Defence & Diplomacy Airchief Interview 25.5.2016

[Bilal Khan 777]

There is CARE and GIDS and he may belong to one of them. World doesnt stop at organizations that you named in your post

I know care like the back of my hand. I left there name out on purpose. GIDS is a "public" sector marketing company, that sells NESCOM products. Itself GIDS is not a manufacturing company, only marketing layer of all the things we think are "indigenous"

Anyone else wants to tell me something I don't already know?

Firstly I don't think there is any speculation in it because I have spent my nights analysing it. You may accept it or reject it I am not responsible for giving you any proof.
Secondly, It is not an alien technology. A number of technologies and models of different specifications are available in the market. So there is nothing to feel better, just a routine job.

Fine, you sound very convinced yourself, and extremely convincing to the rest of the forum.

 

[SQ8]

I know care like the back of my hand. I left there name out on purpose. GIDS is a "public" sector marketing company, that sells NESCOM products. Itself GIDS is not a manufacturing company, only marketing layer of all the things we think are "indigenous"

Anyone else wants to tell me something I don't already know?



Fine, you sound very convinced yourself, and extremely convincing to the rest of the forum.

The earlier indigenous efforts were with ID aerospace with the gentleman in charge( who despite his aeronautics background ended up designing certain unflyable contraptions that littered the disused WWII strip north of Karachi) operating out of the basement in DHA phase V under the basement of a KFC. Although reportedly the gentleman also made income via importing key spares for the vipers such as the RLG from the Israelis via Jordan.

Satuma might be taken as the other area.. although not sure of their success.

Indigenous projects is a term lest used by us, we prefer stuff that works. Be it painting the Nodong and calling it the Ghauri.. meeting up with various arms dealers and disaffected eastern european/asian or Russian scientists in Dubai.

One saving grace is that the very same drawing rooms where our teams would wait to meet their supplier would also hold the Indians waiting to meet theirs in those days of the 90's. They can copy and paste as many research papers and photos of garlanded folks doing their stuff.. but the reality on indigenous products in India is not quite homemade.

 

[JamD]

The earlier indigenous efforts were with ID aerospace with the gentleman in charge( who despite his aeronautics background ended up designing certain unflyable contraptions that littered the disused WWII strip north of Karachi) operating out of the basement in DHA phase V under the basement of a KFC. Although reportedly the gentleman also made income via importing key spares for the vipers such as the RLG from the Israelis via Jordan.

Integrated Dynamics? A colleague of mine used to work there and she had nothing but bad things to say about that place. The guy apparently had anger issues but this is hearsay. On an unrelated note another colleague of mine was offered a job at ID for 10k per month, he obviously declined and eventually joined AWC. A year ago I saw an ad by ID offering training (for which you pay) after which they MIGHT hire you. All this leads me to believe this place isn't doing well at all.

 

[باپ]

Integrated Dynamics? A colleague of mine used to work there and she had nothing but bad things to say about that place. The guy apparently had anger issues but this is hearsay. On an unrelated note another colleague of mine was offered a job at ID for 10k per month, he obviously declined and eventually joined AWC. A year ago I saw an ad by ID offering training (for which you pay) after which they MIGHT hire you. All this leads me to believe this place isn't doing well at all.

Pakistani armed forces are still obsessed with American and European stuff and not much is bought from those small Pakistani companies. That is a big issue.

Any corporate has similar problems of annoying bosses and employees not happy with the wages they get for the work they do.. For example i know people who work for MBDA and Airbus,none of them have anything good to say about their workplace either.

 

[SQ8]

Integrated Dynamics? A colleague of mine used to work there and she had nothing but bad things to say about that place. The guy apparently had anger issues but this is hearsay. On an unrelated note another colleague of mine was offered a job at ID for 10k per month, he obviously declined and eventually joined AWC. A year ago I saw an ad by ID offering training (for which you pay) after which they MIGHT hire you. All this leads me to believe this place isn't doing well at all.

He also had design issues. Used to come up with contraptions that were supposed to fly that even the pilots refused to just by looking at it. Lots of plywood and fiberglass can be found in certain areas north of Karachi

 

[aliyusuf]

Just curious, what is AERO doing these days? Haven't they successfully delivered some useful subsystems in the past?

