Featured Delhi Muslims fear they will never see justice for religious riot atrocities

[PakistaniAtBahrain]

I am not claiming to have any knowledge of Islam and neither I am questioning your knowledge of it. I am questioning your self-certification of having superior knowledge of Islam than other followers of Islam. It is similar to how BJP is assuming self-certification on nationalism and is branding anti-national certificates to people who dissent against it. I despise both these extremes.

for the love of God, i give up. go ask the hindus, atheists, and communists about islam. no need to refer to Quran and Sunnah.

And I would always welcome you discussing Hinduism. In fact, Hinduism is very flexible and accomodates best practices from other religions and rids of those which it finds not correct in itself. So feel free to point out flaws in Hinduism and suggest improvement areas.

i have no interest in man-made religions.

 

[magra]

Because other minorities never asked for and got a separate country carved from the matrubhoomi.

That is the crux of the problem when you deal with Indian Muslims.

What's left unsaid by them to you Hindus is ... how dare you.

Tumhari aukat kya hai humse ye bulwane.

Read between the lines.

Cheers, Doc

As long as they are saying 'Jai Hind' or expressing their praise to India in some manner, lets not question their patriotism. We are just discussing their rationale in denying Vande Mataram, not doubting patriotism.

Anyway, during mass conversion people don't think through their decision and it's the family/community leaders who decide on the conversion. It's basically how it used to happen in ancient times.

Not all mass conversions are bad though. Do you think the one by Babasaheb Ambedkar and his followers was bad? A loud slap was needed on those so-called upper castes who did not want to let go of their bigotry.

 

[jamahir]

Just to understand your concern, and going by the video on Javed Akhtar, if we remove reference to 'Mata', would you be fine in chanting 'Bharat ki Jai' and 'Vande Bharat' ?

Don't you think "Hind" is better than "Bharat" because not only will Hind remove any misgivings from Muslims but also it is a much more worldly word given as it is that some Indians want India to be a "Jagad guru" ?

Conversion without the use of force or financial benefits should not be an issue.

Agreed.

I dont think anyone is paying to convert to Buddhism, so no issues with that conversion.

Well, the Yogi government does have issue with that particular conversion. Hence their allies don't include Dalit activists like Jignesh Mevani, Chandrashekhar Azad and indeed, Kancha Ilaiah.

We have a word for fatherland as well called 'Pitrubhumi' but I don't know how it would go with a slogan.

"Pitrubhumi" would go well with "Jai Hind".

And even further "Homeland" would go even well with "Jai Hind".

Keeping multiple options is kind of better so that people can pick up what they are comfortable with.

Sure, "Jai Hind" for me and "Vande Bharat" for you.

 

[padamchen]

As long as they are saying 'Jai Hind' or expressing their praise to India in some manner, lets not question their patriotism. We are just discussing their rationale in denying Vande Mataram, not doubting patriotism.

Not all mass conversions are bad though. Do you think the one by Babasaheb Ambedkar and his followers was bad? A loud slap was needed on those so-called upper castes who did not want to let go of their bigotry.

Please read up on the percentage Muslim vote for a separate nation in undivided India.

There is a reason why their patriotism cannot be taken for granted, but has to be proven by word and action.

As I said, Parsis did not get Bombay as Parsistan.

Cheers, Doc

 

[magra]

What are the Hindu thoughts and stance on reversion?

Are there specific purification rituals and prayers?

Or is it currently more seat of the pants as we go along types? Ghar Waapsi itself does not sound very ancient Vedic. More Mahasabha and Sangh.

Cheers, Doc

Hinduism is not a religion at all but a way of life. 'Hindu' word itself was given by Persians to people living on this side of Sindhu. This place had no concept of an organized religion before Muslims came along.
A person following Hindu way of life is a Hindu even if she is Muslim, Parsi, or Christian.
If you follow RSS philosophy, they say the same thing. Hence they say that all Indians are Hindu.

So, technically, there is no need of a Ghar Wapsi. Just start leading your life the same way you were, and you are a Hindu.

 

[padamchen]

Hinduism is not a religion at all but a way of life. 'Hindu' word itself was given by Persians to people living on this side of Sindhu. This place had no concept of an organized religion before Muslims came along.
A person following Hindu way of life is a Hindu even if she is Muslim, Parsi, or Christian.
If you follow RSS philosophy, they say the same thing. Hence they say that all Indians are Hindu.

So, technically, there is no need of a Ghar Wapsi. Just start leading your life the same way you were, and you are a Hindu.

