DEFENCE REFORM REPORT by Presidency of TÜRKİYE

[xxxKULxxx]

Also i think unity and team play is so important... So all forces and players should be in same place and system... Decisions should be made from 1 point but this point should work with common mind and common consultation with all players of the issue...

This also provides fast decisions to be made and to be applied...

Also very good for secrecy...

 

[Neptune]

FYI

We had a naval base in Albania. The personnel is withdrawn now. But the base is open for Turkish Naval Forces with full clearance.

 

[ANMDT]

FYI

We had a naval base in Albania. The personnel is withdrawn now. But the base is open for Turkish Naval Forces with full clearance.

i have heard of that base,but what is scale of it ? To tell with some words,is it enough to serve with some shores and berths for ships,with enough facilities like maintenance and some other things?
What can we deploy in there, missiles or such things are allowed ? Or just peacetime base to use for logistic support ? Even existance of that base is enough .

 

[Neptune]

i have heard of that base,but what is scale of it ? To tell with some words,is it enough to serve with some shores and berths for ships,with enough facilities like maintenance and some other things?
What can we deploy in there, missiles or such things are allowed ? Or just peacetime base to use for logistic support ? Even existance of that base is enough .

Well mate..that was 4-5 years ago. At that time DZKK was in a offensive doctrinal change. There were two ports side by side in there. We, the Turkish government have paid millions of dollars to convert these two ports into a naval station. I don't know the scale of the base but it was said that it was capable of housing 1200 Turkish officers and sailors. At current there are no surface combatants docked but it's said to be routinely used by Turkish submarines and logistic support ships. Probably closely monitored by the Greeks.

It seemed more like a forward support base to me.

Before having negotiated with the Albanian government, the country's law was permitting foreign troops to station in the country max. 500. But they've changed that law before the agreement to meet with our demands.

 

[Babur Han]

At long terms, they will order:
- A second batch for TF-2000 (3 new ships max.)
- A second LHD.
- An aircraft carrier (after 2028-2030)
The funny thing is that we are 3rd at NATO in terms of fleet size..but still we think we have a small fleet. Yes because it's not enough for a country like Turkey having 3 sides with sea and a very long coastline and stationed where every single fuvcking crisis occures.

If an Aircraft Carrier is planned and 3 more TF-2000, this could mean TN will not only Project Power to eastern mediterran only ! TN can Project Power to indian Ocean and to the straight of Gibraltar with an CSG !

 

[Neptune]

If an Aircraft Carrier is planned and 3 more TF-2000, this could mean TN will not only Project Power to eastern mediterran only ! TN can Project Power to indian Ocean and to the straight of Gibraltar with an CSG !

Of course. But as I said, those are long term plans...after 2028-2030

 

[Babur Han]

If an Aircraft Carrier is planned and 3 more TF-2000, this could mean TN will not only Project Power to eastern mediterran only ! TN can Project Power to indian Ocean and to the straight of Gibraltar with an CSG !

I ask me if the spaniards have any clue that we can harm their interests in northern Africa with the Know - How they give us for Levent Class LHD ?

The Know How from Juan Carlos LHD could boost up the Way to an Aircraft Carrier !

 

[ANMDT]

I ask me if the spaniards have any clue that we can harm their interests in northern Africa with the Know - How they give us for Levent Class LHD ?


The Know How from Juan Carlos LHD could boost up the Way to an Aircraft Carrier !

Spanish company is in hard conditions now,they had economic issues followed by fail of a project ,while they could only provide design assistance for Royal Australian Navy after failure of some tenders then attended .

Turkish engineers also have adequate qualification to design and build one LHD/LPD with a limited assistance that will be given one of the countries building LHD ,so its not a big deal ,if they doesnt provide another one will do it.

I dont think we need spanish company ,we had our own design by RMK marine, in concept phase they have worked with their own engineers, and 1-2 foreigner , for detailed design of complete systems they considered assistance from a UK based company.

About Aircraft carrier,its way more different than LHD and we cant say LHD paves the way for our future AC, 2030 is still far and concept of Aircraft carriers may shift to some other kind design with introduction of F-35 B variant ,and its performance feedbacks . Where launch and recover system takes critical point, Aircraft carrier design may turn in LHD kind designs,and this will make us easier to reach aims.beside all,Aircraft carrier escorts , a better variant of TF-2000 and other ships is needed to build up a strike group .

 

[xxxKULxxx]

I was also expecting orko_8's article on this report... Here it is...

Siyah Gri Beyaz: Savunma Reformu: Ne? Ne İçin? Nasıl?

 

[Babur Han]

About Aircraft carrier,its way more different than LHD and we cant say LHD paves the way for our future AC, 2030 is still far and concept of Aircraft carriers may shift to some other kind design with introduction of F-35 B variant ,and its performance feedbacks . Where launch and recover system takes critical point, Aircraft carrier design may turn in LHD kind designs,and this will make us easier to reach aims.beside all,Aircraft carrier escorts , a better variant of TF-2000 and other ships is needed to build up a strike group .

I read somewere that Murad Bayar mentioned that Turkey is around 2023 Capable to built an Aircraft Carrier in Class of Charles Gaulle which can carry 40 Fighter Jets ! For an LHD F-35B is ok, but for a greater one I'd rather see a naval Variant of T-FX !

