Do you think a free press is important for citizens to have checks & balances on the Goverment?

[yolo2016]

China, Egypt top list of world′s worst jailers of journalists | News | DW.COM | 15.12.2015

China has topped the list as the world's worst jailer of journalists. In numerous other countries - Egypt, Turkey, Iran, Vietnam, Ethiopia, and Eritrea - a climate of fear and censorship persist.

All developed and rich nations to date have free press.

Do you think, despite some portions of the press being irresponsible- that overall a free press serves the people better vs. state run media?

 

[Sipahi]

I am Confused.

Some Journalists are blackmailers in Pakistan and some are doing great job. cant say anything....

 

[yolo2016]

I am Confused.

Some Journalists are blackmailers in Pakistan and some are doing great job. cant say anything....

Why are you confused my man. The question is simple; would you rather have a free press, even with some being irresponsible, than a government/politician run press?

In terms of Pakistan, would you rather have a dictatorship that kills, subjugates, or imprisons a journalist carte blanche- over a free press that challenges and acts like a check and balance over government propaganda?

I personally would rather have a free press as a check an balance against government propaganda.

 

[Sipahi]

Why are you confused my man. The question is simple; would you rather have a free press, even with some being irresponsible, than a government/politician run press?

In terms of Pakistan, would you rather have a dictatorship that kills, subjugates, or imprisons a journalist carte blanche- over a free press that challenges and acts like a check and balance over government propaganda?

I personally would rather have a free press as a check an balance against government propaganda.

In Pakistan press is more then "free", with both pros and cons, Free press is better but Press should play a positive role instead of making fun of the state.

 

[yolo2016]

Do you think the ONLY thing needed is a free press?

Despite the media in China, China is on one of the most extensive anti corruption drives of any country in modern time. Perhaps THE most extensive. If you take a look at the China section, you can see progress being made left right and center, progress that has made China the leader of the developing countries and on the verge of joining the developed world.

I don't want to claim free press would hinder development, or help development, but sometimes, it's helpful to take a step back and instead of focusing on the good or bad. Look at the entire situation overall, and see what the alternatives are. Instead of focusing what could have been and just focus on what is, as nothing is a better indicator than reality.

What do you think of China in terms of the developing world.

To me if the worst mistakes made by China is no democracy and jailing of human rights lawyers and journalists. That is not the worst place to be in.

Excuse me, do you realize you are insulting the intellect of a chinese citizen?

You are saying chinese citizens are weakened by a free press, or saying chinese are too stupid to handle dissenting opinion? I'm not sure if you realize that you are demeaning and lowering a chinese citizens intellect to handle and differentiate opinions vs. a press that works as a check and balance.

A free press only helps development when you see it in a macro sense vs. micro.
Look- 99.99% of developed countries(you are yet to be one) have free open democracies and press. Certainly you understand the gravity of this? your growth notwithstanding, it's actually a classic example of how " just revenue" growth is not enough to make you a "developed" nation. An allowance of free vibrant expression of its people is a key component...

In Pakistan press is more then "free", with both pros and cons, Free press is better but Press should play a positive role instead of making fun of the state.

Perfect, then you agree with option 1 in the poll :-}

 

[Sipahi]

Excuse me, do you realize you are insulting the intellect of a chinese citizen?

You are saying chinese citizens are weakened by a free press, or saying chinese are too stupid to handle dissenting opinion? I'm not sure if you realize that you are demeaning and lowering a chinese citizens intellect to handle and differentiate opinions vs. a press that works as a check and balance.

A free press only helps development when you see it in a macro sense vs. micro.
Look- 99.99% of developed countries(you are yet to be one) have free open democracies and press. Certainly you understand the gravity of this? your growth notwithstanding, it's actually a classic example of how " just revenue" growth is not enough to make you a "developed" nation. An allowance of free vibrant expression of its people is a key component...



Perfect, then you agree with option 1 in the poll :-}

Not completely, partially yes

 

[yolo2016]

I take no opinion on the matter. As is the point of my entire post. If you want to argue one way or the other, that is your right.

In fact, I don't think free press or otherwise has that much of an effect at all. So, even if I do think Chinese can't handle it, which I don't, I don't think it would have made much of a difference anyways.

