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Do you support Azadi March?

Do you support Azadi March?


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Very very appropriate at this time. Do read. I have posted this on PTI Political Desk thread. But considering the discussion here. It is very relevant here:

Ten truths about electoral rigging
By Zahid F. Ebrahim
Published: August 4, 2014



The writer is an advocate of the Supreme Court and can be reached on Twitter @zfebrahim

The PTI and PML-N are unable to resolve their political differences. Therefore on August 14, Islamabad is bracing for a clash, which will test Pakistan’s democracy. Imran Khan, who will lead the Azadi march from Lahore to Islamabad, calls it a “decisive battle”. The tempo for the long march has been built on a series of rallies in Punjab where the PTI has repeatedly hammered home its case against electoral rigging. These arguments have mostly been taken at face value. Let’s see how they fare in the light of facts put together by FAFEN, an independent election monitoring NGO.

1) Election tribunals have failed to decide cases — Around 410 election petitions were filed by losing candidates before the 14 election tribunals established across the country. As of last month, 292 petitions, i.e., 73 per cent of all cases, have already been decided by election tribunals. This is unprecedented when compared with the disposal rate of election tribunals in previous elections.

2) Judges of election tribunals were appointed under a faulty process by a biased Election Commission of Pakistan — In previous elections, high court judges were burdened with the responsibility to decide petitions after completing their usual day’s work. Now, election tribunals are manned by retired judges, whose only work is to decide election cases. The ECP did not appoint these judges. Each of the election tribunal judges were proposed by the respective chief justices of the provincial high courts.

3) Election tribunals are purposely going slow — It is correct that election tribunals were not able to meet the 120-day deadline to decide cases. One reason for the delay is the attitude of many losing candidates. Take for example the case of petition number 344 of 2013, Usman Dar vs Khawaja Asif. In its decision, the tribunal wrote: “The way the petitioner avoided to enter the witness box and disregarded the directions of this tribunal on the pretext of business tour abroad, provides a basis to infer that he was/is no more interested in the matter. Costs of adjournments to the tune of Rs30,000/- have not been paid by the petitioner till date. It appears that after filing the election petition, the petitioner lost interest in the election dispute and then attempted to prolong the trial … the petitioner failed to prove the allegations … (and) the election petition is found to be without any merit and is accordingly dismissed … .”

4) If election tribunals decided the PTI’s cases, the PML-N government would collapse — The PTI candidates filed a total of 58 petitions challenging National and provincial assembly elections in various constituencies. Of these, 39 petitions, i.e., 70 per cent have already been decided by the election tribunals. Unfortunately for the PTI, none of the 39 cases were successful. Now, only 19 PTI petitions remain to be decided. Even if each of these is decided in the PTI’s favour, it will not dent the overall election result.

5) Election tribunals are favouring the PML-N — Thus far, 10 elected parliamentarians of the PML-N have been unseated by the election tribunals. This is the highest number of decisions against any political party. Judgments in only two petitions have gone against PTI candidates. Independent candidates are the biggest winners thus far with eight cases in their favour, followed by the PPP at six.

6) If the government has nothing to hide, then why is it refusing to open the cases of four seats demanded by the PTI — The election results on the four National Assembly seats, i.e., NA-110, NA-122, NA-125 and NA-154 have already been opened and are subjects of judicial inquiry by the election tribunals, which are the only forum for opening disputed results of any election. The government has no role to play here.

7) Unprecedented rigging on four seats — NA-110 was one of the four seats cited for election rigging. According to FAFEN, the number of electoral violations in NA-110 is zero. Compare this with NA-1, where Imran Khan won the election. The electoral violations here are listed as 58 by FAFEN. The point is not that the NA-1 result was manipulated simply because FAFEN listed these violations. The point is that there were approximately 90,000 polling stations across the country. Electoral law violations in some of these, deplorable as they may be, do not make these a rigged parliament.

8) The PML-N rigged elections to defeat the PTI’s Jahangir Tareen — NA-154 is another one of the four seats. Here, the PML-N is blamed for stealing Tareen’s victory. But it is interesting to note that the PML-N candidate here also lost the election. The winner was an independent candidate, Mohammad Siddik Baloch. If the PML-N wanted to rig this seat, why would its candidate come a distant third?

9) Even the PPP supports the demand to reopen result of four constituencies — The PPP is happy that the PTI is focusing attention solely on Punjab. The PPP lost a large number of safe seats in Punjab. Although this has happened before, this time, the loss threatens its very existence in Punjab. In the famous four constituencies, the PPP received an abysmal one per cent, 1.6 per cent, 2.9 per cent and five per cent of total votes cast and its candidates lost even their security deposits. Therefore, how can the PPP resist the opportunity to help de-legitimise the election results in these constituencies?

