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Def.pk op-ed: Mutual Blackmail, ETO for Afg, Pak and Ind

This is the main advantage being argued - but in order to gauge the tangible economic gains for Pakistan from normalization of trade with India and access to her markets, can we look at some existing templates?

For example, how has 'normalized trade and access to Indian markets' affected the economies of Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Nepal, Iran etc.? Specifically, what are the bilateral trade numbers and what sorts of industries in these nations have boomed from 'normalized trade with India'?

In the case of Iran, what advantages has the Iranian economy and industry gained, outside of the export of fossil fuels?

Excellent point, but wrong examples.

It would be WRONG for Pakistan to follow the example you mention in the manner that has been played out in those countries.

The reason I argue for a US role is precisely to prevent India from muscling in and riding roughshod over Pakistan's interests, something that it would love to do dearly. Pakistan should work with USA to ensure that its interests are taken care of in a well-matched increase in trade, under a well-negotiated and properly underwritten economic arrangement.
 
South Asia
Nov 4, 2011




US's post-2014 Afghan agenda falters

By M K Bhadrakumar

There couldn't have been a more appropriate venue than the old Byzantine capital on the Bosphorus to hold a regional conference on Afghanistan at the present juncture. The conference at Istanbul on Thursday carried an impressive title - "Security and Cooperation in the Heart of Asia". The "heart" had 14 chambers - Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran, China, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Kazakhstan, Russia, India, Turkey, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates.

The conference was packed with high drama, which was unsurprising, since its "brain" - the United States - acted almost imperviously to the beatings of the heart.

Intrigue and counter-intrigue dogged the conference from the


outset to such an extent that its eventual failure was a forgone conclusion.

The US and its Western allies began with high hopes that North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) partner Turkey would secure from the conference a declaration - preferably signed by the "14 heartland" states - that would prepare the ground for establishing a regional security and integration mechanism on the pattern of the Organization of Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE). In turn, this declaration would take wing at the forthcoming Bonn II conference in December (to which Germany has invited 90 countries and 15 international organizations).

In the event, Thursday ended on a somewhat miserable note in Istanbul, the heart of Asia having suffered even a minor rupture. Uzbekistan broke loose and stayed away at the last minute, with the remaining 13 countries finally settling for an anodyne joint statement that will become the latest in a series of platitudes and good intentions since the US invaded Afghanistan.

Bound to crash-land
The conference agenda was lop-sided in the first instance. Instead of focusing on the pivotal issue of a viable Afghan national reconciliation, how to set up such a process and how to secure it as "Afghan-led" and genuinely "Afghan-owned", the masterminds of the conference - the United States in particular - loaded it with geopolitics.


The conference was burdened with an ambitious agenda of imposing on the region under Western leadership a mechanism to mediate in a host of intra-regional disputes and differences which are, arguably, tangential issues that could have a bearing on Afghanistan's stabilization but are not the greatest concern today.
This was, to put mildly, like putting the cart before the horse. The Western masterminds needlessly introduced a controversial template for a new security architecture for Central and South Asia, complete with an institutional mechanism and a "contact group" for monitoring the implementation of a matrix of "confidence-building measures".

This was an idea that was bound to crash-land, given the deep suspicions about the US's intentions in the "war on terror" in Afghanistan and the unwillingness of the regional states to accept the permanent habitation of the West as the arbiter-cum-moderator-cum-mediator in their region.

During the preparatory stages at official meetings in Oslo, Norway and Kabul through September and October, it became evident that there were no takers in the region for a new regional security organization presided over by the West. Russia, China, Iran, Pakistan and most of the Central Asian countries demurred on the US proposal for a new regional security architecture. India, which resents outside mediation on its disputes, kept quiet so as not to offend the US, while probably remaining confident that Pakistan would do its job anyway.

Moscow came up with its own counterproposal in the shape of a statement of principles of regional cooperation listing political, economic and other measures to build confidence and encourage cooperation among the countries neighboring Afghanistan. The Russian approach found favor with China, Pakistan and Iran, and being unexceptional in any case, it gained traction and ultimately seems to have paved the way for Thursday's joint statement at Istanbul.

