Do ‘Syria,’ ‘Iraq’ and ‘Lebanon’ Still Exist?

[al-Hasani]

@FaujHistorian

Nonsense with all due respect. Hijaz and the Eastern Province were always affluent areas since antiquity due to the ancient trade routes, Makkah and Madinah, the largest gold mine of the ME, very strategic location and a lot of trade since millenniums. Pearl trade as well.

We Arabs nearly sat on most of the world trade for 1000 years. From the 7th century to the 15th century when the Europeans started their colonialism and started to dominate the trade routes.

Over 2000 years earlier the very same region sat/controlled the ancient Frankincense trade which at that time was transported from China to Rome/Greece and was the most expensive commodity on earth. More expensive than gold back then.

KSA is the 43rd most populous country in the world and there are over 200 countries of the world. This makes KSA among the 20-25% of the world's most populous countries.

Pakistan is one of the most populous countries where people are multiplying as much as people in Sub-Saharan Africa and India. Bad, bad comparison.

What brutal intelligence services? Not more "brutal" than your average non-Western European intelligence service and significantly better than most Muslim countries.
Crimes rates are among the lowest in the world in KSA.

Ottomans only ruled through VASSAL states such as my family (Hashemites) while 80% of all KSA was not even under Ottoman influence or rule but ruled by local dynasties. It has never been conquered by outsiders like a few other places on earth.

The British had no role whatsoever in Al-Saud acquiring power. They did it themselves. Read about Saudi Arabian history. It was LOCAL infighting and not any foreigners that united and thus created what is now KSA. The borders were made by the conquest of Al-Saud and the British had to bomb the Ikhwan near Iraq, Jordan and Kuwait to stop further expansions.
The very sam Al-Saud conquered the Kingdom of Hijaz which was a British ally NOT the other way around.

 

[FaujHistorian]

@FaujHistorian

Nonsense with all due respect. Hijaz and the Eastern Province was always affluent due to the ancient trade routes, Makkah and Madinah, the largest gold mine of the ME, .

Tell me how much gold came out of that mine from 1600 AD-1890 AD

Thank you

 

[al-Hasani]

Tell me how much gold came out of that mine from 1600 AD-1890 AD

Thank you

Please read my whole post. Enough to make Hijazis a affluent people compared to the standards of the time back then and those of the region. Add the hajj, major trade routes, Jeddah back then still being the largest sea port in the Red Sea and Makkah and Madinah that yearly attracted rich and poor alike from across the world. Most importantly the population was really small compared to the situation today (like anywhere else in the region and nearly world) which created less competition.There were no famines or outbreaks of major diseases like in other parts of the ME. The Eastern Province was also affluent for some of the same reason although less.

Najd though was impoverished and mostly based on farming and trade. There were famines there as well at the turn of the 19th century.

Of course when I say affluent it is not comparable to what it meant to be affluent in let us say Netherlands or England at that time. But we Hijazis had it better than most non-Europeans back then. At least the urban population.

 

[Irajgholi]

i read on al-monitor almost a month ago that israel plans to aid kuridstan in creation of kuridstan entity, to create new allies for themselves, the writer of this article forgets the fact that kurds by definition are iranian and yet they do exist!

@Sinan @xenon54 @BronzePlaque some advocating creation of state of kurdistan bros? whats ur take on this?

 

[FaujHistorian]

Please read my whole post. Enough to make Hijazis a affluent people compared to the standards of the time back then and those of the region. Add the hajj, major trade routes, Jeddah back then still being the largest sea port in the Red Sea and Makkah and Madinah that yearly attacked rich and poor alike from across the world. Most importantly the population was really small compared to the situation today (like anywhere else in the region and nearly world) which created less competition. There were no famines or outbreaks of major diseases like in other parts of the ME. The Eastern Province was also affluent for some of the same reason although less.

Najd though was impoverished and mostly based on farming and trade. There were famines there as well at the turn of the 19th century.

No answer. You said gold mine

then how much gold came out of it during the European colonization period.

KSA barely escaped from suffering the same fate as Iran at the hands of British domination. Do you know why?


May be time permitting, I do plan to write how the dynamics of european colonization worked and why certain countries squeaked by and others did not. And the reasons you are giving right now are utterly incorrect.


However you must realize that KSA region was a Turkish colony.

 

[al-Hasani]

No answer. You said gold mine

then how much gold came out of it during the European colonization period.

KSA barely escaped from suffering the same fate as Iran at the hands of British domination. Do you know why?

Yes, I used the gold mine and other mineral extraction (that has a history of 5000 years + in Hijaz) mines as examples of aspects that helped the region financially. Other being ancient trade routes, the hajj (Makkah and Madinah), Jeddah being one of the biggest ports of the ME and the biggest in the Red Sea, the rule being stable, no famines, no epidemics etc. I don't have the data but I know that it existed back then. The Rashidun, Umayyad (5th largest empire in history), Abbasid and Fatimid Caliphates used the gold mines of Hijaz, especially Mahd ash Dhahab, to make their gold coins etc. They were using the gold mines centuries before the period of European colonization of the world so it would strike me as very strange if it was not used in a similar fashion. It was used at least.

Mahd adh Dhahab - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

No need to state the obvious. Because the Europeans took the throne of the Arabs and other people who controlled the major trade routes of the world and also beat them in terms of colonizations and influence. This remains to this day.

 

[FaujHistorian]

i read on al-monitor almost a month ago that israel plans to aid kuridstan in creation of kuridstan entity, to create new allies for themselves, the writer of this article forgets the fact that kurds by definition are iranian and yet they do exist!

@Sinan @xenon54 @BronzePlaque some advocating creation of state of kurdistan bros? whats ur take on this?

