 70% of India is non veg, despite what you hear about isolated incidents of Cow vigilantes. Do you eat Rotis? Parathas? Dal? Naan? Sabzi? Those are commonly eaten in most Indian states.
Let me ask you this. Spain and Italy speak different languages. Eat different food. Yet do they have nothing in common?


If you go by those black and white descriptions, than no two countries have similarities. Name me two countries that Eat EXACTLY the same food and speak EXACTLY the same language. I will wait.

And how many times do I have to repeat I do not think India and Pakistan are the same? I have accepted that they are different. Why cant you accept that there are more similarities than you think?

As for your comments about HP, then India and Pakistan are exactly the same because they were a part of British India @Indus Pakistan

USA,UK,Australia speak the same language.

 

[Cobra Arbok]

My dear guest, do you eat beef?

Secondly Urdu has quite different vocabulary to Hindi . Both languages use different scripts.

Sindhis are quite different to Gujaratis and
Rajasthan is.

You completely missed my points. When did I say Hindi and Urdu are Exactly the same? and script does not matter. Persian and Tajik are written in different scripts, but they are very similar.
And I am vegetarian, which makes me in the minority of Indians. BUt that is beside the point.
Gujarat and Sindh have historically had more in common with Sindh than other parts of India until the MAratha period, I addressed that in my history of Gujaratis thread. My mother actually comes from a family of Gujaratis in Sindh, just like Jinnah.

The problem is you think in absolutes. You think just because two countries/cultures/ethnicities are exactly the same, they share nothing in common. Aside from religion, Spain and Italy share the same differences our countries do, does that mean they have nothing in common?

And no, I do not think we are as similar as Spaniards and Italians,

My dear guest, do you eat beef?

Secondly Urdu has quite different vocabulary to Hindi . Both languages use different scripts.

Sindhis are quite different to Gujaratis and
Rajasthanis is.


You are not making much sense. Himachali Pradesh was part of the administrative unit of Punjab. Pakistan,India, and Myanmar were administered into smaller administrative units, not as wholes.


USA,UK,Australia speak the same language.

I did not mention the US, UK, and AUstrailia. I mentioned Spain and Italy. Now answer my question, do Spain and Italy have nothing in common?

As for what you said about administrative units, Gujarat was part of the Bombay Unit. Does that mean Gujaratis and Marathis are exactly the same? Throughout the British Raj, the brits broke up provinces into smaller and smaller pieces to match cultural and religious lines. That does not mean these cultures do not share similarities to each other.
BTW, Pakistan was administered under British India unlike Burma, so I do not know why you brought that up.

 

[MultaniGuy]

You completely missed my points. When did I say Hindi and Urdu are Exactly the same? and script does not matter. Persian and Tajik are written in different scripts, but they are very similar.
And I am vegetarian, which makes me in the minority of Indians. BUt that is beside the point.
Gujarat and Sindh have historically had more in common with Sindh than other parts of India until the MAratha period, I addressed that in my history of Gujaratis thread. My mother actually comes from a family of Gujaratis in Sindh, just like Jinnah.

The problem is you think in absolutes. You think just because two countries/cultures/ethnicities are exactly the same, they share nothing in common. Aside from religion, Spain and Italy share the same differences our countries do, does that mean they have nothing in common?

And no, I do not think we are as similar as Spaniards and Italians,

Wait a minute there. You said Urdu and Hindi are similar. I say they are completely different languages.
Persian and Tajik are the same language. Urdu and Hindi are not.

I said whatever little we share is just history.

But culturally we are more different.

You completely missed my points. When did I say Hindi and Urdu are Exactly the same? and script does not matter. Persian and Tajik are written in different scripts, but they are very similar.
And I am vegetarian, which makes me in the minority of Indians. BUt that is beside the point.
Gujarat and Sindh have historically had more in common with Sindh than other parts of India until the MAratha period, I addressed that in my history of Gujaratis thread. My mother actually comes from a family of Gujaratis in Sindh, just like Jinnah.

The problem is you think in absolutes. You think just because two countries/cultures/ethnicities are exactly the same, they share nothing in common. Aside from religion, Spain and Italy share the same differences our countries do, does that mean they have nothing in common?

And no, I do not think we are as similar as Spaniards and Italians,


I did not mention the US, UK, and AUstrailia. I mentioned Spain and Italy. Now answer my question, do Spain and Italy have nothing in common?

