Do you support Imran Khan? (poll)

[TankMan]

Imran Khan terrorist sympathetic policies

False. A different approach to solving terrorism is in no way 'terrorist sympathetic'.

Due to IK a loner, forwarding TTP agenda in Pakistan

False again. He never forwarded any TTP agenda. Never.

Spoiler: proof

Is Imran Khan really pro-Taliban? – The Express Tribune
Imran Khan on Pakistan's fight against terrorism - video - Channel 4 News

he begging for letting terrorists who are defeated in FATA come back again into power, by just removing Army from tribal areas

False, again. The Army was not removed from FATA because of Imran Khan.

IK's focus is only on Punjab and Karachi Sindh

False again, he won in KPK. KPK is not Punjab or Sindh.

asking for civil war

Never happened. Electoral investigation is not civil war.

Spoiler: Proof

PTI wants recount with fingerprint verification in 4 constituencies – The Express Tribune
Published: May 15, 2013 -4 days after the election, 14 months before the protest

Election rigging: Imran Khan presents 2000-page white paper – The Express Tribune
Published: August 21, 2013 - 3 months after the elections, 1 year before the protests.

Imran warns Nawaz of 'tsunami march' if demands not met - Pakistan - DAWN.COM
Updated Jun 28, 2014 - 2 months before the protests

PTI Charter of Demands on Electoral Reforms (May 11, 2014)
Tuesday, 13 May 2014 - 3 Months before the protests started

Imran Khan calls for complete audit of 2013 elections à la Afghan polls – The Express Tribune
Published: July 15, 2014. A month before the protest march.

nothing of that sort in KPK

PTI openly challenged opponents to have a re-election in KPK, multiple times.

Spoiler: Proof

he is looting innocent elite Punjabis

Innocent elite? . The elite is almost never innocent.
As for looting, they support him out of their own free will.

 

[Meengla]

Hey @Hyperion coward, worshipper of Imran Khan....I would say again and again same thing, Imran Khan terrorist sympathetic policies is very much thinking like a terrorist himself, .

I wouldn't go as far to call him a 'terrorist'. That would be unfair.
But didn't he oppose the 2009 operation in Swat? At a time when the whole Pakistani nation was galvanized to crush the Talibans in Swat (the video of the girl's flogging). Isn't Swat far, far better off now then in 2009?

 

[muslim_pakistani]

I meant NK can be an 'exception' but USSR gained a lot certainly by having political stability for decades. And I also maintain that the 'STANs are better off having been part of the USSR. This is not the right thread to discuss that.

And I think this 'only four constituencies' is a drama: Yes, the govt delayed but in face of the Dharnas they agreed. But then IK wanted NS to resign--a 'no-go' option for the govt. Then aligning himself with Qadri--who you yourself call a 'drama'--IK showed his real intentions loud and clear. Yeah, some 'cousins' they are! IK would and still does try to nullify the whole elections based on a few seats--it is a slippery slope.

I maintain that the elections results broadly reflect pre-poll surveys. Yes, like in most 3rd world countries there are irregularities, but IK wouldn't be the PM today even if the elections were squeaky clean.

Basic problem with pre-poll surveys that they decide based on population opinion that are above 18 and resident from all type of areas.
Actual criteria is a residence commercial value multiply by educated members (all under eighteen included because pre prep student of posh area is more manners then other areas)in family so prepoll surveys have done a lot of rigging. Also see poll results here so it is evident that election is rigged by PTI criteria.

 

[TankMan]

I meant NK can be an 'exception' but USSR gained a lot certainly by having political stability for decades. And I also maintain that the 'STANs are better off having been part of the USSR.

We were talking about corruption, not gains. There was a lot of corruption in the USSR, that's what I was trying to say, I'm not denying their achievements.

This is not the right thread to discuss that.

Agreed.

And I think this 'only four constituencies' is a drama: Yes, the govt delayed but in face of the Dharnas they agreed.

They didn't exactly agree to anything, they were very unclear and very 'gol mol kar ke' during the negotiations. That was more of a drama than the four constituencies.
If you go through the links I gave, PTI's main demand for almost an year was four constituencies and nothing more.

