chinapakistan
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I dont know this, doest the nationalist party of china in china have any connection with the nationalist party of china in Taiwan?
Do Young Taiwanese want to Reunify With China?
- Thread starter Martian2
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I dont know this, doest the nationalist party of china in china have any connection with the nationalist party of china in Taiwan?
below_freezing
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yes but it is a minor party under leadership of CPC. still use same flag otherwise no connection.
Speeder 2
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wtf do you know? you speak Chinese? do you undertand a hoot about Chinese culture that provides a deep bond amongst ethnic Han Chinese everywhere in the world? How many Taiwanese you've met and talked with in Singapore? 5? 10? 15? how do you measure their true opinions? ...
Utter bullock!
Speeder 2
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Chinese culture is amazingly resillient among overseas Chinese, no matter which country/region he/she is from. Guess what, the most patriotic ethnic Chinese I 've met in Europe (they are many) are probabaly those ethnic Malaysian Chinese, who are at least the same patriotic towards the maninland in my experiences. for example, In the pre-Olympics rallies I 've seen, some of them were much more vocal than the mainland students.
I know many young Taiwanese myself in Europe throughout the years. I can comfortablely say that most have no real issue with mainland China, particularly Han Chinese. Almost all overseas Chinese organisations here in Europe as far as I know include Taiwanese memebers and indeed there're many, some of them of new immigrants. One can meet plenty of Taiwanese in yearly Chinese festival celebrations/gatherings, being in France, the UK or even Amsterdam or Barcelona. Here among Chinese communities in the UK, for example, some of most active voices of promoting united Chinese culture are Taiwanese. One of the recent popular weekly TV cooking show host ( from Channel 5 "Chinese Food in Minutes" I think, you can see the shows in youtube also) is a young Taiwanese lady called Chin. The price draw of her show is reward of a trip to mainland China, not Taiwan, see the delicate difference?
In my expericens, the main grudge that most Taiwanese have is CPC for its corruption. However, CPC either would likely to be gone or significantly improved within 50 years time, or in considerablely shorter timespan.
Lastly but not the least, it all boils down to the economy development statue of the mainland. I recently read somewhere that more than a dozen huge population urban centers in the mainland China have surpassed $10,000 per cap GDP and growth are still strong, in a decade or so, when most part of urban mainland Chinese reached $10,000 per cap, then some of the most developed regions might equal that of Taiwan at a time, which makes a full intergration completely feasible economically, which is still lacking at the moment.
Taiwan is nobody if stands alone , but it could be a part of the incoming global superpower. That's something to be proud of. Me thinks most young Tawanese realise this.
I know many young Taiwanese myself in Europe throughout the years. I can comfortablely say that most have no real issue with mainland China, particularly Han Chinese. Almost all overseas Chinese organisations here in Europe as far as I know include Taiwanese memebers and indeed there're many, some of them of new immigrants. One can meet plenty of Taiwanese in yearly Chinese festival celebrations/gatherings, being in France, the UK or even Amsterdam or Barcelona. Here among Chinese communities in the UK, for example, some of most active voices of promoting united Chinese culture are Taiwanese. One of the recent popular weekly TV cooking show host ( from Channel 5 "Chinese Food in Minutes" I think, you can see the shows in youtube also) is a young Taiwanese lady called Chin. The price draw of her show is reward of a trip to mainland China, not Taiwan, see the delicate difference?
In my expericens, the main grudge that most Taiwanese have is CPC for its corruption. However, CPC either would likely to be gone or significantly improved within 50 years time, or in considerablely shorter timespan.
Lastly but not the least, it all boils down to the economy development statue of the mainland. I recently read somewhere that more than a dozen huge population urban centers in the mainland China have surpassed $10,000 per cap GDP and growth are still strong, in a decade or so, when most part of urban mainland Chinese reached $10,000 per cap, then some of the most developed regions might equal that of Taiwan at a time, which makes a full intergration completely feasible economically, which is still lacking at the moment.
Taiwan is nobody if stands alone , but it could be a part of the incoming global superpower. That's something to be proud of. Me thinks most young Tawanese realise this.
I have to concur on this paragraph. I met a number of Chinese Malaysians. They speak perfect Chinese. Its simply amazing! I also read their forums. More amazing is their never abating interest in tracing their history, and learning the Chinese history.
