Did Pakistani fire caused IAF Jaguar losses

[Joe Shearer]

And what about manners and comparing a new female member with a Cow and Chicken thats what your dear friend did.

This will please you, @Delnavaz B , so read it fully and carefully.

Oscar is one of the two whom I respect the most on the forum because whatever he says is authentic, and beyond challenge, apart from being logically unassailable. He is responsible for one of my most embarrassing moments (this is the part that will warm your heart); I used to programme many years ago, and he was then immersed in technology. In a sadistic moment (probably been stood up by a date that weekend), he asked me some slightly complex questions, which I couldn't answer, and which my former colleagues still in touch with technology didn't bother to answer. Since that day, I look forward to his posts with great interest and avidity, and cheerfully align my position with his, if they differ. (There is another person I admire at that level, but he is far too senior and sober and out of the mill of this daily cut-and-thrust exchange for me to even mention him by name; just know that he is wisdom personified).

So if you complain to him, and he shakes his finger in my direction, I will cheerfully change to calling you ostrich and she-elephant instead. No hesitation at all.

PS: Seriously, I know I must manage my anger better. I am thinking about how to do this. The trouble is suddenly a stupid post comes to my attention, and before I know what is happening, I have written a scalding reply. I hate stupidity and lack of attention to factual detail, but must stop getting angry about it.

 

[Assault Rifle]

@Windjammer
Lol

let me ask you, the AN-32 was hit over Pakistan, it even lost one engine yet still made it back to it's base, which wasn't exactly a stone throw away, why didn't those abroad try to parachute out....

BUSTED.

BTW Delhi University has a digital database of several Pakistani newspapers from 1958-2016.
It is accessible all students and staff with a valid library card.

 

[Delnavaz B]

@Windjammer
Lol


BUSTED.

BTW Delhi University has a digital database of several Pakistani newspapers from 1958-2016.
It is accessible all students and staff with a valid library card.

So Delhi student can read Urdu

 

[Joe Shearer]

I think whisky won't

So Delhi student can read Urdu

Whisky? Can't afford the stuff any more (don't drink Indian whisky).

About Urdu, one of the best collections is the Hamdard Library, an incredible treasure trove. But we are not too badly off in Hyderabad.

 

[Hellfire]

@Windjammer

Clarification for your post #16 since I can not find the post of @Stephen Cohen which you have quoted, am using your post reference to clarify the post you have quoted.

The story of use of airpower in form of Mirage 2000s as stated in the link which @Windjammer has quoted in his post #16 quoting @Stephen Cohen is incorrect as the feature's proximity and LC alignment was such that there would have been a 'violation' of Pakistani airspace.

The said ridge, Lunda ridge in Machchal Sub-sector is again a case similar to Pt 5353 which another Pakistani member was claiming as a 'victory', the commonality being of the LC being on it dividing the ridge geographically.

Insofar, the alignment of the Ceasefire Line (as named after the Karachi agreement and since renamed LC after Shimla Agreement) runs slightly south of this ridge, the Lunda ridge which is aligned in east-west direction, with Pachnar being south of it and the ridge proper being on Pakistani side of LC.

The point 3260, is a feature due south-west of this ridge and on Indian side of the LC. The Lunda ridge was intermittently patrolled by either side (today having permanent Pakistani posts) and somewhere in 1990s, the post at Pt 3260 was held by the BSF and witnessed the annual pullback during winter seasons. The Pakistanis occupied this feature in the concerned year and the concerned Sikh LI and 3 VIKAS (not Ladakh Scouts) and 7 Para troops launched the attack and took the feature when it was occupied by Pakistani troops from BSF. However, since the Pakistani forces dominated the feature from their positions on Lunda ridge proper, the alignment of the positions held by India was suitably altered in view of the situation. As a result, today the Indian troops intermittently occupy the feature for some weeks at a stretch and due to the ceasefire, the situation is peaceful and calm.

I merely wanted to clarify that any claims that air force was used in the said attack, is incorrect and factually wrong. It was an artillery supported ground assault and was successfully carried out by the concerned troops.