Then aligning himself with Qadri--who you yourself call a 'drama'--IK showed his real intentions loud and clear.

I opposed his aligning with Qadri but the fact is that it was Qadri who tried to jump on the bandwagon - IK didn't call upon him or align himself with him and Qadri made no difference to PTI's cause. I wouldn't say that showed anything except Qadri's dramatics.

IK would and still does try to nullify the whole elections based on a few seats--it is a slippery slope.

This point goes against PMLN too - why didn't they just investigate the four constituencies long before IK even mentioned protesting?
The thing is that he never wanted to just nullify the elections and take power - if that was the case, he'd never have accepted the election results in the first place. What he was pushing for was electoral reform. The reason he upped the ante and demanded the PM's resignation was because he believed they'd never let this reform take place. So far, he seems to be right: Parliamentary panel ambivalent over use of EVMs for polling – The Express Tribune

As you said, it's a slippery slope.

 

[Meengla]

I wouldn't go as far to call him a 'terrorist'. That would be unfair.
But didn't he oppose the 2009 operation in Swat? At a time when the whole Pakistani nation was galvanized to crush the Talibans in Swat (the video of the girl's flogging). Isn't Swat far, far better off now then in 2009?

I know PTI is going to come up with some back-paddling quotes to prove me wrong so here it is--straight from the horse's mouth from 7 May 2009. And oh, some nice words about Altaf Bhai as well

Military operation no solution for Swat: Imran Khan - - DAWN.COM

-------------------------------------------------
Speaking at a news conference in Swabi, Khan said a military operation is not the solution to the problem in Swat.

He said the NWFP government should negotiate with the Swat Taliban to restore peace in the region.

He blamed the government for succumbing to US pressure and conductiong an operation in Buner and its surrounding areas.

Imran suggested that an All Parties Conference should be convened and political forces should be taken into confidence for resolving the matters peacefully.

He also shunned any possibilities of Taliban taking over the country.

About his visit to Karachi, Imran made clear that no one can stop him from entering the metropolis.

He also maintained that the Muttahida Qaumi Movement (MQM) chief wants conflict between groups in Karachi.

 

[TankMan]

I know PTI is going to come up with some back-paddling quotes to prove me wrong so here it is--straight from the horse's mouth from 7 May 2009. And oh, some nice words about Altaf Bhai as well

Military operation no solution for Swat: Imran Khan - - DAWN.COM

-------------------------------------------------
Speaking at a news conference in Swabi, Khan said a military operation is not the solution to the problem in Swat.

He said the NWFP government should negotiate with the Swat Taliban to restore peace in the region.

He blamed the government for succumbing to US pressure and conductiong an operation in Buner and its surrounding areas.

Imran suggested that an All Parties Conference should be convened and political forces should be taken into confidence for resolving the matters peacefully.

He also shunned any possibilities of Taliban taking over the country.

About his visit to Karachi, Imran made clear that no one can stop him from entering the metropolis.

He also maintained that the Muttahida Qaumi Movement (MQM) chief wants conflict between groups in Karachi.

He was wrong about negotiations being effective but he wasn't wrong about creating more terrorists in the process. The thing about Swat is that it was given more attention (by the government) than FATA, which is why it's better off. Otherwise, military operations alone are counter productive. And well, the military operation didn't save Malala.
As for MQM, what's there to say, everything is obvious.

 

[Meengla]

This point goes against PMLN too - why didn't they just investigate the four constituencies long before IK even mentioned protesting?
The thing is that he never wanted to just nullify the elections and take power - if that was the case, he'd never have accepted the election results in the first place. What he was pushing for was electoral reform. The reason he upped the ante and demanded the PM's resignation was because he believed they'd never let this reform take place. I dou

As you said, it's a slippery slope.

I doubt that was the main reason.
There are facts that they met in London. Perhaps even Pasha was involved? Qadri was to bring the muscle-power and Imran Khan the charisma. Qadri's agenda was so radical that IK shouldn't have even be seen with that clown. IK had a lot of stake in the system. Qadri didn't. Blunder #1.
IK wanted power asap. Plain and simple. You would give him 4 seats and he would want 200 seats--or else nullify the whole elections. Of course asking for the PM to resign was a no-go option--IK wanted the entire current assemblies to fall because, short of that, he had no chance of forming his own govt. Where IK went wrong is that ALL political parties stood their ground and the umpire--though initially sympathetic--could not raise his finger.

