Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[sancho]

At the meeting, both sides decided to speed up the Rafale Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) deal

Still just hopes from their side, what matters now is only what the Government / MoD actually wants and the French are suffering from the decisison of the new MoD. EC Fennec and Panther helicopters, additional Scorpenes and even Maitri SAM deals that were not only likely but close to be sealed, seems to be delayed and the outcome wide open now.
Have some doubts on the article though, neither is Maitri SAM aimed on IAF, nor is Akash a replacement, additional SPYDER SAMs would be.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Any news from our french friend here? Hearing a buzz that negotiation for a sweetener deal is underway.
BTW Russian ambassador comments abt rafales taken out by Su27 seems to be a bit too far fetched. But then again a direct salvo from a competitor who lost out is often misrepresenting. Hope this kind of talks make the signing quicker so that all can shut up permanently

 

[halloweene]

We can't give any news as we don't have any... I can just tell you that DA executives are smiling....

 

[Basel]

To much of the discussion now please buy them or dump them make a decision India.

 

[cloud_9]

French Navy receives first upgraded Rafale F3 - IHS Jane's 360

 

[halloweene]

F3.3' btw

 

[SirHatesALot]

This deal wont ever get signed.

 

[halloweene]

If you say so... Insider?

 

[sancho]

British RAF Now Flying Improved Typhoon Aircraft

Typhoon fighters equipped with a package of new capabilities have entered operational service with the Royal Air Force...

...Separately, BAE is also working on a new set of upgrades for the jet, and a company spokesman said BAE expects to be under contract to integrate the latest version of the Brimstone ground attack missile, known as Brimstone 2, on Typhoon in the first quarter of 2015...

...
Next up on the upgrade path for the Typhoon is an extension of the weapon types the jet can carry.

“We have contracts and work ongoing for the Phase 2 Enhancements package and long lead-time activity commenced around the Phase 3 Enhancements package,” the BAE spokeswoman said. “Phase 2 Enhancements will offer integration of the Stormshadow stand-off missile through P2Ea and the Meteor beyond-visual-range, air-to-air missile at P2Eb. For Phase 3 Enhancements, we have funding from the UK MoD for long lead-time work for integration of the dual-mode Brimstone 2 weapon, with full contract award expected in Quarter 1 next year...

...Announcing the contract in June, BAE said integration on Typhoon could be completed by 2018.

Since then, an MoD source said, there has been an effort to speed up that process.

British RAF Now Flying Improved Typhoon Aircraft | Defense News | defensenews.com

We can't give any news as we don't have any... I can just tell you that DA executives are smiling....

Smiling didn't helped them in Brazil, nor did anything happend wrt Qatar as you expected in June right? The fact is, since the election Dassault officials "hope" for a signature of M-MRCA by the end of the year, but so far no clear sign was given from the new government. Moreover, the delay to the end of the year, makes risks to diverted the signature to the next FY higher too, depending on what deals get priority for funds this year. There isn't much difference for IAF if the contract is signed in December 2014 or 1st of April, while it is one for the MoD plannings and the government as a whole.

 

[The Unnamed]

British RAF Now Flying Improved Typhoon Aircraft | Defense News | defensenews.com

bhai saab, humein kya ?

humey rafale aur redesigned to parameter super sukhoi dono chahiye. apart from pakfa. two deals with sukhoi for 5th gen craft. that should take good care of middle to heavy to stealth. bottom half and ground. where iaf lacks. no ?

 

[PARIKRAMA]

@halloweene

Can u enlighten us where is now the hiccup? is the documentation so tedious that its nt over? or is it some cold feet syndrome (read reluctance) of Indian government. Surely, the way the whole thing is atm,. it looks a bit too much stretched.

i got to admit any signing delay by shifting to next FY would also hurt Dassault as atm they dont have any new signings to tide over this time. So i wish France and Dassault meet up PM Modi quickly and sign and finish it up quickly.

 

[sancho]

bhai saab, humein kya ?

humey rafale aur redesigned to parameter super sukhoi dono chahiye. apart from pakfa. two deals with sukhoi for 5th gen craft. that should take good care of middle to heavy to stealth. bottom half and ground. where iaf lacks. no ?

In english please.

