Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[halloweene]

Yes, it is very sad, placed qhere it is noone goese take a look or so few...

 

[Abingdonboy]

2 full sqd abd May be half dedicated training Sqd. ????
Last edited: Today at 1:55 AM

For frontline fighters there aren't dedicated training SQDs in the IAF. The pilots follow the 4 step training process- BTT, IJT, AJT and OCU. The OCU is on the type of a/c they will fly. So if you have a M2K pilot he will undergo the 3 initial stages then go and train on a 2 seat M2K from one of the operational M2K SQDs, if you have a MKI pilot he will complete the first 3 stages then go and train on the MKI (already a twin seat) from an MKI SQD. Keeping a state of the art fighter like the MKI or Rafale in purely a training role is a colossal waste of resources and capabilities.


Something I remember picking up on with ACM Naik (IIRC) was he said when the IAF inducts the Rafale, the first 4-5 units will not go to any operational SQD but till be going to TACDE where they will remain for a food 2-3 years. TACDE will be writing the IAF's operational "play book" on the Rafale as they have done with every other a/c type in IAF service. I mean that would sort of work out the numbers, wouldn't it? An IAF SQD is 18-20 fighters so discount 5/6 units and you are left with 40 and this is about 2 SQDs worth, maybe there's something in this figure after all@sancho?

 

[halloweene]

TACDE already started writing book, dont you think so?

 

[Abingdonboy]

TACDE already started writing book, dont you think so?

I'm sure they have done some work on this front but they need to have the Rafale in their hands for a period of time to get the main body of of the work done. They can't be expected to work with out the Rafale in their possession.

 

[sancho]

generally GOI will not roll back on previous GOI's decision

But there is no decision on MMRCA so far, all we have is, that Rafale is the prefered fighter and there are prefered negotiations with Dassault and Co.

2 full sqd abd May be half dedicated training Sqd. ????

Doubtful, if they wanted extra trainers, they would had included them in the RFP requirement too, so 18 (= 1 x squad) + additional trainers, but that wasn't the case. Also, increasing the number of twin seaters per squadron, automatically increases the number of trainers too, which makes the procurement of extra fighters for training purpose not useful and just adds costs.

More pics from Poland and Lithuania:

Rafale and Mig 29s

EF, Mig 29 and F15

 

[halloweene]

First photo is a "chase" btw. Some polish pilots seemed a bit jealous...

 

[Span]

@sancho: Why is there a trail of smoke coming out of engines of Mig29 only?

 

[he-man]

@sancho: Why is there a trail of smoke coming out of engines of Mig29 only?

I think only latest rd-33 mk are smokeless

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

How many years will it take till India signs the contract ...

 

[jha]

Of course, been doing that for 4 years now

I'm gonna pull a time out of my backside but I'd wager on the deal being signed before August 2016 with Boeing/Saab

Fixed it for you...

 

[Abingdonboy]

How many years will it take till India signs the contract ...

Silly question really, a procurement of this scale and nature is entirely unprecedented in modern history. There is no set time frame for these things, the complexity of this deal is colossal and throw in a general election right at the end of the talks then you get this situation.

Fixed it for you...

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

Unprecedented in moder history? That's too big to take. We ordered 151 F-15SA after 2 consecutive years of negotiations.

The reason why India didn't sign till now is due to the fact that it wants a bigger discount, and more ToT.

By the time the first IAF DR arrival, China will be introducing two - three more aircrafts.

Silly question really, a procurement of this scale and nature is entirely unprecedented in modern history. There is no set time frame for these things, the complexity of this deal is colossal and throw in a general election right at the end of the talks then you get this situation.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Unprecedented in moder history? That's too big to take. We ordered 151 F-15SA after 2 consecutive years of negotiations.

I'm sorry but this is an illogical comparison. India's MMRCA IS unique in modern history- 6 competing aircraft from 6 different manufactures with complex offset and ToT requirements. The IAF had to test each individual a/c on over 600 pre-defined parameters both in India and in their home nation, compile a detailed report highlighting their preference that went to the MoD and only then were the bids opened and negations begun. What India has achieved is quite remarkable and the bidders have been nothing but praising of the selection and bidding process similarly other countries (Brazil for e.g.) had expressed interest in the IAF's selection reports for which the IAF has applied a patent to.

In short the MMRCA is unique in defence procurement history. Yes there may be bigger deals in pure dollar terms but in terms of scale and complexity the MMRCA is in a class of one hence the time taken, even that time it has taken is not unreasonable really.

The reason why India didn't sign till now is due to the fact that it wants a bigger discount, and more ToT.

Nonsense, this really is. India has never asked for a discount, it will pay for what best meets its needs. Similarly the Indian side's demand for ToT has been constant and hasn't fluctuated and is the same as it was outlined in the RFPs.


Please tell me who the F-15SA went up against? How many parameters did the RSAF look at before selecting the SA? What kind of industrial benefits has SA seen? What kind of ToT have you got with them?

 

[egodoc222]

How many years will it take till India signs the contract ...

we dont have oil wells like you!!

 

[Black Eagle 90]

Will this Rafael tender should be turned in to getting all of the 150 FAF Mirages-2000 with new upgrade???