Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[redpearl75]

What I feel is that no matter what happens this time the decision this time won't be political as the force won't let that happen.... Indians have already suffered a lot due the politicaly biased decisions over tha past 10 years... And now the force seeks something that's really worth procuring... No matter what the media says or the people there says I have a feeling that this time the deal would be in favor of the defence and not just the government.....

 

[sancho]

And i can't help but think that this is because of the MoD looking at a very unique opportunity. Engine control is major issue for them. That alone is enough really.

Hi gogbot

True, the same engine for LCA MK2 and MMRCA would be a nice advantage for IAF in terms of maintenance and control like you said, but wouldn't we get the same if we choose GE 414 and F18SH? So we can't say that this is a reason for the EF to win MMRCA right? Imo IAF is not really taken the engine issue as a real important point for MMRCA, otherwise they would have invited the Kaveri - Snecma engine and the RD33 MK into the LCA engine competition too.
Moreover do you think that this advantage is enough to equalise the downsides of the EF for our forces?

- AESA radar not ready in time for at least the first squadron
- the weakest A2G capabilities of all MMRCAs
- the highest costs of all MMRCAs
- and no naval version available for IN
- all EF partners are reducing their orders and some even plan to cancell the T3B completelly, which makes the future development of the EF and further upgrades difficult


For LCA MK2 the EJ 200 engine would be a great addition, but just licence producing more foreign engines for MMRCAs does not really help our own industry, like Dash said, it's just a way for the EF partners to reduce costs by outsourcing parts of the production to India. If the EF partners instead would offer such a deal like the French did, to co-develop the Kaveri engine and integrate it in their fighters too it would be way more interesting deal.
For example 99 x EJ 200 for LCA MK2 and 36 x for the first EF squad, but all licence produced EF squads will get a co-developed Kaveri-EJ engine with 3D TVC and SC features.

That is one reason I prefer the Rafale deal, because it offers not only licence production of foreign parts, but the possibility to integrate indigenous parts too and that should be the aim of these deals. Not to remain a simple buyer, or producer of foreign parts only, but to get as much involvement as possible, be it in terms of partnerships, or through co-developments / JVs.

 

[Tejas-MkII]

For example 99 x EJ 200 for LCA MK2 and 36 x for the first EF squad, but all licence produced EF squads will get a co-developed Kaveri-EJ engine with 3D TVC and SC features.

i very much agree with the quoted part, if Euro consortium agree to this part then it will make their deal more interesting and competitive.And in the present context only france possibly can offer this type of deal, which is very much possible if IN also like to have Rafale for their CBG, then this imginaton can become reality.

 

[jha]

Australian F/A-18F Pre-wired For EA​

Australia’s decision to pre-wire half of its F/A-18Fs for the electronic-attack mission is generating interest in the option among potential international buyers of the Super Hornet, Boeing says.

The first of 12 aircraft equipped with wiring for conversion to the electronic-attack mission has rolled off the production line in St. Louis and will be delivered to Australia by year’s end, says Kory Mathews, F/A-18 programs vice president.

Pre-fitting the F/A-18F with the same wiring as the EA-18G Growler allows the Super Hornet to be modified later to perform the “electronic awareness” and/or electronic-attack roles, Mathews says.

For electronic awareness, the aircraft would be equipped with the ALQ-218 radar-band and ALQ-227 communications-band receivers to enable it to monitor, analyze and locate potentially hostile emitters. The aircraft could act on the information or send it to other air or ground users. Adding the ALQ-99 jamming pods would give the modified Super Hornet the full electronic-attack capability of the EA-18G.

“Pre-wiring is a cost-effective option for a customer considering electronic awareness and/or electronic attack,” Mathews says. Internationally, there is “curiosity to understand what the option provides,” but no formal discussions yet, he adds.

Electronic awareness and electronic attack are separate functions, Mathews says. “Jamming is important, but there is significant operational utility in enhanced electronic awareness.”

There is “no downside” to pre-wiring the F/A-18F to provide the option for future conversion, he maintains. The additional cabling “adds about 300 lb. to the aircraft, otherwise there is no difference.”

Boeing, meanwhile, is moving ahead with planned upgrades to the F/A-18E/F. Flight tests of the distributed targeting system began this month. The upgrade adds an image-exploitation processor and mass memory unit.

