Democracy is an ineffective system for Pakistan,the army has to act - Pervez Musharraf

[HPCEO]

I agree.

Unless there is at least 90% education rate in Pakistan, there should be a technocratic set-up with a stable govt. Any decent govt with less corruption will do fine.

"Democracy" only after that level of education has been achieved among masses!

pakistan needs more such intelligent people like you. I encourage you to instigate the army for a coup and again bring back the glory of an Army dictatorship in pakistan. All the best and may your dream come true.

 

[Arbiter]

I agree to an extent. Democracy works best when the population is educated and politically active. This is not the case for Pakistan. People keep on voting for the same corrupt politicians even when mountains of evidence is for everyone to see. Copying a system that works in some other country won't do. We must carve out our own system that works for us.

 

[HPCEO]

Democracy is without doubt the best but a ‘Republic’ is not the kind of Democracy which originated in Athens around 508 BC by Cleisthenes. In that every citizen (Demos) took part hence it was “Gov’t of the people, by the people, for the people”.

What we have today is the Republic. Here you elect a Representative to vote on your behalf. Problems occur when elected representatives lose touch with the masses. This is especially true in Pakistan where people vote based on ‘Bradery’, ethnicity, religion and the personality cult and not the issues.

Additionally, parties are run on dictatorial basis and the leadership has turned hereditary. PPP, ANP, JUI etc are prime examples. In fact in Pakistan only truly Democratic Party is Jamaat Islami. Congress party in India is no different. They couldn’t find a Nehru progeny, thus they elected an Italian woman as their leader just because she was widow of Rajeev Gandhi.

Besides, the so called democratic gov’ts carry out most undemocratic acts. For example all the newly elected parties after Musharraf scrapped local Councils and did not hold local body elections until pushed to the wall by the Supreme Court. Even after that the so called champions of democracy, the PPP, have not transferred power to the Karachi Council.

I do agree that democracy in Pakistan needs to be tweaked.

On second thought, the problem may lies in the people itself. May be most of my countrymen like to be dictated and therefore they elect autocratic leaders regardless of their dishonesty and lack of integrity.

Yes yes. ..The best solution is for the pakistan Army to step in and save the people from themselves. Do you think it will happen soon ?

I agree to an extent. Democracy works best when the population is educated and politically active. This is not the case for Pakistan. People keep on voting for the same corrupt politicians even when mountains of evidence is for everyone to see. Copying a system that works in some other country won't do. We must carve out our own system that works for us.

Yes, exactly. And the best people to do that is the pakistani army. You must support the army for a coup and install a glorious army dictator.

 

[VCheng]

On second thought, the problem lies with the people themselves. May be most of my countrymen like to be dictated and therefore they elect autocratic leaders regardless of their dishonesty and lack of integrity.

"People get the government they deserve." - de Toqueville.

 

[Luffy 500]

Democrazy is indeed a flawed system and IMO absolutely anti-islamic. There are no confusion here if one talks about the original meaning of democrazy (which is rule of the people & sovereignty lies with the people AKA absolute kufr).Under a democrazy you actually have to give absolute individual freedom (liberalism) to the people and lawmakers would have the power to adopt and reject laws. This is absolutely kufr and anti-islamic. BUT lets NOT confuse democrazy with electocracy (people just electing leaders ). Democracy is NOT just elections but carries a lot of western secular ideological baggage and that's why even Pakistan , Turkey , Tunisia are rated as semi-autocratic by the western think tanks , because for them you are NOT truly democratic unless you accept liberal ideas about society , trade , governance and embrace individualism and ditch Islam. Infact they pointed it out to the MB after arab spring that - "don't think democracy is just elections and we accept something more" .Given the current international circumstances (nations states , no monarchy , diverse polity etc etc ) , electrocracy is however , something neutral and can be looked into by the muslim world IMO.

Now the problem starts - the model of elections. Pakistan follows the first pass the post system AKA tyranny of the majority system. Here some one with 20% votes takes the whole constituency based on plurality of votes and this results in parties having mere 30% votes ruling over rest 70% for 5 years. You PML-N actually won 32 % of the votes but ended up with 50% seats and before your PPP won 30% votes but ended up with majority seats. There is NO fair proportionality here and this gives rise to political instability in developing countries. PAK is not UK and should NOT be. Infact its only UK , and US and India that follow this flawed electoral system. Super popular 56 chest Modi has actually won 31% of the national votes while unpopular congress won 20% but look at the difference in their seats - BJP won 250 + more seats than congress.

Most western developed countries follow some form of proportional representation system where parties roughly get seats proportional to their votes :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proportional_representation

Tunisia , Turkey and Indonesia also follow this sytem. Nepal and SL just endorsed it as well.

NO comptemporary political parties enjoy 50% + support in reality except..............wait for it ............Turkey's AKP. This party is an anomaly in global electoral politics IMO and indeed is genuinely popular. NO western or eastern leader come close to erdogan's popularity. Erdogan has maintained 50% + support over 15 years via a proportional representation system. If Erdogan contested under UK/pakistani/Indian model he would have maintained a 3/4 majority in parliament for 15 years.