Of course it's the "lower" end where IAF actually lacks, those fighters that should do the bulk of the work and in an ideal world, LCA would had been developed in a reasonable time and in a medium class rather than the light class. However, the reality is, LCA is delayed and by far not capable enough to be an alternative for the top end fighters in certain missions. Just has our top end (MKI and FGFA) will be very heavy and costly to operate. That's where the M-MRCA should not only offer the required numbers to cover LCA delays, but also capability to provide an operational more cost-effective alternative to the top end. Currently IAF is dependent on high use of MKIs, since there is hardly a capable alternative in the fleet. With M-MRCA, the flight hours of MKI can be reduced, or it can be geared to certain missions. FGFA will be highly capable as a fighter, but what many people simply forget, it also will be veeeery expensive to operate and that will be the main restrictions for the numbers of stealth fighters and operational use of them. So especially in peace times, we need a capable alternative that can take over the bulk of the operations, at a more reasonable cost.

 

[IND151]

In english please.

Of course it's the "lower" end where IAF actually lacks, those fighters that should do the bulk of the work and in an ideal world, LCA would had been developed in a reasonable time and in a medium class rather than the light class. However, the reality is, LCA is delayed and by far not capable enough to be an alternative for the top end fighters in certain missions. Just has our top end (MKI and FGFA) will be very heavy and costly to operate. That's where the M-MRCA should not only offer the required numbers to cover LCA delays, but also capability to provide an operational more cost-effective alternative to the top end. Currently IAF is dependent on high use of MKIs, since there is hardly a capable alternative in the fleet. With M-MRCA, the flight hours of MKI can be reduced, or it can be geared to certain missions. FGFA will be highly capable as a fighter, but what many people simply forget, it also will be veeeery expensive to operate and that will be the main restrictions for the numbers of stealth fighters and operational use of them. So especially in peace times, we need a capable alternative that can take over the bulk of the operations, at a more reasonable cost.

Not agreed.

LCA was supposed to repalce light fighters like Mig 21 and jags which it will.

And do you think it would have been wiser to jump directly to medium weight fighetr?

 

[PARIKRAMA]

@sancho
What you said is perfect but the question in mind is what is the delay now for? and what efforts both sides are making to close out the delay and sign off. Surely, the wine is not gonna taste much better if its there just for extra fermenting. The relevance and time of every deal is there in any country's context of its outlook. The question is if FGFA gets signed first then surely Dassault deal would be pushed to next FY. Also every other new acquisition would further delay the signing. Even though initial contract amount for signing may be low but still it does matter to see when and where its getting allocated.It is this where we dont get any clue at all

 

[sancho]

Not agreed.

To what exactly? Didn't I said that LCA was about to replace the low end? It won't replace the Jags though.

And do you think it would have been wiser to jump directly to medium weight fighetr?

Yes, that's why I would have loved to see the J10 / F16 / Mirage 2000 type of fighters in IAF rather than LCA. It is still cost-effective and can be mass produced, but if properly developed would be far more capable than LCA. Look at China with the J11 / J10 combo, or the US with F15 / F16, the gap between MKI and LCA is simply far too wide as a hi lo combo.

@sancho
What you said is perfect but the question in mind is what is the delay now for?

2012 to 2014 dealy caused by Dassault, for complying to RFP offest requirements and pointless debate on HALs workshare.
Today that is done, which leaves ToT and most importantly the final costs as an issue for negotiations. Another problem is, that we have a new government, which partially opposed the Rafale in the past and has to deal with it now. Simply pushing it through is surely not that easy for them and when we look at where the current importance is in defence deals, it clearly shows that the PM most likely will have an issue with the deal in it's current concept too, as his idea of make in India is different.

The question is if FGFA gets signed first then surely Dassault deal would be pushed to next FY. Also every other new acquisition would further delay the signing. Even though initial contract amount for signing may be low but still it does matter to see when and where its getting allocated.It is this where we dont get any clue at all

The more important point that the defence deals, might be how fast the growth is coming back, because that opens more space for the government to deal with things. As long as they are tied up with budget constrains at so many fields, they have to prioritise and that's also where defence deals fall short. From an operational level, there is no doubt about the importance of getting these fighters ASAP, but a new government will set it's priorities according to "their policies" and "their needs", which again, current decisions on key modernisations shows!