Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[Taygibay]

2012 to 2014 dealy caused by Dassault, for complying to RFP offest requirements and pointless debate on HALs workshare.

LOL Again that pure opinion of yours?
Never mind that the reverse view of Dassault wisely not wanting to assume responsibility for the
lacks of HAL, which are widely acknowledged by many wise Bharat citizens in any non-Rafale thread,
is in fact just as substantiated by the evidence, Sancho has found the light and all should follow!

Oh, well, at least you woke me up from this MMRCA nap!
Good for you and good day all, Tay.

 

[sancho]

2012 to 2014 dealy caused by Dassault, for complying to RFP offest requirements and pointless debate on HALs workshare.

LOL Again that pure opinion of yours?

Facts, buddy facts! Rafale was shortlisted in jan 2012, while Dassault CEO could confirm compliance to the offset requirements of the RFP only by jan 2014.
The link between Dassault and Reliance to gain larger shares was reported and discussed earlier too, which added another set of delays that could had been avoided.

So delays are not always based on the Indian side, if you like it or not.

 

[sancho]

A bit OT, but still...

Air India Boeing 787 Dreamliner loses radio contact gets intercepted by Italian Typhoons

A Boeing 787 Dreamliner, flying between Delhi and Rome as Air India AIC123 flight was intercepted by two Italian Air Force Eurofighter Typhoon interceptors from Grosseto airbase on Oct. 16.

According to the Italian Air Force, the aircraft, registration VT-ANQ, lost radio contact with the Air Traffic Control agencies and entered the Italian airspace unauthorized. For this reason the QRA (Quick Reaction Alert) cell at Grosseto airbase was scrambled to intercept, identify and escort the liner, as done last month with a Lebanese A320 following a bomb threat.

The two F-2000A jets of the 4° Stormo (Wing) reached the B787 at 24,000 feet to the southeast of Rome. The Typhoons identified the civil plane and shadowed it from distance, not to be seen by passengers and once at 30 kilometers from destination, they were cleared to return to their base.

The Aviationist » Air India Boeing 787 Dreamliner loses radio contact gets intercepted by Italian Typhoons


Bad Typhoon intercepting Indians!

 

[The Unnamed]

In english please.

Of course it's the "lower" end where IAF actually lacks, those fighters that should do the bulk of the work and in an ideal world, LCA would had been developed in a reasonable time and in a medium class rather than the light class. However, the reality is, LCA is delayed and by far not capable enough to be an alternative for the top end fighters in certain missions. Just has our top end (MKI and FGFA) will be very heavy and costly to operate. That's where the M-MRCA should not only offer the required numbers to cover LCA delays, but also capability to provide an operational more cost-effective alternative to the top end. Currently IAF is dependent on high use of MKIs, since there is hardly a capable alternative in the fleet. With M-MRCA, the flight hours of MKI can be reduced, or it can be geared to certain missions. FGFA will be highly capable as a fighter, but what many people simply forget, it also will be veeeery expensive to operate and that will be the main restrictions for the numbers of stealth fighters and operational use of them. So especially in peace times, we need a capable alternative that can take over the bulk of the operations, at a more reasonable cost.

englishaaaa !!! wo..wokkayy..

exactly my thoughts ! rafale is gonna become the lower end ruler of the se asian sky. TILL lca make is 40 planes up and running. making mkis free for their role. air superiority against a large formation of enemy fighters.

ground attack and the ability to protect itself on a lo altitude mission would make rafale a good substitute for both bisons ( similar in size to rafale) and older jaguars and mig 27s. a team of rafales with dedicated missions is a stealth attack in this part of the world. still. training. the key in rafale deal..from IAF perspective.

 

[jha]

https://twitter.com/x/status/523844588465700865

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Well can anyone enlighten about whats rafale engine life in flying hours, cost of operations and overhaul time frame and hours.


It would be nice if the same can be given about Su30 MKI and may be some more fighters of Russian/Chinese/Eurofighter and may be american. Hopefully if LCA stats are there then its nice too.

