Deradicalization - Pakistani boot camps want to ‘re-program’ ISIS terrorists

[SQ8]

Seems as if you found the bone, atlast...... but wait, it isnt a bone, that i can assure you

You must have had an odd time explaining the spelling and reason for that name tag in your display picture.. I would have had fun getting the guy making it to pronounce it.

Kerix.. Exeric.. Ex-ric..

 

[SQ8]

Indeed, if we had an army of world class psychologists heading a tried and tested program, however, that won't be the case, would it? How would you determine that a former terrorist has gone kosher and is ready to be released into the population?
For something as simple as murder in second degree, people are sent to 10+ years in prison, then why a soft spot for mass murderers? Would 10 years of rigorous prison suffice, maybe 15, maybe 30, maybe 45 or perhaps a 'de-programming' camp of two weeks. The arguments are too week to let loose any of these bastards back into the population. Most of these nutbags are fed on a special kool-aid of religion, which can relapse at any time. Terrorism is like alcoholism, it's just about time that it strikes back. My 'one-lined' remark, was actually backed up by years of observation, of people who were involved with SSP, LeJ, LeT etc etc, none of whom could return back to society, well they tried to, however, they cracked and ended up in a huge ball of fire, taking many innocent lives with them, mostly of their near and dear ones.

@Irfan Baloch, @Oscar: Your views will be highly appreciated as well.

There are both pros and cons to your argument. But the answer to them lies within the psychologists. and the need to focus on the younger or less polluted minds. The more indoctrinated ones however may very well be faking it IMHO and in this I agree with you. There was a reason why "Fitna" mosques were destroyed and most of the followers arrested or executed by caliph Abu Bakr(RA).

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Indeed, if we had an army of world class psychologists heading a tried and tested program, however, that won't be the case, would it? How would you determine that a former terrorist has gone kosher and is ready to be released into the population?
For something as simple as murder in second degree, people are sent to 10+ years in prison, then why a soft spot for mass murderers? Would 10 years of rigorous prison suffice, maybe 15, maybe 30, maybe 45 or perhaps a 'de-programming' camp of two weeks. The arguments are too week to let loose any of these bastards back into the population. Most of these nutbags are fed on a special kool-aid of religion, which can relapse at any time. Terrorism is like alcoholism, it's just a matter of time that it strikes back. My 'one-lined' remark, was actually backed up by years of observation, of people who were involved with SSP, LeJ, LeT etc etc, none of whom could return back to society, well they tried to, however, they cracked and ended up in a huge ball of fire, taking many innocent lives with them, mostly of their near and dear ones.

@Irfan Baloch, @Oscar: Your views will be highly appreciated as well.

there is a level and degree of indoctrination and a point of return or no return.
you can definitely count out those who practice beheading, mutilation, corpse desertion, rape of children and women and impaling unborn child from the wombs of their mothers (yes not a myth, Muslims have done that to people of certain sect and ethnicity along roads in Kohistan and to Gilgit & Charsada).
those that are internet jihadists might be able to change. or some grunt level troops who didnt involve in human rights abuse (this word sounds so inadequate to describe these pests).

there are definitely levels of Taliban
those that are compelled by tribal code, or are coerced and misled for example. yes they are almost all Deobandi and their sectarian indoctrination compels them to purge Pakistan from the "heretic sects"... but they can be turned back into more humane and mainstream Sunni Islam (not the one that lynches people in the name of love of Prophet Muhammad PBUH).

you know the Bakra yes? khasi bakra ? his balls are tied up to disconnect the function of sperm making? it is still a bakra but sterilized... so something on those lines must be part of this re-programming.. where they can continue to hate the world but cant put their hate into words and action (for theoratical argument sake).


do you know why the empires used to lash and execute the "naughties" in town centres? it was for the benefit of general public as a warning. (sadly TTP do that to our soldiers and citizens) and our courts release the terrorists .. if some of these known terrorists are executed in the cities then it will really help with discouraging the wanna be jihadists that normally bully people on the web. they will deflate into their shell after seeing the power of the state.

@Xeric wont admit it but we did few things for display purposes.. "asking" some scum to "leave" the helicopters at say few thousand feet height on top of a settlement in Sawat and FATA for example .. the results were well received by the public.