 

[muslim_pakistani]

I doubt that was the main reason.
There are facts that they met in London. Perhaps even Pasha was involved? Qadri was to bring the muscle-power and Imran Khan the charisma. Qadri's agenda was so radical that IK shouldn't have even be seen with that clown. IK had a lot of stake in the system. Qadri didn't. Blunder #1.
IK wanted power asap. Plain and simple. You would give him 4 seats and he would want 200 seats--or else nullify the whole elections. Of course asking for the PM to resign was a no-go option--IK wanted the entire current assemblies to fall because, short of that, he had no chance of forming his own govt. Where IK went wrong is that ALL political parties stood their ground and the umpire--though initially sympathetic--could not raise his finger.

How dare you blame an ideal personality. Now face the music.

 

[haviZsultan]

My only confirmed issue with IK is his rigid stance on Khatm-e-Nabuwat aka. Qadianis. Either he is a fool or cannot grasp the fact that Qadiani leaders were main proponents behind Pakistan movement that created Pakistan in the first place. This fact was acknowledged by Jinnah when he gave the most important ministry of an emerging nation: Foreign Ministry of Pakistan to a Qadiani, namely Chaudhry Zafrullah Khan. Ironically, it was he who wrote a memorandum (Pakistan Declaration) in 1940 that eventually led to establishment of Pakistan:


— Lord Linlithgow, April 12, 1940

So that's it. Qadianis help built Pakistan, and are today treated as treacherous outcasts. They even had their own military battalion in Pakistan Army called 'Furqan Force' which fought for the independence of Kashmir between 1947 - 1950:

Furqan Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

With such huge contributions, this ignorant Khan is backing terrorist Jamaat-e-Islami's version of Maududiat which is full of anti-Qadiani bigotry.


Change of heart?



No, check out socialism with chinese characteristics. Its a form of State Capitalism:
Socialist market economy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Only problem with this model is that it's devoid of any religious values. An alternative model of capitalism with Islamic values can be adapted as happened in Germany after WW2:
Social market economy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This should be best fitting for IK's end goal for Pakistan: Establishment of a Muslim Welfare State!

If IK wants to copy best governed economic states of the world, he should follow Nordic Model, which is similar to above social market economy:
Nordic model - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ahmedis have made massive sacrifices for Pakistan. It is good that there is at least someone other than me who knows about Zafarullah Khan. Do note Quaid E Azam did not declare him non muslim despite the protests of the Mullahs of Jamaat E Islami and group. They were very frustrated by this and supported a united India.

Ahmedis have made major sacrifices for Pakistan and it is more than time to accept this. However Imran Khan is not to blame. He doesn't believe in the khatm e nubuwat campaign rubbish and has a minority member, Soran Singh who is very active and one of the best minority ministers out there. He presented his Sikh sword to Imran Khan. Also Imran has been to a foreign country and seen it so he brings new ideas. It isn't Imran Khans stated policy that oppression of Ahmedis should take place.

 

[Meengla]

He was wrong about negotiations being effective but he wasn't wrong about creating more terrorists in the process. .

No. He was wrong about Swat 2009 operation. No new terrorists were created by that operation. Swat is a much better place despite what happened to Malala. The 'negotiations' were only going to lead to ceding Swat to Mullah Radio's tyranny permanently and unchallenged--there were negotiations about Swat before the 2009 operation. The fact is that IK stood out as a dumb, appeasing, ethnic-oriented 'leader' in 2009 against the opinion of a vast majority of Pakistanis that time.

It is understandable for a leader to be wrong sometime. Let's not make excuses for him.

How dare you blame an ideal personality. Now face the music.

Well, there is not much left to say. We have all spent a lot of time starting August 2014 to talk about Dharnas and politics related to that. I have 'faced the music' before--it won't ruffle my feathers--and I suspect nor will it convince IK supporter of the contrary viewpoint.

 

[TankMan]

There are facts that they met in London.

