Delhi’s Aurangzeb Road Renamed After Dr. A.P.J. Abdul Kalam

[Levina]

@levina @magudi @Juggernautjatt @jbgt90 @The_Showstopper @rubyjackass @Razia Sultana - how should his callous post be replied to??

Dont mind but what is wrong with his post???
He seems to dislike Gajendra singh and appears to be someone who respects the soldiers.

 

[Post Colonnial]

Who is gajendra singh? A nobody in the grand scheme of things

His only claim to fame is commiting suicide on live television.

Had it been someone like Capt Vikram Batra or Major Unnikrishnan or Tukaram Ombole we wont have any objections as they gave their life for the nation

In the scheme of things, however grand, Gajendra Singh is every bit as important as the great soldiers you refer to.

The drama and politics surrounding his suicide should not be allowed to take away from the underlying issue he represents which is that a succession of Indian governments for decades have let ferment a serious problem of hundreds of farmers committing suicide, because very solvable issues have not been addressed.

I am generally a capitalist and free-market person but do believe in the role of interventionist economic and social policy for progress. I was appalled to read the recent Frontline analysis of the suicides - a majority could be avoided by straight forward credit facility management and few simple such steps, for example:

1) sugar cane farmers have no say in when their crop is harvested. They are paid by the mills on weight of harvest. When harvested late the crop dries to half its original, halving the farmer's revenue...making it impossible for him to recover cost

2) Once harvested, the mills do not pay the farmer for months, in some cases over 6 months! The mill's view is that since sugar prices are internationally market driven, they will only sell their products when profitable and can pay the farmer only when they realize cash!

3) The farmer is borrowing - hawking, selling, pawning whatever he can meanwhile to to eat, to buy seeds for the next season, for paying school fees, for conducting wedding ceremony - all these borrowings are 'hand loans' with interest rates ranging 24% to 48% per annum!

Most farmers have 1 to five acres. They cannot afford accountants and credit/finance managers.

Tell me, do ANY of these problems seem unsolvable for a country like India that has the resources, the systems and the brain power to do so?

IT IS SHEER ATROCIOUS UNCONSCIONABLE SELFISHNESS AND NEGLECT. WE MUST FIX THIS NOW. IT IS FIXABLE NOW.

So yeah, Gajendra Singh is important. Modi's millions of bank account openings was not a gimmick. That is a starting point for fixing the mini and micro credit issues. But the momentum should not be allowed to slow down. Educated people like you MUST understand the reasoning and explain it to all at every occasion. We will not prosper if the farmer curses us.

@@levina @@magudi @@Juggernautjatt @@jbgt90 @@The_Showstopper @@rubyjackass @@Razia Sultana @magudi @Soumitra

 

[ayesha.a]

Your country ..... your names. You can name something for Osama Bin Laden for example, rename Abbotabad in his name.

The dragon from China gave you a negative for this? Funny thing is that it has already happened - the Lal masjid madrassah in the capital Islamabad, already has a library named after their hero, OBL. I would be really surprised if that's the only instance.

I think @Chinese-Dragon beleives that suppressing factual statements negates the facts themselves.

 

[jamahir]

Dont mind but what is wrong with his post???
He seems to dislike Gajendra singh and appears to be someone who respects the soldiers.

farmer gajendra singh was/is among the millions let down by the indian establishment and general society over 68 years... how can any sensitive person not be moved by even the still image of that farmer raging-ranting from that tree in delhi?? my tears for that man supercede soumitra's false national pride a million times.

it is a matter of shame that soumitra absolutely ignored the fact of india being declared "suicide capital of the world" last year by the uno-who... this is the same uno which was celebrated by soumitra when "yoga day" was declared as a international day.

suicide is haraam for the reason that unless three 40-foot anaconda snakes have surrounded your house and you see no way out except killing yourself, there should be no reason to take your own life... if you do so, you are the victim and your society is to blame, for it has reactionary and regressive social/political/economic foundation.

you do not know this but there is a suicide mania among the farmers of karnataka presently... this is not acceptable to me as a socialist and sensitive and progressive human.

gajendra singh died because he was the citizen of a country whose establishment and a big population seems not to want progressive society... manoj and babli died for the same reason.

this is 2015 and not 500 bc where soumitra's argument will have generally gone unchallenged... no, even then buddha challenged soumitra.

i would dearly want the indian military to effect a coup d'etat and bring in a socialistic society... napoleon did it, lenin did it, gaddafi did it, the afghans did it and by the 40 heavens, it should happen here !!