 

[Dazzler]

Just curious, what is AERO doing these days? Haven't they successfully delivered some useful subsystems in the past?

Improving and standardizing indigenous datalink, making air defense automation, bombs, fuzes, CFD, many sensors for the PAF fleet including the jf-17 etc etc...

 

[thrilainmanila]

i'm sure this ACM knows more then most of us but there is something i find frustrating, the constant talk about F-16s and how special the US relationship is, he sounds like he's out of sync with current issues, he sounds like he thinks the relationship is the same as it was 32 years ago, he doesnt view the rafale deal as a threat and states that the JF-17 is enough, is there something he knows about the JF-17 that we don't know? he honestly is an old man who needs to retire as ACM, PAF needs a fresh younger ACM whos willing to take risks, the recent ACM have always played it safe, they've allowed the technology gap to widen to the point were they are content that substandard systems will beat back massive technology advantage in greater numbers by the enemy, because of the ''special training'' PAF pilots receive, its beyond baffling.The only way they'll come to realize there mistake is in an event of a war, and even after the embarrassment they'll quickly forget about what happened and go back to there docile way of thinking.

 

[Quwa]

i'm sure this ACM knows more then most of us but there is something i find frustrating, the constant talk about F-16s and how special the US relationship is, he sounds like he's out of sync with current issues, he sounds like he thinks the relationship is the same as it was 32 years ago, he doesnt view the rafale deal as a threat and states that the JF-17 is enough, is there something he knows about the JF-17 that we don't know? he honestly is an old man who needs to retire as ACM, PAF needs a fresh younger ACM whos willing to take risks, the recent ACM have always played it safe, they've allowed the technology gap to widen to the point were they are content that substandard systems will beat back massive technology advantage in greater numbers by the enemy, because of the ''special training'' PAF pilots receive, its beyond baffling.The only way they'll come to realize there mistake is in an event of a war, and even after the embarrassment they'll quickly forget about what happened and go back to there docile way of thinking.

He's not an elected politician, he can't go around defining new policy without it being a policy of the government.

 

[MastanKhan]

i'm sure this ACM knows more then most of us but there is something i find frustrating, the constant talk about F-16s and how special the US relationship is, he sounds like he's out of sync with current issues, he sounds like he thinks the relationship is the same as it was 32 years ago, he doesnt view the rafale deal as a threat and states that the JF-17 is enough, is there something he knows about the JF-17 that we don't know? he honestly is an old man who needs to retire as ACM, PAF needs a fresh younger ACM whos willing to take risks, the recent ACM have always played it safe, they've allowed the technology gap to widen to the point were they are content that substandard systems will beat back massive technology advantage in greater numbers by the enemy, because of the ''special training'' PAF pilots receive, its beyond baffling.The only way they'll come to realize there mistake is in an event of a war, and even after the embarrassment they'll quickly forget about what happened and go back to there docile way of thinking.

Hi,

Their problem is the dellusions of grandeur they live under. Nobody has held their feet to the fire in the last 50 + years.

Until and unless that is not done---the problem won't be fixed.

Look at the interviewer----if he could kiss the ACM's ar-se on the TV---he would have done that.

I would take away the JF17 project from active duty air force and give it to retd air force personal and with pilots on deputation to the JF17 project.

This air force is becoming ' car dealership ' and the air force generals are becoming ' car salesmen '.

The reasonthey are not getting a potent system---is that then they may have to fight a war---so as long as the Paf keeps weak---pak military will stay away from war----air force personal will have jobs secured after retirement----.

It is the greatest CON GAME that the air force has played on pakistan and sold the pakistanis lock stock and barrel.

 

[thrilainmanila]

Hi,

Their problem is the dellusions of grandeur they live under. Nobody has held their feet to the fire in the last 50 + years.

Until and unless that is not done---the problem won't be fixed.

Look at the interviewer----if he could kiss the ACM's ar-se on the TV---he would have done that.

I would take away the JF17 project from active duty air force and give it to retd air force personal and with pilots on deputation to the JF17 project.

This air force is becoming ' car dealership ' and the air force generals are becoming ' car salesmen '.

The reasonthey are not getting a potent system---is that then they may have to fight a war---so as long as the Paf keeps weak---pak military will stay away from war----air force personal will have jobs secured after retirement----.