 

[Xeric]

You must have had an odd time explaining the spelling and reason for that name tag in your display picture.. I would have had fun getting the guy making it to pronounce it.

Kerix.. Exeric.. Ex-ric..

i got it made circa when i changed my nick to Xeric. Those were good times when no one would ask much if you were purchasing military paraphernalia, i also saved the guy the problem of pronunciation when i told him that it is not a name plate but 'something' else.


By revealing it now i saved the guy trying to track me down the 'hardwork' as the shop i got it from is a karyana store now instead of a military store

 

[Xeric]

Indeed, if we had an army of world class psychologists heading a tried and tested program, however, that won't be the case, would it? How would you determine that a former terrorist has gone kosher and is ready to be released into the population?
For something as simple as murder in second degree, people are sent to 10+ years in prison, then why a soft spot for mass murderers? Would 10 years of rigorous prison suffice, maybe 15, maybe 30, maybe 45 or perhaps a 'de-programming' camp of two weeks. The arguments are too week to let loose any of these bastards back into the population. Most of these nutbags are fed on a special kool-aid of religion, which can relapse at any time. Terrorism is like alcoholism, it's just a matter of time that it strikes back. My 'one-lined' remark, was actually backed up by years of observation, of people who were involved with SSP, LeJ, LeT etc etc, none of whom could return back to society, well they tried to, however, they cracked and ended up in a huge ball of fire, taking many innocent lives with them, mostly of their near and dear ones.

@Irfan Baloch, @Oscar: Your views will be highly appreciated as well.

You need to understand that there's a difference between a potential suicide bomber and a practicing beheader.

To simplify it, i would just say that a suicide bomber have been "indocrinated" to become a suide bomber, i.e. the subject had that vacuum in him which was filled in by the indoctrination. Now, by reverse engineering the (alomost) following the same process in the reverse order one can also un-indoctrinate him, no?

i dont say that the process followed in the rehab centers is so simple as i have mentioned, but then it had worked. You give a suicidal some "hope" and you'll make him hate death! Try it.

 

[SQ8]

i got it made circa when i changed my nick to Xeric. Those were good times when no one would ask much if you were purchasing military paraphernalia, i also saved the guy the problem of pronunciation when i told him that it is not a name plate but 'something' else.


By revealing it now i saved the guy trying to track me down the 'hardwork' as the shop i got it from is a karyana store now instead of a military store

Which brings an interesting subject in light of the topic.. and based upon this comment. How much of radicalization have you actually noticed creeping in within the military and general population(where you have been posted) and how much of it was simply this (from Kaiser Tufails blog).Aeronaut: Jacobabad Tales

“There are several Taliban who have been identified on your Base. While we are keeping them under observation, at this point in time I can confirm at least ‘one Taliban’ who could be an imminent threat to us. He has been observing our activities and has been making copious notes which need to be immediately retrieved. Any delay could endanger American lives,” continued McCain. Where, pray, does he operate from, I wondered, when McCain volunteered more information. “There, I will show you,” as we shuffled out of my office. “You see that water tank, there … right under it. He is there, right now, according to our latest reports.” I had to rush to see this ‘Taliban’ in the act so I sped off, waving a see-you-later to McCain.

As I approached the water tank, I saw a familiar figure sitting on a chair under the tank. The other day, I had stopped by to inquire about the overflowing water and he was there to explain a problem with the float valve. I asked him if he had anyone else to give him company to which he replied that he had to do an eight-hour shift, alone at a stretch, which was just as well as he got time to prepare for his private studies. I inquired if I could have a look at his notes, which he was more than keen to show me. A valve operator couldn’t have made better use of his time, if his poetry and prose notes were any indicator of his activities............

Next morning I confronted McCain and asked him about the remaining Taliban. He said that his people were keeping them under watch, but the water tank guy was of greatest concern to his higher-ups. When I told him that he had been interrogated, his ears lit up. He heard with disbelief when I told him that the guy was an employee of the Military Engineering Services and was performing his duties as a water tank attendant for some years. The notes had not been retrieved as his exams were nearing, which got him wondering if I was talking about the right person. “Wasn’t he wearing a grey ‘Taliban’ dress and had a beard? Has he not been observing stuff being off-loaded from transport aircraft? Does he not maintain a log of all activities on the tarmac?” Intelligence information could not have been more fetid, I thought, as McCain rattled off those questions while I wryly smiled, much to his consternation. “Yes,” I replied, “he was wearing a ‘shalwar-kameez’ and had a beard but by that criterion, quite a large portion of Pakistani population could be classified as Taliban.