10) The PTI exhausted all forums provided by law before coming on the streets — The Representation of Peoples Act provides that the forum to contest election results is the election tribunals. Around 73 per cent of all cases have already been decided by them. Anyone aggrieved by their decisions can file an appeal in the Supreme Court as mandated by law. Rule of law is not just an empty slogan to be raised in public rallies and television talk shows. It is the foundation which we must abide by if we are to build a modern and stable Pakistan.

Published in The Express Tribune, August 4th, 2014.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Can any PTI stalwart answer these?
 
Can any PTI stalwart answer these?


They can't, they already know all these things. 4 Halka to be opened, they are opened, they ask for election reforms, that demand was also accepted, they demand whole Election get audited, That also accepted,

Problem actually is not PTI, it's Government who is getting blackmailed and started to accept the demands. They should have kept quiet and let PTI and Judiciary play this rigging game.

PTI lost the election pretty badly, they started rigging as excuse for their failure. And when they found things working in their way, they used same thing to BlackMail Government. They only know this way, politics, Ruling and working for people are some unknown words for them. What else to expect?
 
Yes i support this March and IK here ....well better than doing nothing at all like other traditional Politicians and drawing room Analysts sitting in AC rooms all the time and unnecessarily criticizing each and everything under the sun...Just to sound "Different" and "Cool" in their fake and usual boring "Analysis"....

Damned if You Do,Damned if You Dont!
 
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Playboy turn politicians ???? As far as he is honest and can at least do better than old politicians who have proven again they only way they know is to run country as its there property.

Okay I shouldn't have attacked his private life but he is part of the elite class.
 
They can't, they already know all these things. 4 Halka to be opened, they are opened, they ask for election reforms, that demand was also accepted, they demand whole Election get audited, That also accepted,

Problem actually is not PTI, it's Government who is getting blackmailed and started to accept the demands. They should have kept quiet and let PTI and Judiciary play this rigging game.

PTI lost the election pretty badly, they started rigging as excuse for their failure. And when they found things working in their way, they used same thing to BlackMail Government. They only know this way, politics, Ruling and working for people are some unknown words for them. What else to expect?

Very strong views. There is value in PTI maintaining pressure for reform. This dharna warna thing is over the top, but we need electoral reforms. No doubt about that.
 
Very very appropriate at this time. Do read. I have posted this on PTI Political Desk thread. But considering the discussion here. It is very relevant here:

Ten truths about electoral rigging
By Zahid F. Ebrahim
Published: August 4, 2014



The writer is an advocate of the Supreme Court and can be reached on Twitter @zfebrahim

The PTI and PML-N are unable to resolve their political differences. Therefore on August 14, Islamabad is bracing for a clash, which will test Pakistan’s democracy. Imran Khan, who will lead the Azadi march from Lahore to Islamabad, calls it a “decisive battle”. The tempo for the long march has been built on a series of rallies in Punjab where the PTI has repeatedly hammered home its case against electoral rigging. These arguments have mostly been taken at face value. Let’s see how they fare in the light of facts put together by FAFEN, an independent election monitoring NGO.

1) Election tribunals have failed to decide cases — Around 410 election petitions were filed by losing candidates before the 14 election tribunals established across the country. As of last month, 292 petitions, i.e., 73 per cent of all cases, have already been decided by election tribunals. This is unprecedented when compared with the disposal rate of election tribunals in previous elections.

2) Judges of election tribunals were appointed under a faulty process by a biased Election Commission of Pakistan — In previous elections, high court judges were burdened with the responsibility to decide petitions after completing their usual day’s work. Now, election tribunals are manned by retired judges, whose only work is to decide election cases. The ECP did not appoint these judges. Each of the election tribunal judges were proposed by the respective chief justices of the provincial high courts.

3) Election tribunals are purposely going slow — It is correct that election tribunals were not able to meet the 120-day deadline to decide cases. One reason for the delay is the attitude of many losing candidates. Take for example the case of petition number 344 of 2013, Usman Dar vs Khawaja Asif. In its decision, the tribunal wrote: “The way the petitioner avoided to enter the witness box and disregarded the directions of this tribunal on the pretext of business tour abroad, provides a basis to infer that he was/is no more interested in the matter. Costs of adjournments to the tune of Rs30,000/- have not been paid by the petitioner till date. It appears that after filing the election petition, the petitioner lost interest in the election dispute and then attempted to prolong the trial … the petitioner failed to prove the allegations … (and) the election petition is found to be without any merit and is accordingly dismissed … .”

