Do you want Shariah law in Pakistan

[KingMamba]

Thats political. I'm talking about religious. I'm sure some religious scholars have certainly endorsed Iqbal's sharia?

That depends on who you consider a religious scholar. In Pakistan anybody with a beard declares himself a scholar which is part of the problem, which is I why do not advocate sharia law in Pakistan.

 

[Vinod2070]

The same as that between Stalin's Communism & the progressive Democratic Socialism that was always espoused by most Leftists Intellectuals !

Iqbal- Scholarly input and reason
Taliban- Manical totaliarian power hungry phenchods lol

That is a good starting point.

Let me make my question more clear.

What is the difference?

In theoretical and ideological terms
In practical terms

Is there such a thing as "Iqbal Shariah" or "Taliban Shariah" that is different from "Islamic Shariah"?

Isn't it supposed to be a system that is independent of who implements it?

Meaning taking into account the human frailties...

 

[KingMamba]

I dont know what is iqbals sharia! Sharia is Sharia! But I will be generous on my fellow @Pakistani Nationalist and consider Imran khan for a change in our country!

Yes Sharia is sharia but when we say Iqbals sharia or Talibans sharia we are talking about which one is more in line with the Quran. So then my question towards these liberal fascists like bozo is, is what the taliban claim to be fighting for the law that is prescribed for Muslims in the Quran?? If any of these people can honestly say yes to this question than their own line of thinking is just as twisted as the Talibans and quite frankly they are just as big of a problem for Pakistan.

 

[somebozo]

To who has he been over inflated?? Obviously Pakistanis will read and appreciate his work because he was one of the fathers of Pakistan. To outsiders most probably do not even know who he was, so how can he than be an "all thing god father"?

People consider it fashionable to drag that poor soul into every debate today be it politics or religion and this is why i said he has become inflated! Leave that poor soul alone, he was a poet and will remain so. No need to drag him into religion and politics! The politicization of Iqbal has already cost him a great deal of credit loss in India!

 

[KingMamba]

That is a good starting point.

Let me make my question more clear.

What is the difference?

In theoretical and ideological terms
In practical terms

Is there such a thing as "Iqbal Shariah" or "Taliban Shariah" that is different from "Islamic Shariah"?

Isn't it supposed to be a system that is independent of who implements it?

Meaning taking into account the human frailties...

My post 216.

I don't even know why we allow or why these moronic azzholes feel compelled to contribute to threads that don't even concern them

Well they can contribute if they know what they are talking about but if they do not than I do not see what is the purpose for them to come to this thread lol.

 

[somebozo]

Yes Sharia is sharia but when we say Iqbals sharia or Talibans sharia we are talking about which one is more in line with the Quran. So then my question towards these liberal fascists like bozo is, is what the taliban claim to be fighting for the law that is prescribed for Muslims in the Quran?? If any of these people can honestly say yes to this question than their own line of thinking is just as twisted as the Talibans and quite frankly they are just as big of a problem for Pakistan.

Dude not sure if you understand the absurdity of your statement but what you are implying is that "Iqbal Shariah" and "Taliban Shariah" is used to validate the "Quran Shariah". This alone is enough to justify what a joke shariah is and subsequently the countries which are rule by Shariah become a joke as well!

Answering your Taliban question, well once again Shariah is not a clearly defined principles as we need Iqbal and Taliban to interpret them therefore it would be more than justified to say that Taliban are fighting for imposing a mirage which is illogical and impossible because in 14 decades none can successfully establish or define what Shariah is.

So perhaps in better favor of society we should disown this mirage and stick to "we the people" instead of "shariah the divine".

 

[ZYXW]

Yes Sharia is sharia but when we say Iqbals sharia or Talibans sharia we are talking about which one is more in line with the Quran. So then my question towards these liberal fascists like bozo is, is what the taliban claim to be fighting for the law that is prescribed for Muslims in the Quran?? If any of these people can honestly say yes to this question than their own line of thinking is just as twisted as the Talibans and quite frankly they are just as big of a problem for Pakistan.