 

[ayesha.a]

And why do you think it is a good idea to talk like this, on a PAKISTANI forum?

Or even on any forum?

Talk like what? Passionately? Don't patronize me on manners, because I for sure have not said anything indecent or made any personal attacks. I can see that you are trying to please your hosts after they gave you a title, but don't make me a pawn in that duty of yours. Not even Pakistanis have found anything I said objectionable, even if they may disagree with the content of my posts.

I am confident that I have not stepped outside common decency, and that Ihave not violated any rules. If you think I have, report me to the mods; because I do not care one whit for your sanctimonious lectures.

 

[Post Colonnial]

@levina @magudi @Juggernautjatt @jbgt90 @The_Showstopper @rubyjackass @Razia Sultana - how should his callous post be replied to??

jamahir, I think many people in India, especially in cities, have been too busy with their day to day problems and have not really looked into what Gajendra Singh actually represents. It is CRITICAL that the underling factors are disseminated. The web is an ideal medium to reach the city folks.

The solution is not coup. It may sound radical but it only makes the problems worse - China is a direct example of that (no offense to Chinese, just that we need to learn from history).

The issue is making city people pay attention and understand what is happening, how serious it is and how easy it is to fix it.

 

[magudi]

@levina @magudi @Juggernautjatt @jbgt90 @The_Showstopper @rubyjackass @Razia Sultana - how should his callous post be replied to??

Checked his post history - better not to waste time having rational arguments with deaf sanghis they're delusional beyond reproach

 

[ayesha.a]

Rather to respect basic human decency and to show courtesy to your hosts on this forum.

But then I expected too much.

Using the rape of someone's ancestors in order to score a political point on a forum, that is really low.

Rape is not something used for a joke or to score political points.

OK, for once I have to make a personal remark, as much as I hate doing so. It seems that you have very low reading comprehension skills, if you thought I was jesting about rapes or trying to score points.

Really, is that what you gathered, from my post? ThatI was saying "ha ha ha, your ancestors got raped!"? BTW it is not just his ancestors, but the ancestors of many Indians too who were raped and massacred. It is a simple, undeniable, factual statement. It was definitely not made in jest - if anything, I was passionately serious.

Anyway, my sincere advice to you is to step away from this thread, because you are really making a fool of yourself. Maybe you are having a bad day, haven't slept enough etc. Read the thread again after a day or two, and try to make sense of what people are saying.

That is, assuming that you were sincerely mistaken in understanding these posts, and not merely trying to be sycophantic towards your lords.

 

[jamahir]

jamahir, I think many people in India, especially in cities, have been too busy with their day to day problems and have not really looked into what Gajendra Singh actually represents.

true... you know, i was mocked by many indian members here because i said that i had almost set up a employees union in a services/software company i worked in until june last year... these members laughed at me because i was talking of justice for my co-workers, within this company immediately and over time in the wider services/software sector ( there is no employees union in this new sector )... perhaps twenty years of "may day" have passed by without this neo sector have means of justice for the worker.

what then is the basis of dialogue with such people??

It is CRITICAL that the underling factors are disseminated. The web is an ideal medium to reach the city folks.

i agree with the general principle of your point, but i have been on pdf for slightly more than a year and see that these city folk with 2 mbps connections are not really utilizing this international forum to discuss internal problems and finding solutions from internally or externally.

while india's social/economic structure does not lend to allowing people to have time to think of others in a deeper way, it is also the responsibility of those who have been through supposedly "world education" to not dedicate their life to jobs and phds but to have the heart to unashamedly cry when yet another injustice happens and then wipe the tears and talk with others over tea to talk of solutions... fair, yes??

The solution is not coup. It may sound radical but it only makes the problems worse - China is a direct example of that (no offense to Chinese, just that we need to learn from history).

1. i did not understand your point about china.