4) If election tribunals decided the PTI’s cases, the PML-N government would collapse — The PTI candidates filed a total of 58 petitions challenging National and provincial assembly elections in various constituencies. Of these, 39 petitions, i.e., 70 per cent have already been decided by the election tribunals. Unfortunately for the PTI, none of the 39 cases were successful. Now, only 19 PTI petitions remain to be decided. Even if each of these is decided in the PTI’s favour, it will not dent the overall election result.

5) Election tribunals are favouring the PML-N — Thus far, 10 elected parliamentarians of the PML-N have been unseated by the election tribunals. This is the highest number of decisions against any political party. Judgments in only two petitions have gone against PTI candidates. Independent candidates are the biggest winners thus far with eight cases in their favour, followed by the PPP at six.

6) If the government has nothing to hide, then why is it refusing to open the cases of four seats demanded by the PTI — The election results on the four National Assembly seats, i.e., NA-110, NA-122, NA-125 and NA-154 have already been opened and are subjects of judicial inquiry by the election tribunals, which are the only forum for opening disputed results of any election. The government has no role to play here.

7) Unprecedented rigging on four seats — NA-110 was one of the four seats cited for election rigging. According to FAFEN, the number of electoral violations in NA-110 is zero. Compare this with NA-1, where Imran Khan won the election. The electoral violations here are listed as 58 by FAFEN. The point is not that the NA-1 result was manipulated simply because FAFEN listed these violations. The point is that there were approximately 90,000 polling stations across the country. Electoral law violations in some of these, deplorable as they may be, do not make these a rigged parliament.

8) The PML-N rigged elections to defeat the PTI’s Jahangir Tareen — NA-154 is another one of the four seats. Here, the PML-N is blamed for stealing Tareen’s victory. But it is interesting to note that the PML-N candidate here also lost the election. The winner was an independent candidate, Mohammad Siddik Baloch. If the PML-N wanted to rig this seat, why would its candidate come a distant third?

9) Even the PPP supports the demand to reopen result of four constituencies — The PPP is happy that the PTI is focusing attention solely on Punjab. The PPP lost a large number of safe seats in Punjab. Although this has happened before, this time, the loss threatens its very existence in Punjab. In the famous four constituencies, the PPP received an abysmal one per cent, 1.6 per cent, 2.9 per cent and five per cent of total votes cast and its candidates lost even their security deposits. Therefore, how can the PPP resist the opportunity to help de-legitimise the election results in these constituencies?

10) The PTI exhausted all forums provided by law before coming on the streets — The Representation of Peoples Act provides that the forum to contest election results is the election tribunals. Around 73 per cent of all cases have already been decided by them. Anyone aggrieved by their decisions can file an appeal in the Supreme Court as mandated by law. Rule of law is not just an empty slogan to be raised in public rallies and television talk shows. It is the foundation which we must abide by if we are to build a modern and stable Pakistan.

Published in The Express Tribune, August 4th, 2014.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Can any PTI stalwart answer these?



Too many flaws in this analysis. You have posted it in three different threads. I am gonna reply it in your own thread PTI Dharna Politics and Possible Scenarios

In short, this article is showing only one side of story. the sole purpose of this analysis is to down grade PTI and refute its allegations in anyway possible without being neutral.

Above all, the article is written by son of Ex-ECP chairman Fakhruddin Ibrahim, so you can see a son desperately trying to save his father's repute.. :D
 
Too many flaws in this analysis. You have posted it in three different threads. I am gonna reply it in your own thread PTI Dharna Politics and Possible Scenarios

In short, this article is showing only one side of story. the sole purpose of this analysis is to down grade PTI and refute its allegations in anyway possible without being neutral.

Above all, the article is written by son of Ex-ECP chairman Fakhruddin Ibrahim, so you can see a son desperately trying to save his father's repute.. :D

Everyone is corrupt except PTI people. This is the standard line. Its getting tiring. Whatever you post there, be sure to share it here also. I had to stuff something Leader's face. You know how he is. I would not have posted it there.
 
Everyone is corrupt except PTI people. This is the standard line. Its getting tiring.

Have some common sense sir. That analysis just feeds anti PTI sentiments, nothing else.

And I don't have anything to do with Leader, he has his own point of views and way of dealing with things.
 
Amused to see such a tough competition. The poll is still in the favour of NO to Azadi march.

We must focus on reforms, its time to work for the sake of the country. For how many years are we going to play street politics and continue pulling legs of each other. Our neighbours has gone far beyond us because of the very reason. They have really tough fighting during the election but at least accept the election results and move on with it. It's not that "dhandhli" does not happen in India, but they have learned to accept the results
 
Amused to see such a tough competition. The poll is still in the favour of NO to Azadi march.