I cannot predict the future, I can only see what has already happened.

Your characterization of 99.99% of developed countries have democracy and free press only matters if only developed countries have democracies and open press. The stat would look a lot less impressive if you had said what percentage of democracies are developed, rather than the other way around.

Would China move towards free press? Probably, free currency is definitely on the cards now that our economic clout is as much as it is. A lot of democratic and capitalistic countries actually have less currency freedom than ours now. Policies shift with the times, nothing in China is as in stoned as is your second amendment.

Now instead of arguing our point of views, why not step back and just look at facts, indisputable facts. What is China compared to other developing countries.

If you want to compare China on this one aspect, than yea, we are not doing well. If you want to compare China's government accountability? Would it be the same story?

I'm always against democracy for the sake of democracy, rather all systems needs to serve a purpose. Why not look at the situation objectively before we start to tear down what's working already. I mean if you agree it's working.

You have introduced several topics, or points of contention. Frankly, I'd like to take things simple, one at a time. and stick on topic. I will quote your one sentence "In fact, I don't think free press or otherwise has that much of an effect at all."

You think the chinese government that lies about simple things such as how many died in that big earthquake you've had a few years ago, or about SARS, or on how many died in the explosion recently- is good for a citizen(s) like you?

You think your government and its politicians should be the sole source of explaining what all things are taking place? You think imprisoning someone because they dissent on mere opinion is acceptable?

If you do and you are indicative of chinese sentiment - then why are your high earners trying every which way to take their earnings off to the west?

Not completely, partially yes

Either you accept a free press, even with its flaw- as being good for citizens of any country, or you accept being ruled by a dictator and told what they think,as better off. There is no middle ground

 

[Sipahi]

You have introduced several topics, or points of contention. Frankly, I'd like to take things simple, one at a time. and stick on topic. I will quote your one sentence "In fact, I don't think free press or otherwise has that much of an effect at all."

Really? you think chinese government as a reflex that lies about simple things on how many died in that big earthquake you had a few years ago, or about SARS, or how many died in the explosion recently- is good for a citizen(s) like you?

You think your government and its politicians should be the sole source of all things taking place?
You think imprisoning someone because they dissent on mere opinion is acceptable?

If you do and you are indicative of chinese sentiment - then why are your high earners trying every which way to take their earnings to run off to the west?


Either you accept free press is good, or you accept being ruled by a dictator and told what they think. There is no middle ground

I am emphasizing on free "responsible" press, which is quite rare now a days

 

[JSCh]

Survey shows 95% support French reporter’s expulsion - People's Daily Online

Well, certainly a lot of Chinese don't think "freedom of the press" is that important when put against other consideration.

 

[yolo2016]

Survey shows 95% support French reporter’s expulsion - People's Daily Online

Well, certainly a lot of Chinese don't think "freedom of the press" is that important when put against other consideration.

What is the purpose of that link? is it to prove something overall about freedom of press, or more so about that one incident.

Frankly- what good is a poll from china when the government rigs it? You are again proving my point by citing a government / politician fed poll.

 

[Genesis]

You have introduced several topics, or points of contention. Frankly, I'd like to take things simple, one at a time. and stick on topic. I will quote your one sentence "In fact, I don't think free press or otherwise has that much of an effect at all."

You think the chinese government that lies about simple things such as how many died in that big earthquake you've had a few years ago, or about SARS, or on how many died in the explosion recently- is good for a citizen(s) like you?

You think your government and its politicians should be the sole source of all explaining things taking place? You think imprisoning someone because they dissent on mere opinion is acceptable?

If you do and you are indicative of chinese sentiment - then why are your high earners trying every which way to take their earnings to run off to the west?

I deleted my posts, because you are putting words in my mouth. I never said good, and it wasn't my point. In fact the sentence you quoted speaks to the effectiveness of speech, not good or bad. If you want to argue, don't argue good or bad, I'm not God and neither are you, let's argue effectiveness. Which ironically is also your point.

If you believe free press is really effective, know that in Calgary Canada, a flood happened two years ago. To date, most home owners affected have not been paid any meaningful compensation and is still in the process of dealing with the government. The government is open about it's investigation, but it is inactive just the same. I know this for a fact, unfortunately.

