Deterring a joint China-Pak attack

[SirHatesALot]

Is this a news to you?

You think India is not going to use nuclear weapons against China, bet it first strike or last strike.

Preemptive nuking of China has these advantages: IMO

1. It will instantly cripple Chinese defensive capability and Tibet will be easy to occupy and annex with India.
2. Chinese will be engaged in the aftermath of preemptive nuclear strikes deep in their homeland, rescue and rehab operations will be the major task of PLA.
3. China will lose counter strike capability because soon after nuking China, India and NATO forces will start compelling you to surrender.

The noose is tightening around the neck of China.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...urrounded-us-encirclement-military-bases.html

If we use Nuke first we are done for nobody is going to interfere.

stop hitting yourself , damn so much blood LOL first strike policy of NW should never come to in mind.

Tell that to Pakistan

 

[dabong1]

Simple conclusion we need to develop infrastructure fast on the Indian side. We should engage China with dialog and end the border dispute soon.

And i think things are moving in the right direction.

How dare you talk common sense......(sarcasm)

 

[SirHatesALot]

but nuclear capability and stockpile is tiny comparing with China's,what good you can get from striking us first?

You have to understand in the context in which he is advocating this policy.First strike policy may deter combined attack.

 

[scorpionx]

Joint China-Pak attack sounds just like mumbo jumo hilly billy

 

[navtrek]

Now we have a retired senior Indian naval officer advocating first strike nuclear attack on China and Pakistan.

There is a difference on what is being told and what is being understood by you let me clear it up:

The officer is advocating the use of tactical nukes if India is attacked by

1. The Chinese Army which can launch an air-ground offensive with 10-20,000 motorised troops and 100-300 tanks to capture the entire area it claims as its own in north-eastern Ladakh in 48 hours.

2. The capture or fall of DBO ALG etc

So basically he is not advocating a first strike on China but he is advocating the use of Tactical nukes so that it will deter China from doing any of the above mentioned points.

Now how can we deter China with tactical nukes if we have a no first use policy? Even though in this case we will be using the nukes on Chinese formations on Indian territory.

This is the same logic that Pakistan uses to deter India's cold start.

 

[dabong1]

Now we have a retired senior Indian naval officer advocating first strike nuclear attack on China and Pakistan.

The Indian so-called “no first use” clause has three conditions attached to it which actually makes it redundant. The first condition says that, “any threat of use of nuclear weapons against India shall invoke measures to counter the threat” which doesn’t rule out a pre-emptive nuclear strike. Second, in the clause 2.5 saying, “India will not resort to the use or threat of use of nuclear weapons against States which do not possess nuclear weapons, or are not aligned with nuclear weapon powers,” the term alliance can be translated into various terms. Like should there be a formal defence pact or a treaty between a nuclear weapon states or mere maintaining diplomatic, economic and cultural ties could also be considered as an alliance. Saudi Arabia, Turkey and even Iran can be considered as allies of Pakistan with regards to certain issues. Likewise, Japan, Germany, Italy and South Korea also forms and alliance with the US and thus qualifies for a nuclear first strike. Finally, clause 2.3a, revised in 2003 states that, “however, in the event of a major attack against India, or Indian forces anywhere, by biological or chemical weapons, India will retain the option of retaliating with nuclear weapons.” This implies that if some UN contingent including few Indian troops is attacked with either a chemical or a biological agent in some of the remotest part of the world, India could retaliate with nuclear weapons.
Under such conditions, actually believing in the myth of Indian no first nuclear posture and doctrine is a self-alluded fallacy which practically makes no sense at all.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...ndian-nuclear-no-first-use.html#ixzz2chxJBZjp

 

[SirHatesALot]

There is a difference on what is being told and what is being understood by you let me clear it up:

The officer is advocating the use of tactical nukes if India is attacked by

1. The Chinese Army which can launch an air-ground offensive with 10-20,000 motorised troops and 100-300 tanks to capture the entire area it claims as its own in north-eastern Ladakh in 48 hours.