Ok Sanatan Dharam then.

Let's not get into semantics.

All religions are ways of life for the pious adherents.

I never understood this way of life line.

Religion and personal faith is not a special dress that's worn only on special days when you visit someone or some place.

And you are talking about the concept of cultural nationalism here that remains limited to our soil and bloodlines of a period of hundreds a d thousands of years by residence.

A Christian German in Bremen cannot become a Hindu by living as one. Not by the strict Varana and bloodline paradigm of Vedic Hinduism at least.

No idea about pop Hinduism.

Cheers, Doc

 

[magra]

Don't you think "Hind" is better than "Bharat" because not only will Hind remove any misgivings from Muslims but also it is a much more worldly word given as it is that some Indians want India to be a "Jagad guru" ?

Well, the Yogi government does have issue with that particular conversion. Hence their allies don't include Dalit activists like Jignesh Mevani, Chandrashekhar Azad and indeed, Kancha Ilaiah.

I did not know that some people associate 'Bharat' with Hindu religion. Is it the case with you?
So are you then fine with 'Hind ki jai' and 'Vande Hind', thus removing both 'Mata' and 'Bharat'.

Yogi is an extremist and he is a blot on a secular India.

 

[KedarT]

Because other minorities never asked for and got a separate country carved from the matrubhoomi.

That is the crux of the problem when you deal with Indian Muslims.

What's left unsaid by them to you Hindus is ... how dare you.

Tumhari aukat kya hai humse ye bulwane.

Read between the lines.

Cheers, Doc

Not all Muslims are like that though. Yes, some Muslims especially the extreme religious types always have problems with something or the other and that hurts themselves as they become more and more closed.

 

[magra]

Please read up on the percentage Muslim vote for a separate nation in undivided India.

There is a reason why their patriotism cannot be taken for granted, but has to be proven by word and action.

As I said, Parsis did not get Bombay as Parsistan.

Cheers, Doc

Sikhs fought for British in 1857 to kill our 'First war of Independence', but we dont question their patriotism. In the same vein, present day Muslims should not be doubted needlessly. Also, from strategic viewpoint, it will be foolish to weaken India's unity by constantly alienating and othering a large section of our society.

 

[KedarT]

What are the Hindu thoughts and stance on reversion?

Are there specific purification rituals and prayers?

Or is it currently more seat of the pants as we go along types? Ghar Waapsi itself does not sound very ancient Vedic. More Mahasabha and Sangh.

Cheers, Doc

Hinduism is very flexible with regards to religion and yes it allows reversion and even conversion as well. You can see the example of ISKCON.

 

[padamchen]

Not all Muslims are like that though. Yes, some Muslims especially the extreme religious types always have problems with something or the other and that hurts themselves as they become more and more closed.

The aukat thing is ingrained in their psyche.

They believe themselves to be the ones who ruled you.

It's a mass hallucination of pan generational proportions.

Cheers, Doc

 

[jamahir]

As long as they are saying 'Jai Hind' or expressing their praise to India in some manner, lets not question their patriotism.

I did not know that some people associate 'Bharat' with Hindu religion. Is it the case with you?

Yes.

So are you then fine with 'Hind ki jai' and 'Vande Hind', thus removing both 'Mata' and 'Bharat'.

That would be fine indeed. 'Vande Hind' could be more an official slogan and 'Jai Hind' and 'Hind ki jai' could be used other times.

Yogi is an extremist and he is a blot on a secular India.

Glad to hear that.

 

[padamchen]

Sikhs fought for British in 1857 to kill our 'First war of Independence', but we dont question their patriotism. In the same vein, present day Muslims should not be doubted needlessly. Also, from strategic viewpoint, it will be foolish to weaken India's unity by constantly alienating and othering a large section of our society.

Accept all, take everyone along with you, but carry a big stick.

Cheers, Doc

 

[KedarT]

Not all mass conversions are bad though. Do you think the one by Babasaheb Ambedkar and his followers was bad? A loud slap was needed on those so-called upper castes who did not want to let go of their bigotry.

Not always but in most cases as I have mentioned earlier, it's a very medieval practice where people actually don't think through a lot before suddenly changing their religion with a few others. In medieval world, where superstition was prevalent those things might have occurred a lot.

 

[padamchen]

Hinduism is very flexible with regards to religion and yes it allows reversion and even conversion as well. You can see the example of ISKCON.

Iskon is Hare Rama pop Hinduism.

I live barely a klometer from their main temple.

Cheers, Doc