DG ISPR on ICJ verdict: another 27th February for india...another surprise day!

[Mav3rick]

THE COURT,
(1) Unanimously, Finds that it has jurisdiction, on the basis of Article I of the Optional Protocol concerning the Compulsory Settlement of Disputes to the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations of 24 April 1963, to entertain the Application filed by the Republic of India on 8 May 2017;

(2) By fifteen votes to one, Rejects the objections by the Islamic Republic of Pakistan to the admissibility of the Application of the Republic of India and finds that the Application of the Republic of India is admissible

(3) By fifteen votes to one, Finds that, by not informing Mr. Kulbhushan Sudhir Jadhav without delay of his rights under Article 36, paragraph 1 (b), of the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations, the Islamic Republic of Pakistan breached the obligations incumbent upon it under that provision;

(4) By fifteen votes to one, Finds that, by not notifying the appropriate consular post of the Republic of India in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan without delay of the detention of Mr. Kulbhushan Sudhir Jadhav and thereby depriving the Republic of India of the right to render the assistance provided for by the Vienna Convention to the individual concerned, the Islamic Republic of Pakistan breached the obligations incumbent upon it under Article 36, paragraph 1 (b), of the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations;

(5) By fifteen votes to one, Finds that the Islamic Republic of Pakistan deprived the Republic of India of the right to communicate with and have access to Mr. Kulbhushan Sudhir Jadhav, to visit him in detention and to arrange for his legal representation, and thereby breached the obligations incumbent upon it under Article 36, paragraph 1 (a) and (c), of the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations;

(6) By fifteen votes to one, Finds that the Islamic Republic of Pakistan is under an obligation to inform Mr. Kulbhushan Sudhir Jadhav without further delay of his rights and to provide Indian consular officers access to him in accordance with Article 36 of the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations;

(7) By fifteen votes to one, Finds that the appropriate reparation in this case consists in the obligation of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan to provide, by the means of its own choosing, effective review and reconsideration of the conviction and sentence of Mr. Kulbhushan Sudhir Jadhav, so as to ensure that full weight is given to the effect of the violation of the rights set forth in Article 36 of the Convention, taking account of paragraphs 139, 145 and 146 of this Judgment;

(8) By fifteen votes to one, Declares that a continued stay of execution constitutes an indispensable condition for the effective review and reconsideration of the conviction and sentence of Mr. Kulbhushan Sudhir Jadhav.

Summary: Pakistan has violated international law by denying India consular access to Kulbhushan Jadhav, the International Court of Justice (ICJ) has ruled. The ICJ in the Hague, in a 15-1 decision, ruled that Pakistan had failed to inform Mr Jadhav of his rights, and deprived the Indian government "of the right to communicate with and have access to [him], to visit him in detention and to arrange for his legal representation".
"A continued stay of execution constitutes an indispensible condition for the effective review and reconsideration of the conviction and sentence,". The only judge to dissent was Tassaduq Hussain Jillani. ICJ president judge Abdulqawi Ahmed Yusuf, who read out the judgement, also directed Pakistan to review and reconsider the death sentence awarded to Jadhav under the provisions of the 1963 Vienna Convention that defines a framework for consular relations between countries

https://www.icj-cij.org/files/case-related/168/168-20190717-SUM-01-00-EN.pdf
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-48932951

Basically, tomorrow i.e. Friday morning, we can inform Jhadav of his rights to consular access, arrange consular access under supervision and start a trial under civilian court. We can give the court a week to conclude the trial, conclude the trial on Thursday and hang Jhadav by Friday next. And all this will be compliant to ICJ rulings.

And yet India will claim victory!!!

As long as Pakistan is a signatory, it must abide by the provisions of the Vienna Convention. Of course, if it wants to leave it, then it should declare it to be so.

We did sign it a very long time ago but never ratified it, as is required. And India still isn't a signatory to Vienna convention.

