Deteriorating situation in Nagorno-Karabakh

[al-Hasani]

wow i didnt expect that from you!

What is there to expect? Religion can be and often is used in a political way often with the end goal of reaching power or influence. Is that now what all of us are driven by to a large extent? Survival of the fittest? I assume so after observing humans from across the world. I am sure that I am not any different. In fact I know that I am not.
How is that different from using linguistic, historical, ethnic, racial etc. reasons in a political way to gain the same namely power? Or how is tribalism in sports among supporters and fans different from tribalism among liberals or communists? Or how rulers have used the aristocratic class against the peasants? Or how the elite usually intermingles with other elites. Rich vs poor etc. All that are normal human behaviors.

When you visit places outside of Iran and met an fellow Iranian ,regardless of his religion, ethnic group, social standing, city of origin you probably automatically feel an affinity for him. Because you are both from Iran. That can also be considered tribalism. You would have more affinity with him or her than let us say an Papuan or Spaniard in most of the cases. You call that patriotism and nationalism but it also goes by the name tribalism at its core.

 

[Irajgholi]

So what? We are spreading pan-turkism to 25 million Azeri in Iran. Do you think they will stand behind muslim massacre supporting country like Iran? Even ethnic Persians hate Iran. They want free life. Azerbaijan and Israel can provide that.

I met ethnic Persian girl from Iran and she really had a deep seated hate for Iranian government. The funny thing is that she was picked up by my American friend later hahahaa.

who's we? i think u r talking about yourself in particular? yep ppl might not like mullahs but majority love their country, iran, u r seriously a delusional individual.

so according to ur logic whoever hate the mullahs = hate iran? u r not very smart r u?

 

[SOHEIL]

who's we? i think u r talking about yourself in particular? yep ppl might not like mullahs but majority love their country, iran, u r seriously a delusional individual.

so according to ur logic whoever hate the mullahs = hate iran? u r not very smart r u?

What are your thoughts about this?

Deteriorating situation in Nagorno-Karabakh | Page 4

 

[atatwolf]

who's we?

i think u r talking about yourself in particular? yep ppl might not like mullahs but majority love their country, iran, u r seriously a delusional individual.

so according to ur logic whoever hate the mullahs = hate iran? u r not very smart r u?[/quote]
If Iran is loved by their population why does it surpress its people so much? Because they know if they loose grip they will never get it back. It will happen sooner or later. It is not only Azeri who hate Mullah but also ethnic Persians. I heard that from Persians I met. There is only small radical nutjobs that support the Mullah.

 

[al-Hasani]

First of all we use two synonyms for god. One is islamic one which is allah and second one is tengri. When Turks say tengri they mean all gods, not just Islamic one.

To answer your question about influence of pre-islam relgion and culture. I mean you can do your own research but to give you few examples. The beginning mythology of Turkic peoples is not Islamic but Turkic pagan. Turkics are strongly rooted in Central-Asia mythology and holy symbols like star and cresent (which is TURKIC, not Muslim), Altay Moutains, wolves who saved the Turkic race. Etc.

Here are some examples:
Asena - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Epic of Koroghlu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There are also cultural aspects but you can google that yourself. also Turkish warior code is passed down to modern day Turks. Every Turk is a soldier.

I am honest with you here. I live in Copenhagen right now due to studies. Turks are the biggest foreign community in Denmark right after Germans and Swedes. There are about 40.000 if I recall it correctly. Most came here as guest workers from the late 1960's until the early 1990's. Some came a little later. Half of them are probably Turkish Kurds especially from Konya. The remaining part seems to be Turks of various ethnicities. Not even once in debates with Turks (I know quite a few and study with 2-3 and often eat at places owned by Turks) have I heard the word "Tengri". In fact the first time I heard this word was from you. To this day you are the only Turkish user that I have seen use this word.

Well, the original mythology of the Arabs nor any other people is not Islam either. We were Christians, believed in Judaism or were Pagans (ancient Semitic Gods - many different branches of those pagan religions) before Prophet Muhammad (saws). One can argue that the Abrahamic religions since those are "Semitic" religions originating on lands inhabited by Semitic speaking peoples are all one but still.

Yes, but those are mostly legends or sagas. I mean how much of a role does this play in the every day life of Turks? Not much I Assume. At least I have not seen this.