 

[Hyperion]

I get where you're coming from. Trust me, I do, however, this particular solution is not applicable to our unique situation where these 'potential' terrorists can be fixed by filling some sort of vacuum in their hearts and minds. We are not dealing with your standard IRA/PKK sort of terrorists with some beloved political agenda that is bothering them and giving them sleepless nights. It's mostly way more complex and involves core religious beliefs.

Have you ever tried reverse engineering a Wahabized-Deobandi? Try to teach him/her that other sects are not 'Kaafir'? You'll need at-least two life times to accomplish it, that too is a big maybe. . My friend, there are different types of indoctrination, and the one we are dealing with can not be simply wished/washed away with a deprogramming camp. IMHO, only way to 'de-program' these religious lunatics is by scare-tactics only (as also suggested by @Irfan Baloch). Only absolute fear in their hearts and minds can scare them into submission. Anything short of that, you'll have a time-bomb on your hands......

You need to understand that there's a difference between a potential suicide bomber and a practicing beheader.

To simplify it, i would just say that a suicide bomber have been "indocrinated" to become a suide bomber, i.e. the subject had the vacuum in him which was filled in by the indoctrination. Now, by reverse engineering the same process in the reverse order one can also un-indoctrinate him, no?

i dont say that the process followed in the rehab centers is so simple as i have mentioned, but then it had worked. You give a suicidal some "hope" and you'll make him hate death! Try it.

 

[SQ8]

only way to 'de-program' these religious lunatics is by scare-tactics only (as also suggested by @Irfan Baloch). Only absolute fear in their hearts and minds can scare them into submission. .

You cant scare the hardcore ones with death. What you need is leverage. I have long day dreamed of using similar life like game engines to show these guys their mother, father, brother, sister.. being shot dead/raped/mutilated. That might still have some effect on the idea of honor.

 

[rockstar08]

Bhai this program is actually a good one. Bring the kids back, de radicalise them, upskill them, find them jobs and worth in life. If we can help countries with our experience to deal with ISIS, why not?

dude , are you sure ?? we already have a bloody history with radicals ... not more ..

 

[Hyperion]

My point exactly - only way to make them submit - you call it leverage, I call it de-programming-incentive!!!

to show these guys their mother, father, brother, sister.. being shot dead/raped/mutilated. That might still have some effect on the idea of honor.

 

[Solomon2]

Have you ever tried reverse engineering a Wahabized-Deobandi? Try to teach him/her that other sects are not 'Kaafir'? You'll need at-least two life times to accomplish it, that too is a big maybe.

“Whosoever deludes our youth and our children must answer to God; for them, imprisonment alone is much too lenient a penalty.” - Saudi Arabia King Abdullah link

 

[Solomon2]

My knowledge of the Pakistani rehab program is nonexistent. Can PDF members find out more?

My understanding of the Saudi program is that it doesn't necessarily emphasize "deradicalization" but hammers in the idea that murderous violence should only be implemented at the behest of the Muslim leadership of the community, not by the choice of individuals. So committing violence against the word of, say, King Abdullah is a no-no, but leaving KSA to join ISIS might be perfectly O.K.: link1, link2, link3.

 

[Hyperion]

Most important point to note is in red......

“Whosoever deludes our youth and our children must answer to God; for them, imprisonment alone is much too lenient a penalty.” - Saudi Arabia King Abdullah link

 

[Solomon2]

Some details on Pakistan's rehab program, whose principals believe is superior to the Saudi approach: link1, link2. Note Hafiz Saeed's involvement.

 

[Mosamania]

@Icarus @Xeric @Rashid Mahmood - Proud of you guys !

The Armed Forces are far from perfect but its still head and shoulders above everything else in the country; did anyone else even think of something like this ?

Saudi Arabia opened rehab and de radicalization centers first, and Saudi consultants are running the program in Pakistan.