 

[Jackdaws]

Salaam



Sorry, I should've been clearer. I was talking about the following points made by 'Jagrity Sablok' in his/her tweet. I'm asking about the following points:

1: Kulbhushan Jadhav is not coming home.

2: His judicial review will be done by Pakistan's Court system, not ICJ.

3: Death Sentence still stands.

4: Councillor access can be rejected under 2008 bilateral agreement.

5: Terrorism charges not annulled.

Justice have Prevailed??


---


I hope that clarifies my question.

1. He isn't coming home - that's correct. Not for a long time, probably never.

2. The ICJ has established its jurisdiction. It has asked Pakistan to conduct a fair trial after giving him consular access and that means a civilian court. It has asked Pak to change its legislation if so required.

3. No. Death sentence is specifically suspended as of now.

4. Consular access can not be denied under any agreement.

5. No charges are annuled. The trial has been pretty much called a kangaroo court trial. You can put more charges or less charges - that's up to the prosecution. Best of luck proving any charge.

Basically, tomorrow i.e. Friday morning, we can inform Jhadav of his rights to consular access, arrange consular access under supervision and start a trial under civilian court. We can give the court a week to conclude the trial, conclude the trial on Thursday and hang Jhadav by Friday next. And all this will be compliant to ICJ rulings.

And yet India will claim victory!!!



We did sign it a very long time ago but never ratified it, as is required. And India still isn't a signatory to Vienna convention.

Actually, you incapable of doing that.

 

[Mav3rick]

Actually, you incapable of doing that.

If you mean meeting the timelines I posted, perhaps, but only because the will may not be there to hang Jhadav in a week's time. If you mean capability then you are very wrong.

 

[Jackdaws]

If you mean meeting the timelines I posted, perhaps, but only because the will may not be there to hang Jhadav in a week's time. If you mean capability then you are very wrong.

Oh, you are fully capable of hanging him. Heck, you can shoot him tomorrow instead of hanging him. But if you conduct an actual trial in a civil court in the public domain - your country's narrative will collapse in your own court.

 

[SIPRA]

If you mean meeting the timelines I posted, perhaps, but only because the will may not be there to hang Jhadav in a week's time. If you mean capability then you are very wrong.

It should be very much clear by now, to even a person of ordinary intelligence, that it is not in the Pakistan's interest and advantage, to hang or kill KJ. That, in fact, would be the hidden desire of India. Pakistan would like to keep this issue internationalized, by whatever means, and till now, it has been very successful. Most probably, Pakistan would create such conditions that India once again approach ICJ, for some relief; so that this issue is again reported worldwide, for obvious reasons.

 

[Mav3rick]

Oh, you are fully capable of hanging him. Heck, you can shoot him tomorrow instead of hanging him. But if you conduct an actual trial in a civil court in the public domain - your country's narrative will collapse in your own court.

And that's where you are so very very wrong. We all know Jhadav was a serving RAW agent who had wreaked havoc on Pakistan and that he is a terrorist from a terrorist organization who deserves to be hanged.

 

[Vortex]

Let us see what he decides.

Obviously. After all he is our Prime Minister.

 

[Jackdaws]

And that's where you are so very very wrong. We all know Jhadav was a serving RAW agent who had wreaked havoc on Pakistan and that he is a terrorist from a terrorist organization who deserves to be hanged.

Ok. That's why the secret trial. No defence attorney. We will see how it pans out.

 

[The Eagle]

Can anyone confirm whether ICJ asks Pakistan to release KJ as trial was unfair, provide him safe passage because he is a civilian, never had two valid passports and was never involved in espionage, terrorism/terror supervising-financing so also, he is innocent hence, acquitted from all the charges? And he is released by Pakistanis under our international commitments to say? or ICJ can enforce our domestic law/Courts?

Regards,

 

[VCheng]

Obviously. After all he is our Prime Minister.