It wasn't a secret - they had many non-conspiratorial reasons to meet.

Qadri's agenda was so radical that IK shouldn't have even be seen with that clown. IK had a lot of stake in the system. Qadri didn't. Blunder #1.

Agreed, it was a blunder.

IK wanted power asap. Plain and simple.

Then why did he waste over an year talking in the courts and assemblies? If he wanted power asap, he wouldn't have accepted the election results in the first place. He had the momentum, he had the support, he could have announced his dharna to declare the elections null and void as soon as the results were announced. This accusation has many, many flaws and logical fallacies involved. So unless you have proper proof, don't bring it up.

You would give him 4 seats and he would want 200 seats

If the four seats were rigged, asking for more would have been justified.

ALL political parties stood their ground

And isn't that suspicious? The same Zardari who PMLN had promised to drag around the streets of Pakistan and hang him to death was supporting PMLN. This could be a very good thing or a very bad one.

It is understandable for a leader to be wrong sometime.

Agreed. That doesn't make him a terrorist.

Look, I have nothing for Imran Khan personally - I support his cause, electoral reforms and the idea that he is challenging the status quo politicians who have given Pakistan nothing but trouble. Pakistan will not progress until and unless PPP and PMLN are eradicated - if Imran Khan can't do it now, it will happen eventually.

He is the best option right now. Zardari, Nawaz, Altaf, all of them are corrupt. It isn't about Imran Khan being perfect - its about him being better.

How dare you blame an ideal personality. Now face the music.

Cut this bull and debate. If you can't debate, don't post on a forum, plain and simple.

 

[muslim_pakistani]

Cut this bull and debate. If you can't debate, don't post on a forum, plain and simple.

I am not debating with you. Not quoting you.So What is your problem?

I am sharing my point of view with that person and He is answering so it is not your business.

 

[TankMan]

Cut this bull and debate. If you can't debate, don't post on a forum, plain and simple.

I am not debating with you so what is your problem?

You can use the multi-quote, no need to copy and paste my post - makes life easier
My problem is that you're constantly posting sarcastic and otherwise dumb things that imply i'm some kind of psycho who will make everyone 'face the music'. That is false and annoying.

 

[muslim_pakistani]

My problem is that you're constantly posting sarcastic and otherwise dumb things that imply i'm some kind of psycho who will make everyone 'face the music'. That is false and annoying.

Check his reply if he is not annoyed then third person who is annoyed may be psycho.
You can push report button if you think any thing seems false.

 

[Meengla]

Look, I have nothing for Imran Khan personally - I support his cause, electoral reforms and the idea that he is challenging the status quo politicians who have given Pakistan nothing but trouble. Pakistan will not progress until and unless PPP and PMLN are eradicated - if Imran Khan can't do it now, it will happen eventually.
He is the best option right now. Zardari, Nawaz, Altaf, all of them are corrupt. It isn't about Imran Khan being perfect - its about him being better..

Honestly I can't answer why he waited for 1 year. But ONLY ONE YEAR?! I'd call it 'asap' after the 2013 elections. Mr. Imran Khan has not a political mind--perhaps, to save face, he had to follow through with his 'one year' promise regardless of the consequences. That reflects a non-compromising and rigid, ultimately a non-political mindset. Had he studied the history of NS rules he would have realized by by 2018--if not by 2016--NS would have probably imploded. But, no, IK doesnt' think through. He has no vision. He was, is, and will remain a political clown. Which is sad for Pakistan.

I don't consider him a 'better' option for Pakistan. Not everything boils down to personal financial integrity. Pakistan is not a bank. And Pakistan is not a uniquely and utterly 'corrupt' country in the world. And Pakistan HAS achieved a lot since 1947 despite your PTI idealist supporters continue to harp against.

I have said it before and will say again: I'd rather have a little 'corrupt' but politically accommodating govt of NS over a non-corrupt but politically uncompromising govt of IK. And that's because IK's rule is going to bring mass agitation against him unless he realizes that Pakistan is not a bank but a complex country where 'give and take' should be done on daily basis on political matters.

Sigh!! I don't know what else is left to say. PDF's 'Siasat' page is full of the same things.