So are you for shariah law or against it???

Yes Sharia is sharia but when we say Iqbals sharia or Talibans sharia we are talking about which one is more in line with the Quran. So then my question towards these liberal fascists like bozo is, is what the taliban claim to be fighting for the law that is prescribed for Muslims in the Quran?? If any of these people can honestly say yes to this question than their own line of thinking is just as twisted as the Talibans and quite frankly they are just as big of a problem for Pakistan.

So are you for shariah law or against it???

 

[ajpirzada]

like i said before, there are no different Shariahs:

the matter of various sects as a hinderance to Shariah law is a myth. the disagreement which exists between different sects is of secondary nature which does not have to do anything concerning the governance of state in accordance to Shariah. The disagreement between different legal schools is only concerning 30% of the law and most of it is to do with subjects such as the time of prayers, actions during prayer, number of extra prayers etc etc which have to do nothing with Governance. And other disagreement between later sects is to do with belief structure (often called as Aqeedah) such as the nature of prophets' and saint's life after they die etc etc which dont even enter the secondary domain.

the Afghanistan example is simply not applicable. no one group of people from somewhere is just going to rise up and be allowed to implement what they think is shariah. Likewise, we are not a monarchy where what the ruler does is not to be questioned and thus imposed on the public. Under a democratic setup, laws can be fashioned in accordance with Shariah and thus implemented accordingly.
The probability of manipulating any law is the same and that depends on the implementation mechanism rather than the law itself. Thus to give preference to one set of laws over the other just because it can be manipulated is not a very solid argument. There are 100s of books written on how the corporate laws in the US were manipulated by the financial sector to suit their purpose. Therefore, manipulation is not a result of laws but of the process.

Siddiqui quoted Jinnah from a speech on January 25, 1948, at Karachi Bar Association saying: “I could not understand a section of people who deliberately wanted to create mischief and made a propaganda that the constitution of Pakistan would not be made on the basis of Shariat.” He advised the youth to read the contents of the resolution, which, in his view, ensures the country’s survival.
....
To define the basis for Pakistan, she quoted Jinnah from his various speeches and concluded at the one delivered at the Karachi Bar Association. “No doubt there are many people who do not quite appreciate when we talk of Islam. Islam is not only a set of rituals, traditions and spiritual doctrines, Islam is also a code for every Muslim which regulates his life and his conduct even in politics and economics and the like.”

For Dr Sherwani, Jinnah’s speech at the bar aligns well with another one delivered on February 14, 1948 at the Sibi Durbar, where he said: “It is my belief that our salvation lies in following the golden rules of conduct set for us by our great law giver, the Prophet (PBUH) of Islam. Let us lay the foundation of our democracy on the basis of truly Islamic ideals and principles.”

As nation remembers Jinnah, speakers fear his

Following is the detailed text of Jinnah's Bar association speech:

Karachi Bar Association given on March 25th, 1948
"Thirteen hundred years ago he laid the foundation of democracy… The Prophet was a great teacher. He was a great lawgiver. He was a great statesman and a great sovereign who ruled. No doubt, there are many people who do not quite appreciate when we talk of Islam. Islam is not only a set of rituals, traditions and spiritual doctrines. Islam is also a code for every Muslim, which regulates his life and his conduct in even politics and economics and the like. It is based upon highest principles of honour, integrity, fair play and justice for all. One God and the equality of man is one of the fundamental principles of Islam. In Islam there is no difference between man and man. The qualities of equality, liberty and fraternity are the fundamental principles in Islam."

Also in the same speech,

"What reason is there for anyone to fear democracy, equality, freedom on the highest standard of integrity and on the basis of fair play and justice for everybody… Let us make it (the constitution of Pakistan). We shall make it and we will show it to the world."

 

[KingMamba]

Dude not sure if you understand the absurdity of your statement but what you are implying is that "Iqbal Shariah" and "Taliban Shariah" is used to validate the "Quran Shariah". This alone is enough to justify what a joke shariah is and subsequently the countries which are rule by Shariah become a joke as well!