Iraq should have a federation of 4 to 5 provinces.

Each province should elect its government.

Federal gov should have only military and foreign offices.

Federal government should be selected by the provinces. That's the only long term solution for any country that is geographically large or culturally diverse

peace

Yes, I used the gold mine and other mineral extraction (that has a history of 5000 years + in Hijaz) mines as examples of aspects that helped the region financially. Other being ancient trade routes, the hajj (Makkah and Madinah), Jeddah being one of the biggest ports of the ME and the biggest in the Red Sea, the rule being stable, no famines, no epidemics etc. I don't have the data but I know that it existed back then. The Rashidun, Umayyad (5th largest empire in history), Abbasid and Fatimid Caliphates used the gold mines of Hijaz, especially Mahd ash Dhahab, to make their gold coins etc. They were using the gold mines centuries before the period of European colonization of the world so it would strike me as very strange if it was not used in a similar fashion. It was used at least.

Mahd adh Dhahab - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

No need to state the obvious. Because the Europeans took the throne of the Arabs and other people who controlled the major trade routes of the world and also beat them in terms of colonizations and influence. This remains to this day.

My study proves that there was no gold being extracted ruing the period of Ottoman colonization of KSA.
None during the time when European colonization happened.

So your point about gold mine is not linked to the period I was talking about.


Remember one basic rule of life

If someone tries to tell you the truth, never resist.

Thank you

 

[al-Hasani]

@FaujHistorian

Then show me your study and I will show you Arabic sources that confirm what I say tomorrow. Deal? It is getting really late here and I need to sleep after a long night of studying.

KSA did not exist when the Ottomans controlled only one region of KSA (Hijaz and not even partially) through LOCAL vassal states such as the Hashemites that I happen to belong to. So I should know the history I would say. The same Hashemite who predated the very existence of the Ottomans by CENTURIES as rulers of Hijaz. Not just as Hashemites.

Sharif of Mecca - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The point anyway is that Hijaz was a affluent region compared to the standards of the ME and non-Europe in general in the era of the European colonization period roughly from 1500-1945 which the examples and facts I mentioned should illustrate. The hajj alone made the citizens of Makkah and Madinah very well-off compared to the situation of the ME back then. Let alone the other aspects that I have repeatedly mentioned.
Hijaz obviously had poverty as well. Also harsh one in the villages of the mountains, small coastal villages or those in the steppe/desert/hilly interior. Which region of the ME had not back then? Even UK which was the most powerful country back then (in that period overall - 1500-1945) had most of its population impoverished and living in what we would call horrible conditions today. Especially the working class. Yes, Europe was for once FAR ahead of the ME but it was not AS horrible as many would like it to sound.

Najd on the other hand which was ruled by successive local dynasties in that time period (Al-Saud, Al-Rashid etc.) were significantly worse off as I already described. There was a famine as late as the start of the 20th century. Some outbreaks of diseases as well. The locals only had trade and agriculture to live off. Like most other places of the world back then but Najd was harsh harsh due to the many conflicts, isolation and climate. That today is used to exaggerate the puritanism of the local Najdi people which is far from the reality.

 

[That Guy]

I hate to say this. but

KSA -minus- natural petroleum = Yemen (or even worse Somalia)


KSA has a budget of $250 billion per year for only 30 million people.

Do you know how many people are 30 million?? They are like a Karachi combined with a one more medium size city.

That's it.

KSA is being controlled liked collection of city states managed by one of the most tough and brutal police/intel.

Brutal mostly for the Jihadists. However occasionally Jihadists still slip through.

And a monarchy that is wise, and sane but 1000 times tough when it comes to anyone who doesn't fall in line.


Learn to appreciate and educate yourself

Okaaaay, I fail to see how that negates what I said in anyway.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Okaaaay, I fail to see how that negates what I said in anyway.

Because it is not in the same class of resources as the other countries mentioned.

Thus your counter argument was invalid

 

[Shah9]

Yes, like they did everywhere in the world, NEARLY. We did not allow the bastards to do it though.





List of largest empires - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

no one is going to take this seriously with this garbage..

first of all, KSA was weak and mainly desert filled with unarmed tribes that the British never cared because it was under their rivalry Ottoman empire who controlled the middle east and northern africa for over 500 years.

British and the French had to remove the Ottoman to divide the middle east because they were controlling it then later it collapsed, and the British came and met Arabian tribes to create mini lands and puppets for their interest.

Otherwise, tribes would be fighting each other for power and control if the British didn't meet the tribes.

 

[That Guy]

Because it is not in the same class of resources as the other countries mentioned.

Thus your counter argument was invalid

No, my argument was that KSA never fell apart like the other nations that suffer from such insurgencies; I never said why that was, that's just you assuming.

I don't think you quite understood what I said.

Even then, your argument doesn't make much sense, because the natural resources didn't start to impact KSA in a major way until decades after we saw the first insurgent movements in the region. In fact, the difference between KSA and Yemen was not that noticeable until the early to mid 80s.

 

[FaujHistorian]

No, my argument was that KSA never fell apart like the other nations that suffer from such insurgencies; I never said why that was, that's just you assuming.

I don't think you quite understood what I said.

Even then, your argument doesn't make much sense, because the natural resources didn't start to impact KSA in a major way until decades after we saw the first insurgent movements in the region. In fact, the difference between KSA and Yemen was not that noticeable until the early to mid 80s.

Yes For that the credit goes to its pro-West Kings,

 

[That Guy]

Yes For that the credit goes to its pro-West Kings,

Again, what does any of this have to do with my original comment?

 

[FaujHistorian]

Again, what does any of this have to do with my original comment?

Because you can only do blind comparisons in the land of one-eyed