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Did Pakistani fire caused IAF Jaguar losses

This is IAF attacking and KILLING Pakistani soldiers in 2002 --- And claimimg the kill
http://vayu-sena.tripod.com/other-loonda-kargil-ii.html

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VayuSena


The Kargil-II Incident
[v1.1][14.Nov.2009][© VayuSena]

Introduction

The year 2002 was witness to a full mobilisation by the Indian Army post the high profile terrorist attack on the Indian Parliament on 13th Dec 2001. Pakistan Army also mobilised in response. Amidst these tensions the two forces regularly attacked each at the Line of Control (LoC) in Jammu and Kashmir (J&K). Most of these firings were minor skirmishes resulting in no loss of life; indeed artillery and small arms fire had been regular occurrence for several years. However, in one event the Indian Air Force (IAF) was called upon to bombard Pakistani troops. The battle leading to eviction of Pakistani intruders was euphemistically called “Kargil-II” in the popular media owing to the outward similarities of the operation to the Kargil War in 1999.

Pakistan Army Intrusion

The incident was covered in some detail by Praveen Swami of the “The Hindu” newspaper. According to Swami, Pakistan occupied four sangarhs (improvised bunkers made of stone) and forward trenches that had been built by Indian troops over the years at Loonda Post which is in the Machhal (or Macchil) Sector. Reportedly unexpected whiteout conditions due to rain and fog provided cover to the Pakistani troops.

The area was the responsibility of a battalion of the Sikh Light Infantry under the 53 Infantry Brigade. The overall command of the LoC in the area fell with the 15 Corps.

Loonda Post has strategic value because it overlooks Kel town in the Neelam Valley on the Pakistani side of the LoC. It is not known how long the Pakistani troops were occupying the feature.

However, the official statement by the Indian government released later denies that Loonda Post was captured by the Pakistan Army [A]:



“It is not factually correct that the Pakistan troops had occupied a strategic post on our side of the Line of Control which necessitated a massive attack by Indian troops & air force on Loonda post in Machal sector. However, in the last week of July 2002, there was minor Pakistan intrusion, approximately 800 meters on our side of the Line of Control in the area of Point 3260, which is 1800 meters East of Loonda post.”


As to why the feature was lost to Pakistani troops;

“Point 3260 is not considered tactically important and viable for physical occupation by our own troops. Being in close proximity of the Line of Control and the area not being physically occupied, Pakistan troops had intruded into this area. However, since the area is regularly patrolled by our own troops, they observed presence of some Pakistan troops in the area of Point 3260 on July 26, 2002”.

The Operation

The intrusion was detected on 26th July when a patrol by Sikh LI was ambushed leading to 3 deaths. Per other reports the intrusion was detected by a UAV. The Indian Army responded with 155 mm fire FH-77B ‘Bofors’ howitzers and mortars on the feature from three sides. Mi-17s flew in special forces. In the counter bombardment from Pakistani artillery 11 Indian soldiers belonging to Sikh LI and attached Ladakh Scouts troops lost their lives. Post the initial clashes the Army raised a request to the IAF for support. The IAF in turn sought prior approval from the Defence Minister.

On 2nd August [C], a multi ship formation of Mirage-2000s from the 7 Sqn “Battleaxes” went airborne with precision guided munitions on board. Time on Target: 1315 hrs.

As many as 8-12 Mirage-2000s were involved in the mission, which was led by the CO 7 Squadron - Wg Cdr Rajesh Kumar with four arriving on the target. Wg Cdr Kumar dropped the first 1000 pound bomb followed by other aircraft. The air attack was defended against by SAMs.

The Indian Army was able to recapture the post after the attack destroyed Pakistani positions. To recognition of his actions Wg Cdr Rajesh Kumar was awarded the Vayu Sena Medal (Gallantry) in 2003. The CO of the Sikh LI Bn, Colonel V.K. Malhotra was removed from command but was cleared of all charges in the following inquiry.

Pakistan losses added to 28 deaths in the operation.

Battle in Gultari?

In a press conference on 23rd August 2002, PA public relations officer Major General Rashid Quereshi, known for dishonest statements since the Kargil War, alledged that the IAF had attacked forward Pakistani posts in Gultari area in support of the Indian Army on night of 22nd/23rd. It was claimed that the PA had retaliated in defence leading to death of Indian troops. The Indian Army completely denied the whole affair and furnished that no casualties had occurred in that timeframe. The claim coincided with the visit of a senior American diplomat Richard Armitage to Pakistan, and hence is thought to be fabricated and not related to the Loonda post incident. Possibly the bogey was raised to pre-empt any such plans by the Indian armed forces?