However, Washington (and Ankara) continued efforts until the last minute to somehow institutionalize a regional process through "working groups" and a "structured" form of consultations. But Pakistan would appear to have put its foot firmly down on these ideas, pointing out that an OSCE-type security related conference or a full-fledged security apparatus would be completely unacceptable since there was a world of difference between the Cold-War compulsions which initiated the Helsinki process and the prevailing Afghan situation.

Pakistan's contention is that Afghanistan's neighboring countries could at best have a supportive role in ensuring the peace, security and territorial integrity of that country and instead of proposing new mechanisms, the focus should be on implementation of the existing mechanisms for peace, security and development.

The US game plan served four objectives. One, Washington hoped to "shackle" Pakistan within the four walls of a regional security mechanism dominated by the West so that it becomes one protagonist among equals and its claim to an eminent status in any Afghan peace process gets diluted.

Two, the regional mechanism would give the US and its allies a handle to retain the lead role in the search for an Afghan settlement and also beyond during the post 2014 period. Three, Washington estimated that the regional security apparatus would inevitably come to overshadow the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) as the number one regional security process in Central Asia and South Asia which, in turn, would erode the dominant influence of Russia and China in Central Asia.

Finally, the US envisaged the regional mechanism to provide the security underpinning for its "New Silk Road" project, which is running on a parallel track - quintessentially a modern version of its "Greater Central Asia strategy" dating back to the George W Bush presidency. The New Silk Road proposes Afghanistan as a regional hub to bring Central Asia and South Asia closer together under the garb of regional development and integration.

Its real intent, however, is to roll back the pre-eminent position of Russia and China in Central Asia and to gain direct access to the vast mineral resources of the region through communication links that bypass Russia and Iran. The US's agenda included gaining for NATO some sort of formal, institutional role in regional security in Central Asia. (Safeguarding the energy pipelines is a newfound 21st century "challenge" that NATO proposes to assume.)

Conceivably, Moscow and Beijing spotted a red herring from day one. The most significant outcome of the Istanbul Conference, therefore, might turn out to be that the SCO will hasten its decision-making process and swiftly steer through the applications of Pakistan and India for membership of that organization.

A Russian statement issued on Monday following Foreign Ministry-level political consultations with China in Moscow stated that the two countries discussed the modalities of finalization of the membership of the two South Asian countries in SCO and "spoke of expediting the process" of membership of India and Pakistan (and Afghanistan's status as an SCO "Observer"). The likelihood is that a decision in this regard might even be formalized at the SCO Heads of Governments meeting due in St Petersburg on Monday.

Note of triumphalism
Underlying all this high drama has been the realization in Washington (and the regional capitals) that the political-military situation in Afghanistan is decisively shifting in Pakistan's favor, prompting a desperate Western attempt to ensure the US and NATO's permanent military presence in the strategic Hindu Kush.

Without doubt, a dangerous period lies ahead for the US and its NATO allies with the strong possibility of Mullah Omar's forces and the Haqqani network openly collaborating with a view to intensifying the insurgent activities.

The devastating suicide car bomb attack in Kabul killing 13 American and 3 Australian soldiers may well be the harbinger of a new offensive. Its timing - on the eve of the Istanbul conference - carried a barely-disguised message to the US administration that crunch time has come and the US strategy to degrade the Taliban and force them to come to the negotiating has not only failed, but the Taliban seem more than ever convinced that they are inching toward conclusive victory.

Clearly, US secretary of state Hillary Clinton's visit to Islamabad 10 days ago has not helped reduce the huge trust deficit in the US-Pakistan relationship. The Pakistani military seems amused that Clinton made a virtue out of dire necessity by graciously "offering" to Islamabad the "primacy" to "squeeze" the Haqqanis and bring them to the negotiating table.

Whereas, the heart of the matter is that the US's covert attempts in the recent months to gain direct access to the Taliban leadership and to suo moto initiate a peace process from a position of strength lie in shambles today.