I don't care if I know about the exact details of something, I care if something is done about it. I know way too much about a lot of the deficiencies in Canadian cities, yet the plan to extend a busy road is pushed to 2114. Even my children who are yet to be born may not make it.

The thing is Canada can handle it, it's already developed, don't have that huge of a population, so it's almost irrelevant whether it's effective or not. Not true for all cases, but it's true enough for enough cases.

Take a look at another case, this time India. Dehli lacks the infrastructure to even enforce a odd/even car system. I know what the problem of Dehli is, but nobody is doing a damn thing to fix it. Unlike the developed cities of Canada and US. Dehli cannot handle it. In fact, the Chinese cities have way more reporting on air pollution than India.

Chinese reporting since SARS and the US embassy reporting on pollution has changed considerably. Everyone can see it. Do you really believe an American system can prevent a SARS? Or pollution? I have my doubts. Especially pollution, look at how polluted our free democratic neighbors to the South are.

Now read carefully, I am not saying free press stops progress. What I am saying is that, it's not nearly as effective as you like to make people believe. I support free press, but I don't think it's as essential. I believe it will come when it comes, when the people or the publishing companies are powerful enough, or both. See China has a lot of non state sponsored news sources too.


Your last point doesn't even make sense. America is better than China, free press play a very small part in people choosing to go to America. Why is it so hard for Americans to grasp that on the one hand you know exactly how much more developed than us, and yet, unable to see it as a reason for people wanting to choose America as a place of residence.

 

[JSCh]

What is the purpose of that link? is that to prove something overall about freedom of press, or more so about that one incident.

Frankly- what good is a poll from china when the government rigs it? You are again proving my point by citing a government / politician fed poll.

It is one incident related to freedom of press.

But a single incident is enough to prove that there cannot be total free pass for the press, it need to be regulated.

I cannot prove to you that the government did or did not rig that poll or not. But judging by the torrent of negative comments said journalist received in her FB and else where, I think it is fairly evidential that a vast number of Chinese citizen did not like what she had published, and would very much like her to be disallowed into China.

Your attitude of "because it is government media then it is automatically wrong" is obviously mistaken. Attacking the messenger (the gov't) do not prove that the message is wrong.

 

[Genesis]

It is one incident related to freedom of press.

But a single incident is enough to prove that there cannot be total free pass for the press, it need to be regulated.

I cannot prove to you that the government did or did not rig that poll or not. But judging by the torrent of negative comments said journalist received in her FB and else where, I think it is fairly evidential that a vast number of Chinese citizen did not like what she had published, and would very much like her to be disallowed into China.

Your attitude of "because it is government media then it is automatically wrong" is obviously mistaken. Attacking the messenger (the gov't) do not prove that the message is wrong.

I have noticed in Western countries this need for democracy and free press is essentially brainwashing. It's not bad, like antisemitism, but it blinds people to the realities.

Like Song ZiWen of nationalist China, his economic ideas taken from the States were about as effective as punching yourself to stop a nose bleed, and yet he cannot see it. He continued until he depleted Chang's coffer and made an inflation as bad as post war Germany.

Lesson? China is not the US. Clear to everyone, but put it into practice, nobody sees it.

Judging case by case is very important, but that objectivity is lost almost entirely in the West. Success has its own drawbacks, much like Hitler and Napoleon.

 

[JSCh]

I have noticed in Western countries this need for democracy and free press is essentially brainwashing. It's not bad, like antisemitism, but it blinds people to the realities.

Like Song ZiWen of nationalist China, his economic ideas taken from the States were about as effective as punching yourself to stop a nose bleed, and yet he cannot see it. He continued until he depleted Chang's coffer and made an inflation as bad as post war Germany.

Lesson? China is not the US. Clear to everyone, but put it into practice, nobody sees it.

Judging case by case is very important, but that objectivity is lost almost entirely in the West. Success has its own drawbacks, much like Hitler and Napoleon.

I think it is because western civilization is heavily influenced by organized religion, therefore such dogmatism is embedded in their thinking.

 

[aliaselin]

How do you know it is free? was that person paid by anybody?