2. The capture or fall of DBO ALG etc

So basically he is not advocating a first strike on China but he is advocating the use of Tactical nukes so that it will deter China from doing any of the above mentioned points.

Now how can we deter China with tactical nukes if we have a no first use policy? Even though in this case we will be using the nukes on Chinese formations on Indian territory.

This is the same logic that Pakistan uses to deter India's cold start.

That is open to interpretation Chinese may think it an nuclear attack on them and can retaliate.

Joint China-Pak attack sounds just like mumbo jumo hilly billy

Though highly unlikely but one cannot rule out the possibility.

 

[navtrek]

That is open to interpretation Chinese may think it an nuclear attack on them and can retaliate.

As i said deterrence is on face value it will make people think before any adventure.

 

[scorpionx]

Though highly unlikely but one cannot rule out the possibility.

The international reaction will be massive.First, before venture such stupid moves hope the military strategists keep Russia and US factors in mind. Secondly,how long these two countries afford economic stagnancy imposed upon them when the war breaks out and India plays a victim hood card well.

 

[Splurgenxs]

I doubt that any serious military planner takes the adversary's No First Use declarations seriously.

What country would willingly go to its death and leave all its nuclear arsenal untouched?

u have been speaking my mind of late.


common sense seems to be lacking from most of these discussions.


On topic , the very presence of nukes makes it necessary that all conflict that is to be instigate should be done so on a very limited basis. The problem with that is that the instigator loses face to a big degree. The outcomes tend to be Pyhrric . Covert warfare is the name of the game these days.

 

[GR!FF!N]

first...Chinese Heliborne troops???China still $uck$ in airlift capability,right???Mi-17 is unsuitable in LEH area(proved during Kargil) and They still use IL-76 for Airlift..so,how they're going to bring enough soldiers and supplies to DBO sector while they can't access that region from China side,not via car at least...

now the matter of motorized regiment and 300 tanks,China has soldiers..so have we..and both of us lacks in terms of light tank thats suitable in that region..India relies on BMP-2 and ATGM to do that job..and they've to provide adequate air cover to their invaded force,quite tough inside Indian border,don't you think???

as for second front,India already formulate that its should neutralise threats from Pakistan while fending off Chinese attackers as much as can and open a second front where an offensive to take some parts of enemy territory will be conducted..Indian Armed force is preparing themselves this way..also,its not 1962,so international pressure will stop the war within week,if not days...

 

[beijingwalker]

first...Chinese Heliborne troops???China still $uck$ in airlift capability,right???Mi-17 is unsuitable in LEH area(proved during Kargil) and They still use IL-76 for Airlift..so,how they're going to bring enough soldiers and supplies to DBO sector while they can't access that region from China side,not via car at least...
.

you are too optimistic about India army while non of your generals are ,we have way better facilities ,roads on our side.

Should India-China relations ever deteriorate to the verge of military confrontation and if riots in Tibet erupt, the People's Liberation Army's mountain brigades can rapidly deploy to the region. Railway and road construction have been China's Himalayan strategy for decades.
China speeds past India's slow train to Himalayas | Reuters

 

[GR!FF!N]

you are too optimistic about India army while non of your generals are ,we have way better facilities ,roads on our side.

China speeds past India's slow train to Himalayas | Reuters

you have better roads in DBO sector????

 

[SQ8]

Interesting that certain senior officials can add to warmongering when the reality is quite the opposite. Listing all these capabilities is naught when China has no intentions to use them since it prefers a détente with economic benefits. It seems that the OP despite his experience and age is having a flight of fancy with his ideas of a Joint Pakistan-China adventure.

 

[Enemy]

woh sab baad mei... check out the footage of Indians and Chinese jostling (I think in AP) on front page of TOI

I didn't know that soldiers behave this way -- pushing and shoving.

Will US marines ever allow soldiers from a foreign country touch their uniforms? Will any American soldier allow an enemy to pollute the sanctity of his uniform?

Why nobody was firing a single shot? How can Indian army do this?

I think, now someone from India should go to the border and fire a shot at the Chinese, if Indian army can't do that.