On the other hand, Pakistan's estimation is that US President Barack Obama is going to find himself more and more on the defensive as next year's election approaches, lessening even further the US's capacity to pressure Islamabad. A tone of triumphalism is appearing in the Pakistani discourses.


Indeed, the Obama administration, too, would sense that the factors of advantage are incrementally tilting in Pakistan's favor and that the US lacks any real leverage to influence the Pakistani military.
The US roped in Turkey to push the agenda of the Istanbul Conference, given its traditionally warm and friendly relations with Pakistan. The Saudi and United Arab Emirates presence in Istanbul was also expected to influence Pakistan. But the Istanbul Conference may have resulted in causing some injury to Turkish-Pakistani ties. A Turkish observer wrote:

Cold winds have started to blow between the two [Turkey and Pakistan] due to the Afghan problem ... Islamabad is quite annoyed at Turkey for its role in the conference ... Basically, Pakistan is angry at Turkey and the US, which want a result oriented conference. For the conference to bear fruit an institutionalization of the process is a must. In other words in the absence of some kind of a mechanism, to monitor the process that might include implementing confidence-building measures, everything said in Istanbul will stay on paper.

Turkish diplomacy has tried to calm down the Pakistanis, telling them that the presence of Turkey in the regional framework should alleviate the concerns of Pakistanis vis-a-vis other players. After all the Turks do not have a secret agenda of strengthening the hands of India at the expense of Pakistan but I am doubtful that they succeeded in reassuring Pakistan.

All in all, from the Russian and Chinese point of view, it becomes desirable - almost imperative - from now onward while looking ahead, that Pakistan is enabled to have strategic autonomy to withstand the US pressure. Most certainly, they would appreciate Pakistan's steadfast role in frustrating the US design to install a regional security mechanism for continued interference in the Central Asian region.


On balance, the petering out of the Istanbul Conference constitutes a grave setback for the upcoming Bonn Conference II in December. With the Istanbul Conference failing to erect an institutionalized framework of regional cooperation, Bonn Conference II lacks a viable agenda except that 2011 happens to provide a great photo-op, being the 10th anniversary of the first conference in December 2001.

The original intent was to ensure that the Taliban representatives attended the Bonn Conference. But short of a miracle, that is not going to happen. That leaves the US and its NATO allies to work out the planned transition in Afghanistan in 2014 in isolation, as they gather for the alliance's summit in May in Chicago.

In sum, the regional powers are unwilling to collaborate with the US and its allies to choreograph the post-2014 regional security scenario. Russia and China insist that the central role of the international community in Afghanistan should be of the United Nations once the US and NATO's transition is completed in 2014.

Evidently, they would hope for the SCO to take a lead role in the stabilization of Afghanistan. Afghanistan's expeditious admission as an SCO observer alongside Pakistan's induction as a full member conveys a loud message that regional security is best handled by the countries of the region, while extra-regional powers can act as facilitators. That is also the final message of the Istanbul conference.


And OP and option 1 is now in the bin as I postulated cheng
 
Here is a nice commentary on the multi-party conference on Afghanistan. Please note the text in red towards the end:

from: Afghanistan

..................................... Meanwhile the real action on regional Afghan affairs will continue elsewhere, such as in this month’s bilateral strategic deal between India and Afghanistan.

As the disagreements continue, India, Pakistan, Iran and the other troublesome neighbours will no doubt get together from time to time for polite chinwags under the auspices of what might one day become known as the Istanbul process. One diplomat cautions against being overly cynical, however. Better trying to get something—anything—off the ground, he says. “Maybe in 15 or 20 years something might come of it.”
.........................

....................................


And OP and option 1 is now in the bin as I postulated cheng

Not so fast. Read the part in RED above again if need be, please. :D
 
Not so fast. Read the part in RED above again if need be, please. :D

The article that you refer to was written prior to the article I put up. The one I put up was written with the knowledge of what occured at the regional conference. There was no support from any of the neighbouring countries and surprisingly the suggestion was that even india wasnt supportive for it but relied on pakistanis to speak for them:

India, which resents outside mediation on its disputes, kept quiet so as not to offend the US, while probably remaining confident that Pakistan would do its job anyway.