Anyway thanks for the answer.

 

[DejanSRB]

I hear that Armenian lobby is second most powerful in USA after Jewish.It will be a hard time for that region but I hope that war will avoid that two countries this time.Russia must stabilize situation becouse both nations have interests to enter Euroasian Union.

 

[F117]

Turkic people get along very well

2010 South Kyrgyzstan ethnic clashes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Irajgholi]

What is there to expect? Religion can be and often is used in a political way often with the end goal of reaching power or influence. Is that now what all of us are driven by to a large extent? Survival of the fittest? I assume so after observing humans from across the world. I am sure that I am not any different. In fact I know that I am not.
How is that different from using linguistic, historical, ethnic, racial etc. reasons in a political way to gain the same namely power? Or how is tribalism in sports among supporters and fans different from tribalism among liberals or communists? Or how rulers have used the aristocratic class against the peasants? Or how the elite usually intermingles with other elites. Rich vs poor etc. All that are normal human behaviors.

When you visit places outside of Iran and met an fellow Iranian ,regardless of his religion, ethnic group, social standing, city of origin you probably automatically feel an affinity for him. Because you are both from Iran. That can also be considered tribalism. You would have more affinity with him or her than let us say an Papuan or Spaniard in most of the cases. You call that patriotism and nationalism but it also goes by the name tribalism at its core.

no i mean i didnt expect you to say that reasons for differences between iran and azerbaijan r political, no offence, but based on your previous posts i thought u r still keen on ur racial and ethnical perspectives?

yep i agree with u.

 

[Serpentine]

@atatwolf

Cut your Panturkic nonsense and stay on topic, if you don't want to get banned.

 

[al-Hasani]

no i mean i didnt expect you to say that reasons for differences between iran and azerbaijan r political, no offence, but based on your previous posts i thought u r still keen on ur racial and ethnical perspectives?

yep i agree with u.

How so? Is that a wrong assumption or a correct one? Most conflicts are bound in politics. That's at least what history has shown. All those elements I spoke about are just used to enforce that particular conflict.
What has another discussion concerning something completely else that a few of us users started, have to do with the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict aside from it being noticeable for an outsider that ethnicity and culture also plays a role in this conflict as seen by the participants from both sides? At its core the conflict is about land though. Surprise, surprise.

 

[Irajgholi]

What are your thoughts about this?

Deteriorating situation in Nagorno-Karabakh | Page 4

im Turk myself, so i do support Turks wherever they r, i do think that Turkey and Azerbaijan r our allies in the region. but the country comes first ofc, but i dont see any existential threat from neither Turkey nor Azerbaijan.

 

[SOHEIL]

@atatwolf

Cut your Panturkic nonsense and stay on topic, if you don't want to get banned.

@Serpentine look who is giving all the thanks to atatwolf. Also look this post. 1 example of many:

Deteriorating situation in Nagorno-Karabakh | Page 4

 

[SinaG]

im Turk myself, so i do support Turks wherever they r, i do think that Turkey and Azerbaijan r our allies in the region. but the country comes first ofc, but i dont see any existential threat from neither Turkey nor Azerbaijan.

Azerbaijan Republic does a lot of separatist tactics against Iran dude. They are definitely a existential threat.

 

[Irajgholi]

How so? Is that a wrong assumption or a correct one? Most conflicts are bound in politics. That's at least what history has shown. All those elements I spoke about are just used to enforce that particular conflict.
What has another discussion concerning something completely else that a few of us users started, have to do with the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict aside from it being noticeable for an outsider that ethnicity and culture also plays a role in this conflict as seen by the participants from both sides? At its core the conflict is about land though. Surprise, surprise.

no its correct but in other threads i have seen u condemning Iran for supporting assad, i hope u understand ur arguments can be relatable to that issue as well.

actually most ppl involved in this conflict share very similar culture, as u said it yourself its all about wanting more land.

 

[rmi5]

I hear that Armenian lobby is second most powerful in USA after Jewish.It will be a hard time for that region but I hope that war will avoid that two countries this time.Russia must stabilize situation becouse both nations have interests to enter Euroasian Union.

Thanks buddy. keep your Eurasian Union, aka Russians and their bitches, for yourself. no one needs it. even if Kazakhstan had not such a big Russian minority, and long borders with them , ... I would have said that they need to quit that union as well.