We must focus on reforms, its time to work for the sake of the country. For how many years are we going to play street politics and continue pulling legs of each other. Our neighbours has gone far beyond us because of the very reason. They have really tough fighting during the election but at least accept the election results and move on with it. It's not that "dhandhli" does not happen in India, but they have learned to accept the results


Still support for Azadi March is pretty decent.

These long marches and protests are for election reforms, PTI has waited for 14 long months to get things done peacefully. But looks like the govt isn't gonna listen to these things seriously without facing the music. Look how they have hastily formed a 33 members committee for election reforms and called its first session at 6th August. This committee wasn't formed in past 14 months, but now its formed within few days time.. :D

I am sure, PTI isn't gonna resort to any unconstitutional tactics to topple govt. PTI can call for mid term elections which is constitutionally right, but they won't resort to anarchy. I see govt coming down to its knees before or after the long march, and PTI will convert this sit in into a Jalsa after achieving the objectives.

Next few days are very important, if PTI will resign from National Assembly, then it is clear that PTI is sadly going all out against govt, if they won't resign, then that mean what I have said above is gonna happen.. Lets hope for the best. I believe in IK's intentions, his intentions are right so far, to reform the electoral system and support democracy.
 
I don't support this so called "azadi march". I like Imran Khan and what he has done with his charities. His political policies are however nothing but talk and he fails to show how he would implement his grand plans. This march seems nothing but an ego thing because he lost he previous election. Now he wants to topple an elected government so he can have another go at it.
 
I am sure, PTI isn't gonna resort to any unconstitutional tactics to topple govt. PTI can call for mid term elections which is constitutionally right, but they won't resort to anarchy. I see govt coming down to its knees before or after the long march, and PTI will convert this sit in into a Jalsa after achieving the objectives.

Next few days are very important, if PTI will resign from National Assembly, then it is clear that PTI is sadly going all out against govt, if they won't resign, then that mean what I have said above is gonna happen.. Lets hope for the best. I believe in IK's intentions, his intentions are right so far, to reform the electoral system and support democracy.
As I said in other post

Yesterday, I met with one of the key leaders of PTI (UK) whose name is written amongst the noble leaders of PTI on insaf.pk website. He was so certain that the government will fall in August that I cannot describe in words. He was like "oh jee andar sab plan tayyar hai, guarantees li jaa chuki hain ab bas takhta ulatna baaqi hai". :lol:

His comments hurt me more than I was happy about the change of government, hoping/battle for true democracy continues...

I am not too sure about what PTI aims to achieve. If they are all for shouting in the public to gain votes, it is understandable but when they are embracing all the rotten tomatoes of PML-Q, Tahir ul Qadri, Sheikh Rasheed and all. It just makes no sense for the party who took birth on its own, they did not need anybody's support to gain strength. On top of that they are probably planning to have a final battle of die or die with the government.

PTI right now is not giving clear indication of what it plans to do. If it's just a march, we all may become party of the azadi march but if it plans to truly derail the government in place then the chances are Azadi march may transform into Anarchy march and majority even within the PTI may not be standing besides them.
 
this is one of the reasons i support azadi march
Tribunal disqualifies PML-N MPA, orders re-election in PP-37 Gujranwala
Last Updated On 05 August,2014 About 5 minutes ago
231375_25574305.jpg

Muhammad Ashraf Warraich belonged to Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz (PML-N).

GUJRANWALA (Dunya News) - The election tribunal has declared null and void the election of MPA Muhammad Ashraf Warraich and ordered re-election in 33 polling stations of PP-37 Gujranwala.

Muhammad Ashraf Warraich was the candidate of ruling Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz (PML-N) party.

According to details, Justice Kazim Malik ordered to hold re-polling in 33 polling stations of PP-37 Gujranwala within seven days.

The decision was taken in response to a petition filed by PML-Q leader Nasir Cheema who also contended for the same seat.

The petitioner alleged rigging in PP-37 and claimed that Warraich’s victory was engineered.
 
They can't, they already know all these things. 4 Halka to be opened, they are opened, they ask for election reforms, that demand was also accepted, they demand whole Election get audited, That also accepted,

Problem actually is not PTI, it's Government who is getting blackmailed and started to accept the demands. They should have kept quiet and let PTI and Judiciary play this rigging game.

PTI lost the election pretty badly, they started rigging as excuse for their failure. And when they found things working in their way, they used same thing to BlackMail Government. They only know this way, politics, Ruling and working for people are some unknown words for them. What else to expect?


Really? Check here-> Rebuttal to Zahid Ibrahim's 10 Myths about Elections
 
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