So besides americans I cant really see anyone in favour of the OP or option 1
 
The article that you refer to was written prior to the article I put up. The one I put up was written with the knowledge of what occured at the regional conference. There was no support from any of the neighbouring countries and surprisingly the suggestion was that even india wasnt supportive for it but relied on pakistanis to speak for them:

India, which resents outside mediation on its disputes, kept quiet so as not to offend the US, while probably remaining confident that Pakistan would do its job anyway.


So besides americans I cant really see anyone in favour of the OP or option 1

Nope. The article I quoted shows that the Istanbul process is a dog-and-pony show while the real action takes place elsewhere.
 
Nope. The article I quoted shows that the Istanbul process is a dog-and-pony show while the real action takes place elsewhere.

Simply mr cheng you can not use someones opinion as authority for your op or as muse put it option 1. I am relying on facts as reported. You are relying on a journalists opinion which in any event related to the fact that nothing was achieved at the american sponsered conference where they had hoped to isolate Pakistan
 
If you read my post, I never denied that India has alternatives. But they are more costly and, in a bid to be globally competitive, business will be more sensitive to their bottom line.

If Pakistan is 'just a transit country' then, by definition, it is not deriving much benefit from the trade. So why should we make life easier for India -- especially when it negatively impacts our existing ally? Let India go around the long way and pay a premium.

I like the way you are thinking. :)
 
Is this another dig at the army? If so, that's a whole different debate by itself.

No dig at anyone. The fundamental reasons I meant was the unceasing hostility to India that forces so much of the behavior.

Everything else is just a symptom.

You guys think you can take care of the symptom alone. Good luck with that.
 
My point is that those arguing that the 'potential solutions for the Kashmir dispute will get worse with time, the longer Pakistan refuses to normalize relations with India' are ignoring the fact that outside of militarily annexing the parts of J&K under Pakistani control, India cannot offer a 'worse solution' than the one it is supposedly amenable to currently.

I don't think the Musharraf-BJP solution was that bad for Pakistan. It was the best that was realistically available.

And it offered only psychological gains for both sides.

There will be no redrawing of borders. Everyone already understands that.

In terms of economic growth and development, that is the main cause, as has been argued in detail on various threads that you can go back and read through. The extremely low tax payer base, billions of dollars in losses subsidized by the tax payers in the PSE's and billions more lost through associated corruption and poor services is fact, and a huge drain on the economy. These losses have only kept growing, and until the basics of good governance are not implemented, any money saved from the defence budget will go down the drain like the rest of the resources available currently.

Those two are part of the problem and not the whole problem.

The corruption and incompetence and inefficiency are not limited to "a corrupt ruling elite" (I suppose you just mean them bloody civilians). ;)

Those who have directly controlled the country for more than half the time and not so indirectly for the rest also deserve their fair share.
 
I don't think the Musharraf-BJP solution was that bad for Pakistan. It was the best that was realistically available.

And it offered only psychological gains for both sides.

There will be no redrawing of borders. Everyone already understands that.
Sure, but that means that whether Pakistan engages with India now or fifty years later, the potential 'solution', in terms of what is acceptable to India, will be the same as it is now - 'no redrawing of borders'.

Therefore those commentators arguing that Pakistan 'needs to engage with India NOW to resolve the Kashmir Dispute, or it will get an even lesser 'deal' later' are incorrect.

Those two are part of the problem and not the whole problem.

The corruption and incompetence and inefficiency are not limited to "a corrupt ruling elite" (I suppose you just mean them bloody civilians). ;)

Those who have directly controlled the country for more than half the time and not so indirectly for the rest also deserve their fair share.
Corruption and poor governance, whether by military rulers or civilian rulers, are the MAJOR issue impacting Pakistan's progress and development. Trying to hijack this into an argument over 'bloody civilians vs military establishment' does not change that fact. Currently it is the civilians who are governing, domestically at least, so a large part of the blame goes to them. The military is not stopping them from improving governance and reducing corruption.