So pakistanis should think about this electoral reform to bring stability and accountability to their system. The best about this model is that it forces power sharing via coalitions since its very hard for a single party to gain absolute majority. It also reduces effects of possible rigging. I think your Imran khan would have less to comlpain about in such a system and can even get a shot at PM seat with help of smaller parties while your nawaz sharif won't get away with unchecked majority everytime . Also it may enhance legitimacy of civilian gov and army would have less chance or inclination to intervene.

P.S - another amusing fact : Awami league at the zenith of its popularity won 39% of votes in 1970 election but ended up with 160 of the 162 seats. Imagine that 60% did NOT vote the AL.. Official turnout was 62%. This 39% (all in E.Pakistan) actually dictated politics of 1971.

@litman @Apprentice @war&peace @dsr478 @Psychic @That Guy @Horus

Btw personally I am absolutely against the concept of democracy which is absolute kufr for the reasons I mentioned above. But I distinguish between democracy and electocracy.

 

[coffee_cup]

pakistan needs more such intelligent people like you. I encourage you to instigate the army for a coup and again bring back the glory of an Army dictatorship in pakistan. All the best and may your dream come true.

Who the hell said that I advocate army dictatorship?

I just said any mixed technocrat set-up with less corruption and stable govt will do.

Read first before commenting.

 

[Cyberian]

Bloody traitor.

 

[jupiter2007]

Even though i hate Musharraf for giving NRO to the most corrupt politicians in Pakistan, but at the same time agree with him about the current government system and these corrupt and incompetent politicians.
Musharraf should stay away from Politics. If he love and has concerned for Pakistan, he should write books, give lecture and become a political advisor and nothing more than that.

 

[Arbiter]

Yes yes. ..The best solution is for the pakistan Army to step in and save the people from themselves. Do you think it will happen soon ?



Yes, exactly. And the best people to do that is the pakistani army. You must support the army for a coup and install a glorious army dictator.

Army dictatorship is not the solution. The army especially under Raheel Sharif is very popular but people won’t accept dictatorship anymore, people of Pakistan have gone beyond that now. But the current system as it stands needs to be improved. Maybe the power needs to be shared between the elected government and the military or maybe the judiciary needs to be made more powerful, who knows.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

Mushy had a great opportunity when he came into power to clean our system but he failed miserably.

 

[HPCEO]

Who the hell said that I advocate army dictatorship?

I just said any mixed technocrat set-up with less corruption and stable govt will do.

Read first before commenting.

The pakistan Army is the best person to provide that for you. Army dictatorship is the best way forward. They will mix technocrat when required, but the army is so smart that they do not need technocrats or anyone.

Army dictatorship is not the solution. The army especially under Raheel Sharif is very popular but people won’t accept dictatorship anymore, people of Pakistan have gone beyond that now. But the current system as it stands needs to be improved. Maybe the power needs to be shared between the elected government and the military or maybe the judiciary needs to be made more powerful, who knows.

pakistani people will dance in the street and thank god whenever the army takes power. So clearly that is the perfect solution for pakistan.

pakistan army will correct everything and all you need to do is support another pakistani army coup and power grab. Nothing will please me more.

Mushy had a great opportunity when he came into power to clean our system but he failed miserably.

Don't worry, new army dictator will soon come to power and make you wish come true.

 

[WaLeEdK2]

The only reason I don't completely dislike Musharraf is because the economy grew significantly under his rule.

 

[cloud4000]

Agreed. Especially if it is an imposed democracy.

Imposed democracy? Imposed by whom?

Its OK, but I have one question. In democracy you change the leader PM/Pres by voting in/out, but how do you change the top General??

Or it will be like "Tu uth main Baithunga"!!

Well, in the case of Musharraf, protests by an unruly mob, in this case a bunch of lawyers. All military rulers in Pakistan overstay their welcome and are soon thrown out. Civilians are brought in and they overstay their welcome. Then military is brought in again. The vicious cycle continues. So far Pakistan has broken that cycle.

I agree.

Unless there is at least 90% education rate in Pakistan, there should be a technocratic set-up with a stable govt. Any decent govt with less corruption will do fine.

"Democracy" only after that level of education has been achieved among masses!

India would welcome clarity from Pakistan. Don't know who's in charge over there: the civilians or the military. To be honest, India always had good relations with Pakistan's military rulers.

 

[HPCEO]

India would welcome clarity from Pakistan. Don't know who's in charge over there: the civilians or the military. To be honest, India always had good relations with Pakistan's military rulers.

Rubbish. The pakistani military rulers are ALWAYS in power so there is no confusion in India. Are you confused ?

 

[Taimoor Khan]

Don't worry, new army dictator will soon come to power and make you wish come true.

India is actually helping us to identify the filth among us. Thank you for your unintended help.