I also met some Chinese Indonesians. Some of them have different mentality about being Chinese, because they or their (grand) parents suffered for generations of oppression by their government. Some of them do not have Chinese last name, as that was illegal. One person spoke outright to me that being Chinese is a very bad thing. So his wife was deliberately chosen as non-Chinese to make their children (semi) non-Chinese. I was shocked!
below_freezing
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everyone hates corruption but it is not an excuse to separate the country, when taiwan's government itself is extremely corrupt. can Hu Jintao steal millions from state coffers and line his own pockets? and then claim that he is immune to prosecution because he's a US citizen? alot of people say this, it is completely wrong. it is also not income, since there are plenty of people that make more in mainland. too many ppl brainwashed with CCTV think that it is our problem, that is false, any issue with reunification is taiwan's problem. hong kong reunified with no difficulty and the average hong kong citizen makes far more money than taiwan, the level of corruption is far lower, etc etc, just better than taiwan in every way. if they don't have a problem, then what is the holdup?
the real issue is taiwan's corrupt politicians who will LOSE POWER if they are reunified. the burden of change is not on the mainland, it is on taiwan, and regime change there WILL occur, it depends though on whether it is voluntary or involuntary. again don't be brainwashed by CCTV, there is no negotiation without something to negotiate with, you can't bribe all of taiwan's corrupt politicians, they already can steal as much as they want. the real way is for them to have enough fear to motivate them to change.
Martian2
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As far as I am aware, the United States is the only obstacle to Chinese reunification. If the U.S. withdraws its support for status quo across the Taiwan Straits tomorrow then Taiwan will quickly sign a Hong Kong-style "one country, two systems" 50-year autonomy agreement with China.
The U.S. is the world's current superpower, both militarily and economically. If Taiwan was physically connected to the Mainland then even the U.S. cannot stop a Chinese military solution to reunification. The problem is the 100-mile Taiwan Strait.
Militarily, the U.S. Navy poses a problem. However, even if China can sink the U.S. Navy (see http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-defence/54955-chinas-blitzkrieg-u-s-carrier.html) within 1,000 miles from her coast, she runs the very real risk that the United States will go nuclear. This is an even bigger headache unless China is willing to build 500 MIRVed ICBMs to deter the United States. This creates its own problem of destabilizing East Asia and the world military balance.
Also, the U.S. is an important customer of Chinese manufactured goods. There will be serious economic repercussions if war breaks out between the U.S. and China. Furthermore, the U.S. Navy will block all imports of oil from the Middle East and raw materials from all over the world (i.e. Australia, Brazil, Africa, etc.). The disruptions to China's economy will be tremendous.
Taiwan is a tiny island. China is a continent. China does not need the land or non-existent resources on Taiwan. The Japanese removed most of the iron ore from Taiwan during World War II. For China, Taiwan is an emotional issue. China wants to reclaim a whole gaggle of ethnic Chinese located off the Chinese coast.
However, China will not risk the economic disruptions from a war with the Americans. Chinese strategy is to bring about reunification through peaceful means. Chinese are known for their patience. In another fifty years, if the peaceful approach fails, the Chinese can always resort to building 500 or 1,000 MIRVed ICBMs. They have possessed the technology for decades.
Taiwanese won't push for reunification because the United States is opposed. Taiwan owes its very existence to the protection of the United States during the Cold War and every Taiwanese knows it. Also, without the United States, the Taiwanese economic miracle would not have been possible. Taiwan's electronics industry can be traced back to 1964 when the American company General Instruments (see newslink below) licensed technology to Taiwan.
If you subtract the radical independence-minded DPP supporters, you are left with a majority of Kuomintang (i.e. KMT) and moderate pro-reunification Taiwanese. However, no one is willing to publicly push for reunification because it will offend the United States. On Taiwan, everyone with political power (e.g. approximately 60 years old) remembers and is grateful for U.S. financial and economic support during the lean Cold War years (see newslink below).
We have to wait for the old generation that is grateful and emotionally beholden to the United States to die from old age and relinquish power. Today's young people have no memories of U.S. as Taiwan's savior. They are the only ones who can bring about peaceful China-Taiwan reunification. Alternatively, the U.S. can just let Taiwan go. However, I doubt that U.S. politics will ever permit Chinese reunification. For strategic reasons, the U.S. wants an indefinite status quo (e.g. no independence or reunification) across the Taiwan Straits.