Well how efficient is the fighters versus their roles/payloads. Surely "kitna deti hai"/ (how much it gives) perennial efficiency/mileage questions of car logic but still can some one throw some light on that too..

It would be nice to understand that and see the cost of operating different fleets in a nutshell

 

[halloweene]

British RAF Now Flying Improved Typhoon Aircraft | Defense News | defensenews.com



Smiling didn't helped them in Brazil, nor did anything happend wrt Qatar as you expected in June right? The fact is, since the election Dassault officials "hope" for a signature of M-MRCA by the end of the year, but so far no clear sign was given from the new government. Moreover, the delay to the end of the year, makes risks to diverted the signature to the next FY higher too, depending on what deals get priority for funds this year. There isn't much difference for IAF if the contract is signed in December 2014 or 1st of April, while it is one for the MoD plannings and the government as a whole.

They didn't really smile about Brazil tbh. About Qatar, yes i hoped so but not them (i'm not on a daily schedule contact with them).
About Ef upgrades, P1Eb was scheduled this year and well happens in time. Good. Writing a story atm about Ef program btw .
But i do have probs in finalizing it. For example, Meteor capability (not full integration) was scheduled with F2Eb (aka SRP 14 Step2), but on RAF site i see 2015/2016 expected. Any help for official quotes are welcome!

2012 to 2014 dealy caused by Dassault, for complying to RFP offest requirements and pointless debate on HALs workshare.

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/dassault-rafale-tender-news-discussions.4347/page-675#ixzz3Gj8Wb0dt

No, it was NEVER written anywhere that seller was to be responsible for HAL work.

 

[sancho]

About Ef upgrades, P1Eb was scheduled this year and well happens in time. Good. Writing a story atm about Ef program btw .
But i do have probs in finalizing it. For example, Meteor capability (not full integration) was scheduled with F2Eb (aka SRP 14 Step2), but on RAF site i see 2015/2016 expected. Any help for official quotes are welcome!

Will be interesting to read, but I'm not too familiar with the EF upgrade codes (too confusing). METEOR was suppose to be followed by Storm Shadow wasn't it? But Storm Shadow is expected only by next year (P2EA right?), so METEOR by 2016 seems realistic.

No, it was NEVER written anywhere that seller was to be responsible for HAL work.

Which no Indian official stated in the firstplace! The whole responsibility issue was made up by Dassault, to divert workshare from HAL to Reliance and not because the Indian side wanted to keep Dassault in a stronghold of being responsible for HAL's work. That's why the official responses from the MoD as well as IAF always pointed to the RFP and made clear that HAL will remain the prime Indian manufacturer for "workshare" and not to any responsibility clauses. At the end no change of workshare was allowed and some minor changes in the contracts were achived, which could had been cleared within weeks and not 1 year as it took now. But that simply was not what Dassault / Reliance aimed on with these lengthy negotiations.[/quote]

 

[Somras]

hell lets scrap MMRCA - rafale

lets buy more of Su30Mki and LCA

for the cost of 1 Rafale =120mill

we can get 1 Super Su30Mki (70 mil Est) + 1 LCA mk2 (40 mil -est) + 10 Mil spare

so for the price of 126 Rafale

we can buy 126 Super Su30mki + 80 LCA mk2 + 40 LCA mk1 (over and above 40 already ordered)

 

[cerberus]

we can get 1 Super Su30Mki (70 mil Est)

100 million Est according to current needed confrigration

 

[Somras]

100 million Est according to current needed confrigration

any source for 100 mil?

 

[MokshaVimukthi]

hell lets scrap MMRCA - rafale

lets buy more of Su30Mki and LCA

for the cost of 1 Rafale =120mill

we can get 1 Super Su30Mki (70 mil Est) + 1 LCA mk2 (40 mil -est) + 10 Mil spare

so for the price of 126 Rafale

we can buy 126 Super Su30mki + 80 LCA mk2 + 40 LCA mk1 (over and above 40 already ordered)

You are wrong.

The last order for 42 Su 30 MKI from HAL was worth almost 15,000 crores which make each Su 30 MKI worth 58.5 Million $ or ~ 60 Million $.