It is not clear as to why there was no such claim from the Pakistani side during the actual battle in Machal. It can be speculated that since it would mean admission of defeat, Pakistani sources did not reveal it. Secondly, the Pakistani claim would have been untenable given the sanctity the marked LoC boundary enjoys since the Kargil War in international circles.

Notes:




So why did you claim that PAF had shot them down

Change your Thread Title

Your TITLE is FALSE and mis leading

It is only meant to attract members to just read a false story

latest
 
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Epic Fail.
Jaguars Crashed due to bad weather.The enquiry found out that as both aircraft were flying close to each other and visibility was low both crashed into a hill while practicing low level flight.
The enquiry commission found fault with the Squadron commander for sanctioning lo altitude exercises despite poor weather.
 
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@Stephen Cohen

Wings Of Shame

http://archives.digitaltoday.in/indiatoday/20020401/defence.html


Epic Fail.
Jaguars Crashed due to bad weather.The enquiry found out that as both aircraft were flying close to each other and visibility was low both crashed into a hill while practicing low level flight.
The enquiry commission found fault with the Squadron commander for sanctioning lo altitude exercises despite poor weather.

Try again.

There were four aircraft in formation.....first it was said they collided, then they crashed due to bad weather.
 
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Also the IAF AN-32 was not hit by PAF but by a MANPAD and Pakistanis had no idea that it was hit until IAF reported it So there was no question of claiming it.
Anyways it( Sn: K-2736) was repaired and returned after few weeks.
 
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Air turbulence due to BAD weather

If PAF had fired ; you would have claimed the kill

Just like we claimed the Atlantique kill
We never claimed firing on AN-32 and two Janguars crashing at same time can only happen if the collided with each other or were shot down.
 
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Also the IAF AN-32 was not hit by PAF but by a MANPAD and Pakistanis had no idea that it was hit until IAF reported it So there was no question of claiming it.
Anyways it( Sn: K-2736) was repaired and returned after few weeks.
Read my post again, it was hit by an Anza missile hence there's no question of PAF.
As for not knowing, i guess you are oblivious to the fact that one engine actually fell off the AN-32.
 
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Why are you raining on his parade, let him be happy for once.

My friend, I was adding to the subject and there is nothing like that. Thought that may clear the ambiguity of different happenings on the same times. Like, AN-32 case was different so also, @Windjammer was asking for any confirmation or news w.r.t subject so I participated with what I found.
 
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No planes crashed near the LOC on that date

Air turbulence due to BAD weather

If PAF had fired ; you would have claimed the kill

Just like we claimed the Atlantique kill

Just like PAF shot down IAF 1 attack helicopter, 1 fighter jet and crashed down another IAF fighter jet in kargil war ? :D
 
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@Windjammer @Zarvan @Delnavaz B @war&peace

Both bad weather and collision reports are correct
While bad weather was the primary cause the enquiry commission found that the crash occured as all 4 aircraft flying very close to each other their may have also been a mid air collision.

Anyways the crash happened near Gunf ie 30-50km from LoC.

Pakistan did not possess any SAM in 2004 with that kind of a range.

Here are reports from 2004:

The fighter planes, along with two other Jaguars, were on a formation valley training exercise when they entered an area
of strong turbulence. While two Jaguar pilots managed to pull their aircraft out of turbulence and return to their base at
Ambala in Haryana, the other two aircraft lost contact with ground control

http://m.rediff.com/news/2004/apr/03jag1.htm
 
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@Windjammer @Zarvan @Delnavaz B @war&peace

Both bad weather and collision reports are correct
While bad weather was the primary cause the enquiry commission found that the crash occured as all 4 aircraft flying very close to each other their may have also been a mid air collision.

Anyways the crash happened near Gunf ie 30-50km from LoC.

Pakistan did not possess any SAM in 2004 with that kind of a range.

Here are reports from 2004:



http://m.rediff.com/news/2004/apr/03jag1.htm
It is plausible but then shows the low level of skills and professionalism by the dumb pilots or bad maintenance as four airplanes lost in a single mission is not very common in non-war conditions. Formations have standard distances between A/C especially if they were on a non-combat mission.
 
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