Taiwan Miracle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"An exports processing area was created in Kaohsiung and in 1964, General Instruments pioneered in externalizing electronic assembly in Taiwan.
...
In 1962, Taiwan had a per capita gross national product (GNP) of $170, placing the island's economy squarely between Zaire and Congo. But, by 2005 Taiwan's per capita GNP, adjusted for purchasing power parity (PPP), had soared to $27,600, contributing to a Human Development Index similar to that of European countries such as Greece."
The U.S. is the world's current superpower, both militarily and economically. If Taiwan was physically connected to the Mainland then even the U.S. cannot stop a Chinese military solution to reunification. The problem is the 100-mile Taiwan Strait.
Militarily, the U.S. Navy poses a problem. However, even if China can sink the U.S. Navy (see http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-defence/54955-chinas-blitzkrieg-u-s-carrier.html) within 1,000 miles from her coast, she runs the very real risk that the United States will go nuclear. This is an even bigger headache unless China is willing to build 500 MIRVed ICBMs to deter the United States. This creates its own problem of destabilizing East Asia and the world military balance.
Also, the U.S. is an important customer of Chinese manufactured goods. There will be serious economic repercussions if war breaks out between the U.S. and China. Furthermore, the U.S. Navy will block all imports of oil from the Middle East and raw materials from all over the world (i.e. Australia, Brazil, Africa, etc.). The disruptions to China's economy will be tremendous.
Taiwan is a tiny island. China is a continent. China does not need the land or non-existent resources on Taiwan. The Japanese removed most of the iron ore from Taiwan during World War II. For China, Taiwan is an emotional issue. China wants to reclaim a whole gaggle of ethnic Chinese located off the Chinese coast.
However, China will not risk the economic disruptions from a war with the Americans. Chinese strategy is to bring about reunification through peaceful means. Chinese are known for their patience. In another fifty years, if the peaceful approach fails, the Chinese can always resort to building 500 or 1,000 MIRVed ICBMs. They have possessed the technology for decades.
Taiwanese won't push for reunification because the United States is opposed. Taiwan owes its very existence to the protection of the United States during the Cold War and every Taiwanese knows it. Also, without the United States, the Taiwanese economic miracle would not have been possible. Taiwan's electronics industry can be traced back to 1964 when the American company General Instruments (see newslink below) licensed technology to Taiwan.
If you subtract the radical independence-minded DPP supporters, you are left with a majority of Kuomintang (i.e. KMT) and moderate pro-reunification Taiwanese. However, no one is willing to publicly push for reunification because it will offend the United States. On Taiwan, everyone with political power (e.g. approximately 60 years old) remembers and is grateful for U.S. financial and economic support during the lean Cold War years (see newslink below).
We have to wait for the old generation that is grateful and emotionally beholden to the United States to die from old age and relinquish power. Today's young people have no memories of U.S. as Taiwan's savior. They are the only ones who can bring about peaceful China-Taiwan reunification. Alternatively, the U.S. can just let Taiwan go. However, I doubt that U.S. politics will ever permit Chinese reunification. For strategic reasons, the U.S. wants an indefinite status quo (e.g. no independence or reunification) across the Taiwan Straits.
Taiwan Miracle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"An exports processing area was created in Kaohsiung and in 1964, General Instruments pioneered in externalizing electronic assembly in Taiwan.
...
In 1962, Taiwan had a per capita gross national product (GNP) of $170, placing the island's economy squarely between Zaire and Congo. But, by 2005 Taiwan's per capita GNP, adjusted for purchasing power parity (PPP), had soared to $27,600, contributing to a Human Development Index similar to that of European countries such as Greece."
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below_freezing
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i agree that the US is an obstacle but the ignorance of taiwan's politicians is also a major one. their brainwashing campaign has been very successful and it does not help that CCTV is trying to downplay a military threat. this gives their corrupt politicians the false impression we may not possess the capability, rather than we are merciful. let there be no doubt, however, of both the capability and willpower of the mainland to reclaim taiwan.