The LCA price was pegged at 162 crores per aircraft by HAL which makes it 26.5 million $ for Tejas.

So for 120 million we get either 2 Su 30 MKI or

One Su30 MKI + 2 LCA Mk1

Alternatively we can also assume that I Rafale is better than 2 Su 30MKI or one Su 30 MKI+2 LCA. (considering the professional abilities of IAF)

 

[cerberus]

any source for 100 mil?

Latest figures tabled in parliament, however, show that another deal for 40 + 2 Sukhois (2 are replacements for aircraft that crashed last year), to be manufactured by Hindustan Aeronautical Limited (HAL) under licence from the Russian Federation’s Irkutsk, has been struck for $4.3 billion (Rs20,125 crore), that is $102 million (Rs480 crore) a piece.
Aircraft deals with ‘friend’ Russia costing dear | Latest News & Updates at Daily News & Analysis

The last order for 42 Su 30 MKI from HAL was worth almost 15,000 crores which make each Su 30 MKI worth 58.5 Million $ or ~ 60 Million $.

Latest figures tabled in parliament, however, show that another deal for 40 + 2 Sukhois (2 are replacements for aircraft that crashed last year), to be manufactured by Hindustan Aeronautical Limited (HAL) under licence from the Russian Federation’s Irkutsk, has been struck for $4.3 billion (Rs20,125 crore), that is $102 million (Rs480 crore) a piece


Aircraft deals with ‘friend’ Russia costing dear | Latest News & Updates at Daily News & Analysis

 

[sancho]

About Ef upgrades, P1Eb was scheduled this year and well happens in time. Good. Writing a story atm about Ef program btw .
But i do have probs in finalizing it. For example, Meteor capability (not full integration) was scheduled with F2Eb (aka SRP 14 Step2), but on RAF site i see 2015/2016 expected. Any help for official quotes are welcome!

P.S. No official quote, but maybe Scorpions explanations helps:

What does mean (P2E will be delivered on two separate software releases
P2EA by the end of 2015 and P2EB by the first quarter of 2017.) ? Does it mean P2EA/SRP14 , P2EB/SRP16 or am I wrong ?...

...Nope it's supposed to be two revisions of SRP14, refered to as step 1 & 2 respectively. SRP16 would be introduced with P3E which hasn't been contracted yet.

eurofighter @ starstreak.net • View topic - Typhoon Upgrades & Enhancements

 

[MokshaVimukthi]

Latest figures tabled in parliament, however, show that another deal for 40 + 2 Sukhois (2 are replacements for aircraft that crashed last year), to be manufactured by Hindustan Aeronautical Limited (HAL) under licence from the Russian Federation’s Irkutsk, has been struck for $4.3 billion (Rs20,125 crore), that is $102 million (Rs480 crore) a piece.
Aircraft deals with ‘friend’ Russia costing dear | Latest News & Updates at Daily News & Analysis


Latest figures tabled in parliament, however, show that another deal for 40 + 2 Sukhois (2 are replacements for aircraft that crashed last year), to be manufactured by Hindustan Aeronautical Limited (HAL) under licence from the Russian Federation’s Irkutsk, has been struck for $4.3 billion (Rs20,125 crore), that is $102 million (Rs480 crore) a piece


Aircraft deals with ‘friend’ Russia costing dear | Latest News & Updates at Daily News & Analysis

That was the total price for 42 Sukhoi-30MKI fighters and 71 additional Mi-17 V5 helicopters which was signed when putin was here.

Here are facts from a FAR more Reliable newspaper called the Hindu.

India, Russia sign defence deals worth around $3 billion - The Hindu

...India today inked deals worth around $ 3 billion (Rs. 16510 crore) with Russia to procure 42 new Su–30 MKI combat aircraft and 71 Mi–17V5 medium-lift helicopters.

...Under one contract worth around $ 2.2 billion (Rs. 12107 crore) for licence production of 42 Su–30MKIs, Russia will deliver technical kits to the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL)


i.e each Su 30MKi kit was worth 47.2 million $.