Also, as I pointed out earlier that the feature is dominated by Pakistani posts and they were successful in ensuring difficulty in resupply by Indians, the position was re-aligned and adequate dominance was ensured from alternate locations. Pertinent to note, this is an area thickly vegetated and the Pakistani Post at lower point of the ridge on its eastern shoulder is the 'launch pad' for all ingress along this area from the axis Kel - Pakistani 'Ringpen' village along Machchal Nala through the Pachnar.

The write up is true regarding launch of Mirage 2000s ... but they were not employed in this sector.Period.

Also, the Brig Commander was not the gentleman named in the referenced article as undermentioned

http://www.rediff.com/news/2002/aug/15josy.htm

Its incorrect

@Oscar Sir your post #53 and #55 .. sense and ... more or less accurate.

Thanks for the sense as always.

 

[Hellfire]

Pakistan shot down these 2 IAF Jaguars violating our airspace and soverignty. It is very rare you loose two aircrafts at the same time with exuses of bad weather & collision to simple accident especially lingering around so close Pak-India Border.

Reference it. At best - a tale and totally inaccurate

It is plausible but then shows the low level of skills and professionalism by the dumb pilots or bad maintenance as four airplanes lost in a single mission is not very common in non-war conditions. Formations have standard distances between A/C especially if they were on a non-combat mission.

Not exactly a great idea - the bold portion. I have lost a very dear friend in a jag incident while he was leading an extremely low level practice session and he was a top notch pilot.

However, what you say is absolutely fine, but the weather patterns of the area where they were flying - tend to change with local weather phenomenon. While Met reports and clearances are obtained prior to any flight mission, the same is not always possible to actually predict in mountainous terrain.

That is why SASE detachments have been deployed extensively to give an indicator for local weather patterns as this region is unforgiving for any error of judgement in flying in narrow vales and at high speeds.

As for the An-32 incident, what has been reported of flying too close to LC for the same and it being hit by a missile, is true. The same flew into the 10 km no-fly zone for fixed wing aircrafts on either side without prior intimation due to an error on a checkpoint wherein the crew took a wrong turn.

 

[war&peace]

Reference it. At best - a tale and totally inaccurate



Not exactly a great idea - the bold portion. I have lost a very dear friend in a jag incident while he was leading an extremely low level practice session and he was a top notch pilot.

However, what you say is absolutely fine, but the weather patterns of the area where they were flying - tend to change with local weather phenomenon. While Met reports and clearances are obtained prior to any flight mission, the same is not always possible to actually predict in mountainous terrain.

That is why SASE detachments have been deployed extensively to give an indicator for local weather patterns as this region is unforgiving for any error of judgement in flying in narrow vales and at high speeds.

As for the An-32 incident, what has been reported of flying too close to LC for the same and it being hit by a missile, is true. The same flew into the 10 km no-fly zone for fixed wing aircrafts on either side without prior intimation due to an error on a checkpoint wherein the crew took a wrong turn.

Hmm, you have good points. I know about the local weather phenomena as it happened to me too in King Air C90 but the pilot (my colleague) very skilfully controlled the airplane as it plunged in a vacuum or air pocket on aft of the mountain near Kerepakupai Meru in Venezuela otherwise, I would have not been able to make the comment here.

 

[Hellfire]

Hmm, you have good points. I know about the local weather phenomena as it happened to me too in King Air C90 but the pilot (my colleague) very skilfully controlled the airplane as it plunged in a vacuum or air pocket on aft of the mountain near Kerepakupai Meru in Venezuela otherwise, I would have not been able to make the comment here.

I have travelled in the area by air, its highly unpredictable for the transports and helicopters, and we are talking about fighters here.

Thats why, my point. I am glad you are able to correlate, only extrapolate it to extremely high speed and low altitude flying for area fam and op preparedness flying.

Thanks

@Joe Shearer You don't have anger issues, you simply tend to go into hyperbole with non-sense like the thread yesterday you were trying to talk sense to 'stick to topics' and 'all strategies is worked out' & 'it is secret'. LOL

 

[war&peace]

I have travelled in the area by air, its highly unpredictable for the transports and helicopters, and we are talking about fighters here.