U-571
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the main question is how long will this present chinese govt survive, i have conacts with many chinese students and they all dislike the present govt..
if the chinese establish a new capitalistic, liberal western orientated govt, that the matter of taiwanese becoming part of china is trivial one
if the chinese establish a new capitalistic, liberal western orientated govt, that the matter of taiwanese becoming part of china is trivial one
Martian2
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This isn't exactly breaking news. However, most people do not realize the unanimous Han support for the current CCP government of Hu Jintao and Grandpa Wen.
93% Chinese Support Hu Jintao: Global Leadership Poll
"93% Chinese Support Hu Jintao: Global Leadership Poll
June 23, 2008
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Global Leadership Poll
Chinese President Hu Jintao got a 93 percent confidence ranking in the middle kingdom -- which proved that "when you're on the rise, there's an upbeat feeling that leads to a sunnier disposition" -- The Chinese feel that life is working for them!"
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Martian2
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Did I say 93% approval rating for the Hu-Wen administration? I meant to say: "About 97 percent of Chinese think the direction China has taken is correct...."
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2010-03...ent_9599782.htm
"Survey: China moving ahead
By Yu Tianyu (China Daily)
Updated: 2010-03-17 06:50
BEIJING: Most Chinese as well as expatriates believe the country is rising and is progressing in the right direction, a survey has found.
The poll on China's image and status, conducted by the China Development Research Foundation (CDRF) and Horizon Research Consultancy Group interviewed 1,754 Chinese aged 18-65 and 313 adult foreigners in seven cities including Beijing, Shanghai and Guangzhou.
According to the survey, nearly two in three Chinese believe the country is on an upward spiral, while a little more than half of expats think so. About 97 percent of Chinese think the direction China has taken is correct, compared to 81.8 percent for expats.
In addition, nearly all Chinese are confident about the country's future, compared to nine in 10 for expats.
Victor Yuan, chairman of Horizon Group, said the results suggest the nation's achievements in the past decades and its rise - both economically and politically - have helped improve its image among expats and the Chinese.
Yu Lin, a 38-year-old Beijing taxi driver, said: "Many big events, such as the Beijing Olympic Games, have bolstered pride and confidence in our country."
Luee Sun, a purchase executive for departments stores, called China's rise "a great story" which has helped shift the center of gravity of many industries to China.
But Lu Mai, secretary general of CDRF, said some Chinese people are too optimistic, as the survey found that 22.1 percent of the Chinese think the country has risen. "Don't forget that more than 100 million people in China are still living below the poverty line," Lu said.
The survey showed that the most urgent task is to ensure social wealth is distributed more fairly, with 42.3 percent of the Chinese and 30.7 percent of expats of that view.
About 825,000 have more than 10 million yuan ($1.47 million) of wealth each; among them, 51,000 are worth more than 100 million yuan each, according to the Hurun report on China's wealthy.
The per capita disposable income of urban residents was 17,175 yuan in 2009, and the net per capita income of rural residents was 5,153 yuan, according to the National Bureau of Statistics.
The survey also found that the most severe social problems faced by China are employment, medical reform and housing prices.
On the international front, most of the respondents - both Chinese and expats - ranked the United States as the No 1 threat to China's development now and in the next decade, followed by Japan, Russia and the European Union.
But the US is also ranked first as the country most important both economically and politically to China now and in the next 10 years."
no_name
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I think currently CCP would prefer KMT to be in power in Taiwan rather than say the DPP. I worry more of another Abian comming up with some sort of colour revolution, some of them are quite short-sighted.
Ma is the best bet currently. He want improved relations, economic development and put more focus on advanced industry such as health care, green tech, nano tech etc. A cooperation from both side would be helpful
Ma is the best bet currently. He want improved relations, economic development and put more focus on advanced industry such as health care, green tech, nano tech etc. A cooperation from both side would be helpful
Martian2
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The team of President Hu Jintao and Premier Wen Jiabao has deftly steered China through the Great Financial Crisis of 2007-2010 with booming 9% annual economic growth for China. This is their most important responsibility and their performance has exceeded the expectations of most Western analysts.
I don't think anybody can solve all of continental China's social injustice problems by 2013. However, Hu and Wen have shown that they'll do everything possible to ensure that most Chinese have jobs and enjoy a rising standard of living. Social problems take decades to solve. I believe that most people would agree that China's social problems have diminished greatly during the last 30 years of reforms and that life continues to improve.
I trust Premier Wen to do the best that he can in the next few years to rectify "social inequality and injustice."