As for what you said about administrative units, Gujarat was part of the Bombay Unit. Does that mean Gujaratis and Marathis are exactly the same? Throughout the British Raj, the brits broke up provinces into smaller and smaller pieces to match cultural and religious lines. That does not mean these cultures do not share similarities to each other.
BTW, Pakistan was administered under British India unlike Burma, so I do not know why you brought that up.

You are correct that Myanmar was eventually administered as a different whole unit I think in the 1930s. I cannot remember. But in the begining Myanmar was part of the British Raj empire.

It was a pleasure talking to you @Cobra Arbok . But I have to go now.

Obviously all neighbours share something in common. But the differences that Pakistan and India have are greater than the similarities.

Now Regards.

 

[Cobra Arbok]

Wait a minute there. You said Urdu and Hindi are similar. I say they are completely different languages.
Persian and Tajik are the same language. Urdu and Hindi are not.

I said whatever little we share is just history.

But culturally we are more different.


You are correct that Myanmar was eventually administered as a different whole unit I think in the 1930s. I cannot remember. But in the begining Myanmar was part of the British Raj empire.

Once again you are getting bogged down by details and missing the point. The point was that scripts does not matter. Hindi and Urdu have similarities, but are written in different scripts. The reverse is also true. Russian and Mongolian are completely different, but are written in the same script.

At least we agree on one thing. My position is that there are ultimately two MAIN factors that make us different. These differences are also responsible for those cultural differences you mention.

Religion and Post-independence history
However, I believe that although culture is influenced by religion, they are two separate things. I have already pointed out some of the cultureal similarities between India and Pakistan, and provided a different example for context. And I said these similarities only apply to SOME region. Obviously, South, East, and NE India have nothing in common with Pakistan, and Balochistan and KP have little in common with india.

Wait a minute there. You said Urdu and Hindi are similar. I say they are completely different languages.
Persian and Tajik are the same language. Urdu and Hindi are not.

I said whatever little we share is just history.

But culturally we are more different.


You are correct that Myanmar was eventually administered as a different whole unit I think in the 1930s. I cannot remember. But in the begining Myanmar was part of the British Raj empire.

It was a pleasure talking to you @Cobra Arbok . But I have to go now.

Obviously all neighbours share something in common. But the differences that Pakistan and India have are greater than the similarities.

Now Regards.

Sometimes you just have to agree to disagree. I agree the extent of similarities vs. differences is debatable. But I am glad we were able to have a somewhat productive conversation. I hope you at least UNDERSTAND my point even if you don't agree. I look forward to talking to you again.

 

[lastofthepatriots]

I am Punjabi and I don't even feel similarities between other Punjabis in Pakistan. Whenever I meet Sikhs in US they feel like aliens to me.

 

[Shamsher1990]

You dolt I have a right to my opinion .


Now shoo

Prof. Emeritus has a right to his opinion as well.

Lol at yourself you dolt

Opinion is not reality. And opinion of an expert is far closer to reality than that of a dolt, you dolt,

You can have an opinion on swine-aerodynamics but that won't make pigs fly, you dolt

 

[Shamsher1990]

You completely missed my points. When did I say Hindi and Urdu are Exactly the same? and script does not matter. Persian and Tajik are written in different scripts, but they are very similar.
And I am vegetarian, which makes me in the minority of Indians. BUt that is beside the point.
Gujarat and Sindh have historically had more in common with Sindh than other parts of India until the MAratha period, I addressed that in my history of Gujaratis thread. My mother actually comes from a family of Gujaratis in Sindh, just like Jinnah.

The problem is you think in absolutes. You think just because two countries/cultures/ethnicities are exactly the same, they share nothing in common. Aside from religion, Spain and Italy share the same differences our countries do, does that mean they have nothing in common?

And no, I do not think we are as similar as Spaniards and Italians,

His problem is much more simpler one. He wants reality to follow his wishes and opinions. Needless to say that does not how it works.

 

[MultaniGuy]

Opinion is not reality. And opinion of an expert is far closer to reality than that of a dolt, you dolt,

You can have an opinion on swine-aerodynamics but that won't make pigs fly, you dolt

My opinion reflects the on ground facts and reality, you dolt.

 

[Shamsher1990]

My opinion reflects the on ground facts and reality, you dolt.

Ground realities? Of Pakistan? By sitting in Canada? Sounds legit!

 

[TurnThyCheek]

@Cobra Arbok My questions so far is how does the caste system work exactly? I've noticed while reading on various tribes etc that they start out as one caste and over time become another, for example ive seen some go from Jat to Rajput or Brahmin to Rajput or the other way round Rajput to Jat etc etc
How does the castes change over time? Give me a basic understand of it please?