2. coups need not always be violent, if that is your fear.

Funny thing is that it has already happened - the Lal masjid madrassah in the capital Islamabad, already has a library named after their hero, OBL. I would be really surprised if that's the only instance.

but musharraf had sent pakistan army to raid the same lal masjid... will you ignore that??

 

[ayesha.a]

@ayesha.a How Hindus survived as an overwhelming majority at the end of this very long Muslim rule in India if there were systemic forced conversion and killing of Hindus? I am not denying there would be some forced conversion and some crimes against humanity which all rulers in past did for political power as aurangzeb even killed her own blood relatives and so did ashoka but dont buy all BS you hear from Hinduvata

I haven't said anything about forced conversions, my posts have only been about the historically undeniable fact that invading armies from Central Asia (Timur, Ghazni, Ghauri, Nadir Shah etc) did commit mass murders and mass rapes and plundering and marauding to your ancestors and mine. You can read about those in their own official records. Some of them (Timur, for one) have sent back detailed reports, boasting about his men's exploits of rape and murder and mayhem. (A famous boast of his was about building a pyramid of 80,000 human skulls on his way from Lahore to Delhi.)

None of that was for conversions, those were just routine activities for invaders in those days. (And even today, in some places.)

Now about your question of forced conversions, it is again historically true that there was a lot of that happening in those days. Not from all Mughal rulers, but some of them - the most notorious being Aurangzeb. That's not just a "Sanghi" narrative, it is recorded history. (And that too fairly recent history, relative to the timeless history of the subcontinent.)

Your question is not really logically sound - that if there were forced conversions, why the majority are still hindus. For one, the mughals didn't rule all-powerful in the entire subcontinent all the time. India had several rulers, mostly hindus. (Rajputs, Marathas, southern kingdoms, etc.) And forced conversions too can only succeed to an extent - the other sides will resist, and they did resist. It's always a conflict between many power centers, not a one dimensional story of a bad ruler converting everybody with force.

Long story short, the history of conversions is complex and complicated. There were lots of forced and lots of voluntary conversions, much as muslims and hindus today like to deny either one of those aspects.

 

[Parul]

Checked his post history - better not to waste time having rational arguments with deaf sanghis they're delusional beyond reproach

You Pesudo Secular - he was stoge of AK-49 and his political stunt went wrong and paid the price with his life. You people should hail this decision of naming the Road after Dr. Kalam, but playing petty Politics over it.

Have shame and courage to speak against his murder - AK-49 and hail Sri Sri Namo Namo Narender Modi for Historic decision.

 

[MilSpec]

I am quite neutral on this. I am not a big fan of renaming things but I can definitely see why some people would not want to remove Aurangzeb's name.

I wonder what our dear miyan orangzaib thinks about this.

@Viper0011. Janab, aapka kya khayal hai?

lol

 

[Donatello]

What a stupid move.

Instead of re-naming your 'most expensive' and probably the least travelled road/real estate street........re-name one of your busiest roads or important ones.

I mean, how many people in India can go to that road and admire who APJ Kalam was? How many will get to see his name?

 

[Parul]

What a stupid move.

Instead of re-naming your 'most expensive' and probably the least travelled road/real estate street........re-name one of your busiest roads or important ones.

I mean, how many people in India can go to that road and admire who APJ Kalam was? How many will get to see his name?

Lakhs of commuters pass from the Road daily and it's in Heart of Delhi. The Property in area is expensive to buy which dosent mean that average Indian can't go there.

 

[magudi]

You Pesudo Secular - he was stoge of AK-49 and his political stunt went wrong and paid the price with his life. You people should hail this decision of naming the Road after Dr. Kalam, but playing petty Politics over it.

Have shame and courage to speak against his murder - AK-49 and hail Sri Sri Namo Namo Narender Modi for Historic decision.

You pseudo nationalist ,you can keep bootlic$ing a crony capitalist jumlebazz for all i care, gajendra was there to protest against your great leader's LAND SNATCHING bill.Kejriwal just provided a platform for voiceless farmers to inform them of MODI's treachery.Why was police under you pious leader NAMO standing still when all this was happening if he really cared for farmer's life ?