Here are two examples of China's improving society under the Hu and Wen administration.
Wen Jiabao - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"The Hu-Wen administration abolished the thousand year old agricultural tax ... by President Hu Jintao outlining China's direction in the next five years. ..."
http://www.pekingduck.org/2005/03/congratu...ou-get-married/
"March 30, 2005
Congratulations, Chinese college students: We’ll let you get married!
I think it’s only when Americans read stories like this that they get a glimpse of just how different the Chinese psyche is from their own.
China said it would lift from September a 50-year ban on college students marrying or bearing children but warned the relaxed regulations should not change academic priorities.
Students of legal marriage age — 22 for males and 20 for females — will no longer need to seek approval from university officials to tie the knot, the Ministry of Education said on its website.
For decades students contemplating marriage or who become pregnant have faced the dilemma of whether to give up studying or delay their wedding, or stay in school and have an abortion.
The regulation came under particularly strong criticism from graduate students, many of whom, under the threat of expulsion, were forced to hold off on reciting marriage vows or starting families.
The new rule follows a law enacted in 2003 that abolished the need for engaged couples to request from employers or superiors a certificate of approval to wed.
Until recent years, Chinese remained beholden to the state for the most basic needs such as provisions for housing, a child’s education or the right to get hitched.
Just a couple of weeks ago I read that the CCP has also made some changes in divorce procedures: You no longer have to get your employer’s permission before receiving an official divorce.
Now, to the Western mind this is almost incomprehensible. Ask your boss for permission to get a divorce? Be thrown out of college for getting married? It’s hard for us to grasp that this could actually have been acceptable for generations and even into the 21st century, and that the Chinese simply accepted it. A whole different outlook as to how society operates and the role of the individual.
Meanwhile, it’s good to see they are breaking free of at least some of those restrictions that serve no purpose except to limit personal freedom. God knows, it’s about time."
I don't think anybody can solve all of continental China's social injustice problems by 2013. However, Hu and Wen have shown that they'll do everything possible to ensure that most Chinese have jobs and enjoy a rising standard of living. Social problems take decades to solve. I believe that most people would agree that China's social problems have diminished greatly during the last 30 years of reforms and that life continues to improve.
I trust Premier Wen to do the best that he can in the next few years to rectify "social inequality and injustice."
Here are two examples of China's improving society under the Hu and Wen administration.
Wen Jiabao - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"The Hu-Wen administration abolished the thousand year old agricultural tax ... by President Hu Jintao outlining China's direction in the next five years. ..."
http://www.pekingduck.org/2005/03/congratu...ou-get-married/
"March 30, 2005
Congratulations, Chinese college students: We’ll let you get married!
I think it’s only when Americans read stories like this that they get a glimpse of just how different the Chinese psyche is from their own.
China said it would lift from September a 50-year ban on college students marrying or bearing children but warned the relaxed regulations should not change academic priorities.
Students of legal marriage age — 22 for males and 20 for females — will no longer need to seek approval from university officials to tie the knot, the Ministry of Education said on its website.
For decades students contemplating marriage or who become pregnant have faced the dilemma of whether to give up studying or delay their wedding, or stay in school and have an abortion.
The regulation came under particularly strong criticism from graduate students, many of whom, under the threat of expulsion, were forced to hold off on reciting marriage vows or starting families.
The new rule follows a law enacted in 2003 that abolished the need for engaged couples to request from employers or superiors a certificate of approval to wed.
Until recent years, Chinese remained beholden to the state for the most basic needs such as provisions for housing, a child’s education or the right to get hitched.
Just a couple of weeks ago I read that the CCP has also made some changes in divorce procedures: You no longer have to get your employer’s permission before receiving an official divorce.
Now, to the Western mind this is almost incomprehensible. Ask your boss for permission to get a divorce? Be thrown out of college for getting married? It’s hard for us to grasp that this could actually have been acceptable for generations and even into the 21st century, and that the Chinese simply accepted it. A whole different outlook as to how society operates and the role of the individual.
Meanwhile, it’s good to see they are breaking free of at least some of those restrictions that serve no purpose except to limit personal freedom. God knows, it’s about time."
below_freezing
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yes, they have the capability to choose to become american or japanese citizens if they do not like it, and can move to japan or the US.
many of their top politicians and businessmen have already done so.
there are also many who came to the mainland.
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