Discussion on HOBS capability for PAF.

[Kompromat]

Currently PAF has short range AIM-9L/M and PL-5EII missiles as its mainstay WVRAAMs on top of BVRAAMs like AMRAAM, SD-10A etc

As our F-16 go through MLU-MIII, and more Vipers arrive from Jordan with a likelihood of similar upgrades and the JF-17 Thunder enters Block-II production, a need for HOBS capability is becoming important.

Since WVR combat remains the dominating reality of S.Asian air combat scene, PAF is aiming to equip all of its future fleet with Helmet Mounted Targeting Systems. PAF's new and MLU F-16s have JHMCS and a HMTS is planned for the JF-17 aircrafts as well.

This points to the need for a 5th generation AAM. Please discuss which missiles on the market should the PAF consider.

AIM-9X = Available for PAF but the US may not allow its integration on our 150-250 Thunders.

PL-10 = Under development, available for Thunders but the US wont allow its integration on the F-16s.

R-Darter = Under development, Unproven at this stage.

MICA = Unavailable due to Rafale deal with IAF

Python V/IX = Unavailable.

IRIS-T = Available, can be integrated on both Thunders and F-16s, is an export success, already in service with almost 10 countries.

I would personally prefer the PAF to opt for the IRIS-T. The very fact that a single missile can be deployed on both Vipers and Thunders with credible HOBS capability is a big plus and would be a cheaper solution in the long run.

Please discuss.

@Manticore @gambit @Dazzler @Oscar @500

 

[Cherokee]

IS IRIS-T 5th Gen AAM ?

 

[Hemlock Khalid]

price is another important factor... what is the price range for each of these missiles???

 

[Kompromat]

IS IRIS-T 5th Gen AAM ?

Yes.

price is another important factor... what is the price range for each of these missiles???

All of them are in the same price range. What matters is that we must have a credible HOBS capability for all of our fleet in the future. IRIS-T offers a great interim interoperable solution for both our Vipers and Thunders. Its range is a sufficient bridge between a BVR and close in dogfight engagements.

 

[SQ8]

The A-Darter is a viable solution. Under Development between Mectron and Denel.. both firms with which the PAF has good business relations.

 

[Hemlock Khalid]

then I agree with u... IRIS-T is better option than AIM 9 X coz it can b employed by both our fighters

 

[Kompromat]

The A-Darter is a viable solution. Under Development between Mectron and Denel.. both firms with which the PAF has good business relations.

Its still under development, so its hard to say how good its performance would be.

Would Americans allow us to integrate them onto our vipers?

Whats your opinion about IRIS-T?

 

[slapshot]

@Aeronaut What would be the advantage of using single missile against complete fleet? Using multiple platforms seems more interesting.

 

[SQ8]

Its still under development, so its hard to say how good its performance would be.

Would Americans allow us to integrate them onto our vipers?

Whats your opinion about IRIS-T?

The Americans would, its a Brazilian weapon and its Sidewinder compatible. Whether it is compatible with JHCMS is the main question.

 

[aliyusuf]

Can anyone corroborate about rumors I have been hearing that work along these Iines or work on an advanced seeker is currently going on indigenously / JV?

 

[Kompromat]

The Americans would, its a Brazilian weapon and its Sidewinder compatible. Whether it is compatible with JHCMS is the main question.

True. Lets wait and see as it won't be too long before it becomes operational.

Don't the Greeks have IRIS-Ts on their F-16s?

 

[SQ8]

True. Lets wait and see as it won't be too long before it becomes operational.

Don't the Greeks have IRIS-Ts on their F-16s?

Yes they do, since it offered faster operational capability than the AIM-9X.

 

[Kompromat]

@Aeronaut What would be the advantage of using single missile against complete fleet? Using multiple platforms seems more interesting.

1: When we purchase a missile like this it won't replace the existing inventory of Sidewinders and PL-5EII etc.

2: Its for adding HOBS capability to our airforce. Other missiles will remain useful and can be used in engagements, depending on the mission requirements.

3: If we have a missile like the IRIS-T for both Vipers and Thunders it makes it more cheaper and operationally easy to operate.

Yes they do, since it offered faster operational capability than the AIM-9X.

F-16, JHMCS and IRIST are a lethal combo indeed.

 

[Manticore]

PL-10 and A-Darter: This comparison shows the basic similarity between the Denel A-Darter (top) and the Luoyang PL-10. Source: CJDBY and Internet


This missile could arm most PLA fighters equipped with an IRST, even a short range radar but also with computers capable of processing for the helmet mounted display. This would likely initially include J-10 and J-11B fighters, but then older J-11As, and then late model J-8II and J-7 fighters.

missile.

Air-To-Air Missiles | Command of the air. | Page 7
Concerning The South African BVR Missile
wasnt india interested in A-darter ?

 

[nangyale]

I think a good combination will be IRIS-T along with Pl-10.
Although I guess PAF will go for a combination of AIM-9x and Pl-10. I did hear about some 9x being supplied to Pakistan via Jordan or Turkey.