As pointed out already, the impact, in terms of the annual dollar amount, of the losses from just the largest PSE's, is staggering, and if invested in development projects, could make a huge impact.
 
Sure, but that means that whether Pakistan engages with India now or fifty years later, the potential 'solution', in terms of what is acceptable to India, will be the same as it is now - 'no redrawing of borders'.

Therefore those commentators arguing that Pakistan 'needs to engage with India NOW to resolve the Kashmir Dispute, or it will get an even lesser 'deal' later' are incorrect.
You are wrong mate. The solution at that point of time can definitely be worse. For example, at the moment, the draft prepared then had no redrawing of borders and some semblance of Pakistani influence of Kashmir right? In terms of self governance, etc.

What if 20 years down the line, with say zero casualties because of terrorism(the whole and sole problem India has against Pak), and a National economy growing at 9%, and State economy growing at 12%, everyone in India is 'happy happy', why would anyone want any kind of deal with Pakistan. India would basically have all it wants without compromise?

Things and solutions can definitely get worse for Pakistan.
 
Things and solutions can definitely get worse for Pakistan.

and they could be better for pakistan or worse for india who knows I dont have a chrystal ball. Back to topic the regional conference on Afghanistan was a failure as far as america and india are concerned for the purposes of proposition of op.
 
You are wrong mate. The solution at that point of time can definitely be worse. For example, at the moment, the draft prepared then had no redrawing of borders and some semblance of Pakistani influence of Kashmir right? In terms of self governance, etc.

What if 20 years down the line, with say zero casualties because of terrorism(the whole and sole problem India has against Pak), and a National economy growing at 9%, and State economy growing at 12%, everyone in India is 'happy happy', why would anyone want any kind of deal with Pakistan. India would basically have all it wants without compromise?

Things and solutions can definitely get worse for Pakistan.
India is not interested in 'redrawing borders' now, nor will it be '20 years in the future' - what tangible benefit then does 'some semblance of influence in Kashmir' offer Pakistan? What is Pakistan supposed to do with this 'some semblance of influence' being offered currently?
 
Correct me if I am wrong but it appears that the mere thought of "normalization" with India puts some people at a grave discomfort.

Probably its just a force of habit. Makes life so much easier. So much is then just "fait accompli" rather than a conscious decision.

---------- Post added at 07:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:18 PM ----------

India is not interested in 'redrawing borders' now, nor will it be '20 years in the future' - what tangible benefit then does 'some semblance of influence in Kashmir' offer Pakistan? What is Pakistan supposed to do with this 'some semblance of influence' being offered currently?

Let's flip your question.

What does the continuation of the current policy offer Pakistan?
 
India is not interested in 'redrawing borders' now, nor will it be '20 years in the future' - what tangible benefit then does 'some semblance of influence in Kashmir' offer Pakistan? What is Pakistan supposed to do with this 'some semblance of influence' being offered currently?

I dont remember the draft plan that was agreed between the two sides, but what i do remember that it had a fair amount of Pakistani influence on the State and promises by India to do this or that DESPITE no redrawing of the border. You can look it up.

See in the end the bottom line is that there will be no redrawing of borders, if that is what you are hoping for then you would be dissapointed. What is panning out slowly and what some 'feel', is that with the same borders, Pakistan would get even less than what it might get now. You have to understand that India is a status quoist power. Doing nothing, or things remaining the same suits India just fine. India consolidates its national power which keeps increasing vis-a-vis Pakistan. Thus Pakistan's bargaining power decreases with every passing year.

To cite an example, decades back Pakistani military had the confidence that it could militarily beat India(conventionally), today Pakistani military aims at best for minimum defence. That initself resembles how the realization is comming in fits and starts.

India wants nothing more from Pakistan apart from an end to militancy, with that already happening and a growing economy, its the jackpot for India in any case.

For Pakistan, she has to do something dramatically different to change this status quo. That is unlikely to happen. And without that, best to cut your losses so to speak.
 
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