And therefore the responsibility lies with him for dealing with the situation.

 

[Vortex]

And therefore the responsibility lies with him for dealing with the situation.

Yes.

you have expressed your point of view with which I don’t disagree totally and expressed mine which is in opposition to your’s.

Now PM can have same opinion as you, or same as mine. Or even another point of view. And at the end I will accept what he choose to do, even if I disagree. I won’t take arms against state nor start bashing gov.

 

[VCheng]

Yes.

you have expressed your point of view with which I don’t disagree totally and expressed mine which is in opposition to your’s.

Now PM can have same opinion as you, or same as mine. Or even another point of view. And at the end I will accept what he choose to do, even if I disagree. I won’t take arms against state nor start bashing gov.

PMIK deserves to be given the rest of his term, surely. But that does not place him above criticism. Taking up arms against the State is not an option here at all.

 

[Vortex]

PMIK deserves to be given the rest of his term, surely. But that does not place him above criticism. Taking up arms against the State is not an option here at all.

Criticism should be put aside for the time being. We have to clean our house by eradicating the nefarious cancerous cells. Then yes open bar for constructive criticism.

 

[VCheng]

Criticism should be put aside for the time being. We have to clean our house by eradicating the nefarious cancerous cells. Then yes open bar for constructive criticism.

Fair criticism is merely an expression of proper patriotism. To try and shut it down by labeling it unpatriotic is dishonest in the extreme.

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." - Theodore Roosevelt.

Can anyone confirm whether ICJ asks Pakistan to release KJ as trial was unfair, provide him safe passage because he is a civilian, never had two valid passports and was never involved in espionage, terrorism/terror supervising-financing so also, he is innocent hence, acquitted from all the charges? And he is released by Pakistanis under our international commitments to say? or ICJ can enforce our domestic law/Courts?

Regards,

This is the wording of the remedies imposed by ICJ:

"Remedies.
Pakistan under obligation to cease internationally wrongful acts of a continuing
character — Mr. Jadhav to be informed without further delay of his rights — Indian consular
officers to be given access to him and be allowed to arrange for his legal representation.
Appropriate remedy is effective review and reconsideration of conviction and sentence of
Mr. Jadhav — Full weight to be given to the effect of violation of rights set forth in Article 36 —
Choice of means left to Pakistan — Pakistan to take all measures to provide for effective review
and reconsideration, including, if necessary, by enacting appropriate legislation — Continued stay
of execution constitutes condition for effective review and reconsideration of conviction and
sentence of Mr. Jadhav."

https://www.icj-cij.org/files/case-related/168/168-20190717-JUD-01-00-EN.pdf

 

[Vortex]

Fair criticism is merely an expression of proper patriotism. To try and shut it down by labeling it unpatriotic is dishonest in the extreme.

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." - Theodore Roosevelt.



This is the wording of the remedies imposed by ICJ:

"Remedies.
Pakistan under obligation to cease internationally wrongful acts of a continuing
character — Mr. Jadhav to be informed without further delay of his rights — Indian consular
officers to be given access to him and be allowed to arrange for his legal representation.
Appropriate remedy is effective review and reconsideration of conviction and sentence of
Mr. Jadhav — Full weight to be given to the effect of violation of rights set forth in Article 36 —
Choice of means left to Pakistan — Pakistan to take all measures to provide for effective review
and reconsideration, including, if necessary, by enacting appropriate legislation — Continued stay
of execution constitutes condition for effective review and reconsideration of conviction and
sentence of Mr. Jadhav."

https://www.icj-cij.org/files/case-related/168/168-20190717-JUD-01-00-EN.pdf

I agree on the principle what said Roosevelt.

But did USA had corrupts leaders as had/has Pakistan?

Currently we are at cleaning house. When the house will be close to be clean then yes we will remember what Roosevelt said.


About IJC, i just will say (I’m talking on my personal behalf) funck of for the time being.