It is the greatest CON GAME that the air force has played on pakistan and sold the pakistanis lock stock and barrel.

your right it doesn't make sense for an airforce to aggressively market a fighter plane in international airshows when was the last time the USAF did this its companies like lockheed, McDonnel Douglas, Grumman, boeing that do all this, does the leadership of the USAF actively promote the F-35 to the rest of the world, the PAF are aware of it and know that they'll get a nice piece of a pie, this bullshit ACM was talking about with regards to making an aviation city was a farce too. even the israelis never mastered this they made the lavi and later scrapped it since then they've only specialized in avionics. even european countries with decades of experience like italy never designed a fighter jet independently. The chinese have taken decades to master jet engine technology, yet pakistan will achieve this feet?

 

[MastanKhan]

your right it doesn't make sense for an airforce to aggressively market a fighter plane in international airshows when was the last time the USAF did this its companies like lockheed, McDonnel Douglas, Grumman, boeing that do all this, does the leadership of the USAF actively promote the F-35 to the rest of the world, the PAF are aware of it and know that they'll get a nice piece of a pie, this bullshit ACM was talking about with regards to making an aviation city was a farce too. even the israelis never mastered this they made the lavi and later scrapped it since then they've only specialized in avionics. even european countries with decades of experience like italy never designed a fighter jet independently. The chinese have taken decades to master jet engine technology, yet pakistan will achieve this feet?

Hi,

As I stated---the paf heirarchy is a total CON GAME----defence of pakistan and offence is not a priority---selling aircraft is.

It is the worst thing that can happen to an air force----when instead of fighting---it becomes more interested in selling its goods.

 

[volatile]

Look at the interviewer----if he could kiss the ACM's ar-se on the TV---he would have done that.

Well said

It is the worst thing that can happen to an air force----when instead of fighting---it becomes more interested in selling its goods.

No Air force is doing this ,You need professional people Govern with Foreign policies to sell equipment.F16 comes almost free why it plays a pivotal part in US foreign policy when i say free PAF was saving the funds from FMSF for the last three years which was around 80 Mil a year ,rest was again subsidized .

 

[ghazi768]

The key word I think is 'indigenous' which actually should be interpreted as 'indigenizing'. And the key issue is that presently we do not have the capabilities to fully 'absorb' different technologies whether in terms or human resources or in terms of existing industrial base. This I think is what they are trying to tackle.

Personally I hope and pray they are successful on the plans they are thinking about, working on.

I think that PAF talking about looking beyond fifth generation gives most guys, who are more used to reading about marketing buzz about 'generation' thingy, wrong ideas and a state of disbelief. PAF should try to be a bit forthcoming about its 'unconventional' ideas and evolving doctrine. It will result in lot of howling but I think it will be better.

For example, after all why do you need a big god damned radar with all pernaphalia in a fighter with all its usual cons when 80%+ BVR shots have always been fired in VWR or near it. Why not have a few which can throw out a lot of power, track lots and lots more, while indigenise a missile and put a good booster on it. While keeping most of your fighters small, nimble and becoming capable of throwing lots of surprises if lower RCS for your fighters can be thrown in this mix than more the merrier.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

The purchase of the Gripen aircraft was not finalized because the paf stated it has too much technology for us to absorb---this was the statement of the air chief some 11-13 + years ago.

Not knowing any better---most of us believed in what he said. Now as we look back---we know that he LIED to the country. The Gripen was no more advanced that the Jf17 BLK 2 that we have.

Those days of primary BVR shots being fired within wvr are long gone----. That happened maybe during the 2nd gulf war---but since then those pilots have gone thru extensive indoctrination and new training after 2003-04---.

Majority of them were apprehensive about the BVR shooting and then scooting---but in the end---they all followed the company line.

The thing is that once the 'mega minds' in the U S military decide how to bring change to combat---that is how it is going to be in the end---and naysayers will be weeded out.

I would like the reader to think---the west is spending money---like never seen before on these expensive aircraft to make them the best of the best---then they have top notch electronics for these aircraft----and then they have spent millions and millions in manufacturing extremely potent BVR missiles----.

And all this to give them advantage over the enemy from a distance 100% of the time----so then what makes the pakistani superstars think that they would want to lose that advantage and come wvr to make the BETS even or less in favor.