Dinner is Served

[Contrarian]

Reading it now.

All of Pakistan's current problems is its own doing, sure the UN would have no problem denuking Pakistan if the country ever completely lost control but every event up to that point is due to the incompetence of the GOP, it is as if after acquiring the bomb they had fulfilled their purposes in life and brought the whole country to a standstill.

Very well stated.
Just one addition...Our leaders are a reflection of our society and they are as competent or as incompetent as the society is and/or wishes them to be.

 

[VCheng]

Reading it now.


Very well stated.
Just one addition...Our leaders are a reflection of our society and they are as competent or as incompetent as the society is and/or wishes them to be.

"Cream rises to the top, but scum to the top of a dirty pond" ?

That is unlikely, as there is a distinct disconnect between who lives in Pakistan and those that rule it. The majority dont connect with the Elite or ruling class and hence see them as a curse and conspiracy as well. So essentially, they consider themselves absolved of all blame. In addition, the "Inshallah" effect takes its toll on any accountability of self .. both individually and as a collective; which implies that a higher power wishes things to happen and I cant do jack about it.

So what you are basically saying is that an effective solution is unlikely.

 

[Contrarian]

"Cream rises to the top, but scum to the top of a dirty pond" ?

Exactly.
But In both cases, its the society which decides who goes to the top.
The people cannot absolve blame from themselves by playing the hapless victim card. The leaders of any society are a reflection of that society.

 

[SQ8]

So what you are basically saying is that an effective solution is unlikely.

Quite unlikely in my view. Again when I say this, I refer to a solution that results in stability of progress, of equality and rights, of rule of law, of humanity. All other scenarios are up for game which involve a continued existence of Pakistan in somewhat further tipsy state to its current predicament.

 

[VCheng]

Quite unlikely in my view. Again when I say this, I refer to a solution that results in stability of progress, of equality and rights, of rule of law, of humanity. All other scenarios are up for game which involve a continued existence of Pakistan in somewhat further tipsy state to its current predicament.

That is why I have said above that it is in USA's (and China's, and others too) interests to try and maintain a stable Pakistan. The nation might not want it, but others might see to it that it survives as you put it.

 

[SQ8]

That is why I have said above that it is in USA's (and China's, and others too) interests to try and maintain a stable Pakistan. The nation might not want it, but others might see to it that it survives as you put it.

The Buffer between India and the wild west has always been a convenient outcome.

 

[VCheng]

The Buffer between India and the wild west has always been a convenient outcome.

That buffer has only existed since 1947, which is such a small fraction of the total history of the region. If it were to end, would that be too disastrous to contemplate? May be not.

 

[Panther 57]

Are all the failures that have contributed to the "impending failure" of a "chaotic and lawless nuclear armed nation" all attributable to the international community? Or are these the attempted rationalizations of a failed internal strategy that backfired?

The article itself apportions blame, if you read it again. Who is cooking the dinner? without connivance of insider it is not possible.

 

[SQ8]

That buffer has only existed since 1947, which is such a small fraction of the total history of the region. If it were to end, would that be too disastrous to contemplate? May be not.

Not exactly, that buffer has existed in some form or another. If it were to end, the result may be disastrous in the short term for the whole Hindukush belt.. but would probably settle down eventually. Where it would be disastrous would be for other conflict regions with nuclear weapons(not in weaponized form but dirty) widely proliferated to an extent that the powers that be would not be able to contain.

 

[VCheng]

Not exactly, that buffer has existed in some form or another. If it were to end, the result may be disastrous in the short term for the whole Hindukush belt.. but would probably settle down eventually. Where it would be disastrous would be for other conflict regions with nuclear weapons(not in weaponized form but dirty) widely proliferated to an extent that the powers that be would not be able to contain.

The point to note is that the said buffer does not require a unified State of Pakistan as it exsits now. The proliferation concerns are valid, but those were dealt with in the Soviet satellites quite effectively, and I am sure similar mechanism can be deployed to minimize the risks.

Having said that, the easiest solution would be to stabilize Pakistan, no doubt. However, it is not an absolute requirement.

The article itself apportions blame, if you read it again. Who is cooking the dinner? without connivance of insider it is not possible.

There is no "apportioning" that can be justified. 100% of the blame rests fairly and squarely within the country. All of it.

 

[SQ8]

The point to note is that the said buffer does not require a unified State of Pakistan as it exsits now. The proliferation concerns are valid, but those were dealt with in the Soviet satellites quite effectively, and I am sure similar mechanism can be deployed to minimize the risks.

Having said that, the easiest solution would be to stabilize Pakistan, no doubt. However, it is not an absolute requirement.

Not at all, but a settlement of the Kashmir issue(via political and economic integration of the masses) is required to enforce the borders of this buffer. Nothern Punjab can easily be Bangladeshized while the South can be left as "Laos". Sindh and Karachi will eject extremism automatically.. while Balochistan has the potential to be an independent natural resources state. What remains can be left to reintegrate with Afghanistan and continue to be a wild west as it is.

The soviet satellite states did not have political ideology sitting to take over the weapons as they stood. So measures may be a little less effective.

 

[livingdead]

first of all is there a problem.. there is low level conflict going on, the sort we saw in India earlier. Is that really a big problem?

 

[krash]

*Taken care of*

 

[VCheng]

Not at all, but a settlement of the Kashmir issue(via political and economic integration of the masses) is required to enforce the borders of this buffer. Nothern Punjab can easily be Bangladeshized while the South can be left as "Laos". Sindh and Karachi will eject extremism automatically.. while Balochistan has the potential to be an independent natural resources state. What remains can be left to reintegrate with Afghanistan and continue to be a wild west as it is.

The soviet satellite states did not have political ideology sitting to take over the weapons as they stood. So measures may be a little less effective.

There are many scenarios that can be played out, but the easiest one will continue to be a stabilized Pakistan.

 

[Panther 57]

Balochistan has the potential to be an independent natural resources state. What remains can be left to reintegrate with Afghanistan and continue to be a wild west as it is.

It appears to be that way. However, if at all such situation occurs, another Afghanistan is in making. If you turn the pages of history you will find that peace has never prevailed in Afghanistan and apparently would not in future also, though all prayers for its peaceful existence.