 

[xxxKULxxx]

I read somewere that Murad Bayar mentioned that Turkey is around 2023 Capable to built an Aircraft Carrier in Class of Charles Gaulle which can carry 40 Fighter Jets ! For an LHD F-35B is ok, but for a greater one I'd rather see a naval Variant of T-FX !

Bro. Murad BAYAR said that currently we have capability to build an aircraft carrier...

BTW i think our first aircraft carrier will be a state of the art... Coz till that time our defene industry will improve so much with most of, maybe nearly all systems & subsytems...

 

[xenon54 out]

Bro. Murad BAYAR said that currently we have capability to build an aircraft carrier...

BTW i think our first aircraft carrier will be a state of the art... Coz till that time our defene industry will improve so much with most of, maybe nearly all systems & subsytems...

You are doing it again Kul, dont get over excited before you see something solid.

 

[ANMDT]

I read somewere that Murad Bayar mentioned that Turkey is around 2023 Capable to built an Aircraft Carrier in Class of Charles Gaulle which can carry 40 Fighter Jets ! For an LHD F-35B is ok, but for a greater one I'd rather see a naval Variant of T-FX !

I dont expect naval variant of T-FX while we are still thinking prototype of it in 2023 , they are talking optimistic but our shipyard industry isnt strong enough to build aircraft carrier, and wont be until 2023 by this on-going way. High accuracy works done in Navy Gölcük shipyard only , like submarine and else.

As i said ,concept of aircraft carriers may shift into another phase being far from conventional AC design that we see now. So we need to be ready for this, to deploy a good design of aircraft design, and working for a good one until 2023 in terms of engineering and science, to foresee how it might be with introduction Vertical take off jets and UAV , UCAVs . If we have one AC , it should be capable of expressing all abilities in her own era.
If we consider evolution of ships by seeing Zumwalt class , we can assume similar design destroyers in next 5-7 years by other nations ; same evolution will take a place in ACs in a different way ,it will be radical but navy (all of them) always avoid changes in ship design, they dont appreciate it much and criticize often. Like there are too many objections for trimaran, Swath , catamaran ships to be deployed in fleets. Eventhough researchs for them ongoing , prototypes built,and capability is proven.

But i still have hopes, Undersecretariat of Defence Industry seems to re-organize private shipyard which works for Navy ,to enhance them with better abilities for construction, capacity, Quality Control. While subsystems developments already ongoing with other projects like TF-2000 , radars, management system, and other projects which shares mutual subsystem elements with an AC.

Bro. Murad BAYAR said that currently we have capability to build an aircraft carrier...

BTW i think our first aircraft carrier will be a state of the art... Coz till that time our defene industry will improve so much with most of, maybe nearly all systems & subsytems...

Duh bro Aircraft carrier is not something easy , ok for combatants they share mutual points,so that our engineers proceeding for larger and larger one, while aircraft carrier is such a different story and concept, even china preffered to acquire one second hand ship to see what it looks like
He is talking so optimistic and probably mentioning LPD or LHD, since our people considers all vessels with a top flat ,as aircraft carriers
Lets complete milgem , and TF-2000 at 1st , then we may dream of AC

 

[xxxKULxxx]

You are doing it again Kul, dont get over excited before you see something solid.

After thing is solid then there is no need to talk either...

Till that aircraft carrier... What we did, what we do currently and what is short term programs...

We did so many co-production on naval vessels in the past... We built MİLGEM and various kind of ships... Then MİLGEM's BLOCK II & II... Then LHD/LPD... Then TF-2000... Also MİLDEN... After all of these we will have capacity to build a state of the art aircraft carrier... Come on xenon... Day by day our domestic share is increasing... Our defence companies especially ASELSAN is taking care of subsystems... What lefts ?

I'm not talking about today...

 

[ANMDT]

After thing is solid then there is no need to talk either...

Till that aircraft carrier... What we did, what we do currently and what is short term programs...

We did so many co-production on naval vessels in the past... We built MİLGEM and various kind of ships... Then MİLGEM's BLOCK II & II... Then LHD/LPD... Then TF-2000... Also MİLDEN... After all of these we will have capacity to build a state of the art aircraft carrier... Come on xenon... Day by day our domestic share is increasing... Our defence companies especially ASELSAN is taking care of subsystems... What lefts ?

I'm not talking about today...

Actually too many things left for AC , but until 2020s we will able to complete these. I wish it have been only about aselan's responsibility to fullfill needs, but unfortunately not.
Unless we design our own LHD , honestly i dont think we will capability of building aircraft carrier before than 2030s. If LHD tender is going how it is now, it will be in the same way like said in previous one.

To list what is left for AC:

1- Material for construction, now we dont have production,or ability of production special steel for AC

2- Global design of AC ,to acquire good motion chracteristics in seas , stable motions, stability , structural analysis ( vibration etc ) , at the moment, we can study on any kind of combatant,but not same for AC , we can gain this only through design of LHD ,by cooperating Universities and Engineers who design LHD

3- Propulsion system ( let this to be direct purchase )

4- Internal design for AC, what we lack at the moment, and hardest one to gain since noone would like to share it. LHD design might give a hand for this one , only by condition of our engineers designing, directly participating to design of it.

5- Training to use AC, (will take at least 3-4 years after commissioned ).

6- A shipyard which can build up a AC and steel work of it, with high accuracy, huge cranes to lift up blocks.