Answering your Taliban question, well once again Shariah is not a clearly defined principles as we need Iqbal and Taliban to interpret them therefore it would be more than justified to say that Taliban are fighting for imposing a mirage which is illogical and impossible because in 14 decades none can successfully establish or define what Shariah is.

So perhaps in better favor of society we should disown this mirage and stick to "we the people" instead of "shariah the divine".

Actually it is the reverse I said which of theirs is in line with the Quran so if their version of Sharia is in contradiction of the Quran it is not right. Well apparently the people want sharia in Pakistan so the question is bozo which sharia is not in contradiction with the Quran?? Or just be straight and say you think the Taliban are right in their views and the Quran clearly says suicide bombing are an effective way to bring about a perfect society lol.

 

[Armstrong]

@Armstrong

In your "version" of it, would I be allowed to commit blasphemy without any resultant legal action, say question the existence of God vocally and in public. If such an act caused a backlash from people would I be afforded protection?

Probably not ! Like every society we'd have our red-lines too; don't abuse the Prophet (PBUH) or God & you should be alright ! Freedom speech isn't free is it...even amongst the so-called Developed Nations ?

If I were a kafir, would I have the same rights- would there be a specific law that states that a kafir is equal to a Muslim in all ways and both are destined for heaven?

Same rights & privileges - Yes !

That particular law...I dunno what that means ?

 

[Koovie]

If those 42 "yes votes" are really from Pakistanis................ its really shocking.

 

[KingMamba]

So are you for shariah law or against it???



So are you for shariah law or against it???

Against but not because I believe there is anything wrong with it. I am against it because I believe Pakistan is an immature, uneducated nation which still needs to mature before it can start talking about implementing anything close to Shariah. This is a country where people cannot talk rationally without trying to kill each other so until everyone is educated shariah is a non starter and if somebody were to try to implement their view of what the shariah should be there would anarchy and lots of bloodshed.

 

[Armstrong]

That is a good starting point.

Let me make my question more clear.

What is the difference?

In theoretical and ideological terms
In practical terms

Is there such a thing as "Iqbal Shariah" or "Taliban Shariah" that is different from "Islamic Shariah"?

Isn't it supposed to be a system that is independent of who implements it?

Meaning taking into account the human frailties...

I thought my last answer would be able to elucidate it fully !

I'll use the same analogy again - Both Stalin's Communism & Democratic Socialism take root from Marx's works but both, practically, produced diagrammatically different results ! And why ? Because they were belief systems & like every other belief system 'Communism, Capitalism, Liberalism, Nationalism, Political Islam etc.' - They have a grave propensity for abuse !

 

[Dillinger]

Probably not ! Like every society we'd have our red-lines too; don't abuse the Prophet (PBUH) or God & you should be alright ! Freedom speech isn't free is it...even amongst the so-called Developed Nations ?



Same rights & privileges - Yes !

That particular law...I dunno what that means ?

So what would be the punishment for blasphemy?

So freedom but with certain conditions, an atheist, by default if he is vocal about not believing in any god, would end up insulting the Prophet, no?

And what would be the punishment for insulting the gods of another religion? Would that be considered an equally foul act and a blasphemy? Would they be as important as Allah?

Same rights and privileges, AND How would you stop the future leaders from using the implementation of religion based laws as an excuse to enact laws that while still based on religion might be rather draconian, will you have a statute that can foresee such an issue and prevent it?

What about adultery, do I get stoned? Just covering my bases man, you know me- irreverent, loud mouthed, and promiscuous- AND a blasphemer.
@Hyperion

 

[ZYXW]

Against but not because I believe there is anything wrong with it. I am against it because I believe Pakistan is an immature, uneducated nation which still needs to mature before it can start talking about implementing anything close to Shariah. This is a country where people cannot talk rationally without trying to kill each other so until everyone is educated shariah is a non starter and if somebody were to try to implement their view of what the shariah should be there would anarchy and lots of bloodshed.

Look at that Mamba...finally something we can agree on 100%!!