Thats why, my point. I am glad you are able to correlate, only extrapolate it to extremely high speed and low altitude flying for area fam and op preparedness flying.

Thanks

@Joe Shearer You don't have anger issues, you simply tend to go into hyperbole with non-sense like the thread yesterday you were trying to talk sense to 'stick to topics' and 'all strategies is worked out' & 'it is secret'. LOL

I can imagine as fighter-jets would be flying at relatively higher speeds though I would think they should go slow near the mountains and a fighter-jet has much energy and manoeuvrability than a general aviation A/C. I would still say that if the pilot has a good knowledge of his machine, he can escape all kinds of situations like a phoenix.
Have you been to Venezuela ? A very nice country.

 

[Hellfire]

I can imagine as fighter-jets would be flying at relatively higher speeds though I would think they should go slow near the mountains and a fighter-jet has much energy and manoeuvrability than a general aviation A/C. I would still say that if the pilot has a good knowledge of his machine, he can escape all kinds of situations like a phoenix.

The bold portion - LOL. Am sure lot would indeed wish that it was so. However, the stretch as you near Banihal pass and move north towards Ladakh is very turbulent due to trades as also topographical aspects playing havoc. The narrow vales of general area Sonamarg and adjacent Zoji-La pass are a nightmare in bad weather .. Not much your knowledge can do in fighters in bad weather and unforgiving terrain .. Anyways point is valid but difficult in this context.

AND I HATE YOU ..... DAMN LUCKY GUY ... VENEZUELA!!!!!!


You, sir, are on my hate list now

Nope didn't have the pleasure. But from my reactions above, you can make out my sentiments...

 

[war&peace]

The bold portion - LOL. Am sure lot would indeed wish that it was so. However, the stretch as you near Banihal pass and move north towards Ladakh is very turbulent due to trades as also topographical aspects playing havoc. The narrow vales of general area Sonamarg and adjacent Zoji-La pass are a nightmare in bad weather .. Not much your knowledge can do in fighters in bad weather and unforgiving terrain .. Anyways point is valid but difficult in this context.

AND I HATE YOU ..... DAMN LUCKY GUY ... VENEZUELA!!!!!!


You, sir, are on my hate list now

Nope didn't have the pleasure. But from my reactions above, you can make out my sentiments...

Well, the picture you portrayed seems quite daunting and perhaps it gets beyond the skill set of fighter pilot or even the capabilities of his machine..
I visit south America a lot and despite their hate for Americans (in some parts of South America), my Pakistani / Arabic look helps me to get friendly with locals ...
The area around Angels falls is amazing, one of my colleagues, after we landed said " She hope she could die in such an amazing place" IDK how genuine was that but it is mesmerising, You should also add Machu Picchu ( we camped there for three nights) in your list, we are planning to return there for making a short film.

I think it will be enough for you to hate until you visit those places

 

[Hellfire]

Well, the picture you portrayed seems quite daunting and perhaps it gets beyond the skill set of fighter pilot or even the capabilities of his machine..
I visit south America a lot and despite their hate for Americans (in some parts of South America), my Pakistani / Arabic look helps me to get friendly with locals ...
The area around Angels falls is amazing, one of my colleagues, after we landed said " She hope she could die in such an amazing place" IDK how genuine was that but it is mesmerising, You should also add Machu Picchu ( we camped there for three nights) in your list, we are planning to return there for making a short film.

I think it will be enough for you to hate until you visit those places

At all webmasters ... Hate post of this gentleman .... He is rubbing it in.....lol

Some day yes.



See you around.

Have fun and gudnite
Thanks

 

[war&peace]

At all webmasters ... Hate post of this gentleman .... He is rubbing it .....lol

Enjoy .. Some day yes .... We will share notes on these things too.

See you around.

Have fun and gudnite
Thanks

I'll be glad to exchange notes
Have fun!!!
Though I have no intention of falling asleep in the middle of day

But you have good day or night