The system compares synthetic-aperture radar maps from the aircraft’s active-array radar with stored geo-registered SAR maps and generates precise target coordinates for GPS-guided weapons. The capability is to become operational in 2012.

This is to be followed by a podded infrared search-and-track (IRST) sensor and enhancements to the APG-79 active, electronically scanned array radar and sensor-fusion capabilities.

Boeing also is offering a range of upgrades to potential international customers, including conformal fuel tanks, large-area cockpit displays, stealthy weapons pods, enhanced-performance engine (EPE), embedded IRST and distributed aperture systems.

The only one of these formally proposed so far, Mathews says, is the increased-thrust F414EPE in the F/A-18E/F offered to India for the 126-fighter Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft requirement.

Australian F/A-18F Pre-wired For EA | AVIATION WEEK

 

[SpArK]

F-18 surely looks better now with future upgrade programs and cost effectiveness.

EF and Rafale , I guess.

Clinton makes a pitch for India to buy American defence equipment - Winnipeg Free Press

 

[rockstarIN]

F-18 surely looks better now with future upgrade programs and cost effectiveness.

EF and Rafale , I guess.

Clinton makes a pitch for India to buy American defence equipment - Winnipeg Free Press

NO US systems pls..

Who knows they secretly plant devices inside the plane to track thru GPS...!!

Cant trust them

 

[Desi Sher]

NO US systems pls..

Who knows they secretly plant devices inside the plane to track thru GPS...!!

Cant trust them

As if we do not have the jammer..... Israelis are still our friends remember???

 

[rockstarIN]

As if we do not have the jammer..... Israelis are still our friends remember???

Who knows there are more modern technologies which was secretly kept by US to track down?

 

[Desi Sher]

Who knows there are more modern technologies which was secretly kept by US to track down?

Come on they would not be stupid Enough to do that, it would Bring down there defense Exports if found out....

 

[luckyyy]

F-18 surely looks better now with future upgrade programs and cost effectiveness.

how F-18 looks cost effective when the engine itself is so costly , $8.3ml for one GE F414 engine compare to $6.7ml for EJ200 ..
( based on they bid for LCA engine tender )

if an aircraft has to go engine replecement twice in it's lifecycle the life-cycle cost of F-18 is more then $15ml to eurofighter on engine itself...

 

[SpArK]

NO US systems pls..

Who knows they secretly plant devices inside the plane to track thru GPS...!!

Cant trust them

Track us through GPS??? and for what?? to attack us??? or to say hiii to the pilot??? I dont see US and India going into a conflict..

And also we will be having /integrating our own GPS system by then,.!!!

 

[SpArK]

how F-18 looks cost effective when the engine itself is so costly , $8.3ml for one GE F414 engine compare to $6.7ml for EJ200 ..
( based on they bid for LCA engine tender )

if an aircraft has to go engine replecement twice in it's lifecycle the life-cycle cost of F-18 is more then $15ml to eurofighter on engine itself...

Do you know that costs it costs £90,000 per hour to keep it in the air in case of EF???


And have u heard of future plans of F-18 super hornets??

Livefist - The Best of Indian Defence: Boeing Offers India "Super Hornet International Roadmap"



Boeing displays manned F/A-XX concept jet

 

[luckyyy]

Do you know that costs it costs £90,000 per hour to keep it in the air in case of EF???


And have u heard of future plans of F-18 super hornets??

Livefist - The Best of Indian Defence: Boeing Offers India "Super Hornet International Roadmap"

Boeing displays manned F/A-XX concept jet

no, it was not £90,000 but £73,000 ...and it's not for one eurofighter but for three....and it includes all the other expences on logistic and crew members to take them to verious airshows/trails ..

 

[rockstarIN]

Track us through GPS??? and for what?? to attack us??? or to say hiii to the pilot??? I dont see US and India going into a conflict..

And also we will be having /integrating our own GPS system by then,.!!!

the logic is like installing bugs in the software by the programmer itself.

I heard earlier that during Argentina-England war, brits got the source codes of exocite missles from french to escape from tht.(no sources/links though with me)

 

[rockstarIN]

Do you know that costs it costs £90,000 per hour to keep it in the air in case of EF???


And have u heard of future plans of F-18 super hornets??

Livefist - The Best of Indian Defence: Boeing Offers India "Super Hornet International Roadmap"



Boeing displays manned F/A-XX concept jet

Benny 90k/hr is really inflated amount., i heard 15k for MKI somewhere in this fourm(flying cost only)