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Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

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A lot of people are creating a fuss over the cost savings of 20,000 crores ($3.3 billion USD if I am not mistaken) in favor of the Eurofighter. Consider this; so many have flown the Eurofighter, that if any potential enemy wants to understand the strengths and weaknesses of this aircraft, all they have to do is organize exercises with a friendly country that does fly it. For example, (before anyone accuses me of flinging dirt, I am just pointing the obvious and not saying this with the intention of trolling), if Pakistan wants to get a relative idea of what the 30MKI's are capable of all they need to do is fly to China (as they have done so in the recent past), if India had EFs, all they would need to do is organize the same with Saudi Arabia.

However while the chances of Saudis letting anyone else take a peek at their EFs (considering that they are partners in the program and have modified it somewhat to their own specs) are slim, it does reduce the potential advantage by a certain degree (debatable) of planning tactics and strategies with this kind of a plane considering how much closer Pakistan is to Saudi Arabia than India. Now the Rafale is flown by no one else save France, and reports are doubtful of sales to another country except India, so the tactics and strategies developed will be exclusive only to the Indians. Is exclusivity in tactics and strategy in order to retain aerial superiority worth $3.3 billion USD??.....So much more in my opinion.....

What is a guarantee that French will not sell the Rafale to a third nation? They are negotiating deal with Qatar.

Even if they don't sell your point doesn't stand its ground. If it did then we should immediately scrap our Su 30 since Chinese have hundreds of them or their copies.

$3 billion dollars is a lot of money. Govt should focus on national interests and not some niceties.
Also the Eurofighter upgrades (e.g. Captor E) will make it way ahead of Rafale.
 
This whole deal has become such a mess. How the heck does someone suddenly come in with a Rs.20000 crore saving? Reiterates a point I have been making from long - cost parameters should have been an issue right from the very beginning. No matter what price this deal is struck at & no matter what aircraft they finally choose, this deal has become an absolute mess. The French should be told to better EF's offer (now that it seems we are committed to either EF or Rafale on technical grounds) or take a walk. There should be no way whatsoever that the French should simply get the deal at whatever cost they propose.
 
This whole deal has become such a mess. How the heck does someone suddenly come in with a Rs.20000 crore saving? Reiterates a point I have been making from long - cost parameters should have been an issue right from the very beginning. No matter what price this deal is struck at & no matter what aircraft they finally choose, this deal has become an absolute mess. The French should be told to better EF's offer (now that it seems we are committed to either EF or Rafale on technical grounds) or take a walk. There should be no way whatsoever that the French should simply get the deal at whatever cost they propose.

I think its too late for that.
Our negotiators already had to climb mountains with their fat bellies just to get 1 deal done, another one with the same questions of life cycle costs, total price, spare parts availability, EF accountability, ToT and god knows what else will take them another 3 years.
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What is a guarantee that French will not sell the Rafale to a third nation? They are negotiating deal with Qatar.

Even if they don't sell your point doesn't stand its ground. If it did then we should immediately scrap our Su 30 since Chinese have hundreds of them or their copies.

$3 billion dollars is a lot of money. Govt should focus on national interests and not some niceties.
Also the Eurofighter upgrades (e.g. Captor E) will make it way ahead of Rafale.


Yes you are correct about the Qatar thing, it escaped my notice. However they do not engage with Pakistan as much as Saudi does, and in any case they will take a while to push the flight envelope and build strategies to share much after India does. However if this additional saving in 3.3 billion comes with complete ToT on critical technologies, then I may change my opinion, however ultimately the decision lies in the hands of the MoD...
 
$20bn is a lot of money and we don't have to spend it without looking at every option. If we can save $3bn by purchasing Typhoon then by all means go for it or ask Rafale to match the offer. If still in doubt then get all the MKI's to urgent super upgrade and purchase additional 100+ super Sukohi and push for LCA MK2 for timely induction.

We just don't have a luxury to spend $20bn without making sure that we are getting every pence worth of it.
 
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Deadly Dassault Rafale

An old but very interesting article
download the link
http://www.vayuaerospace.in/images1/Selected_pdf/DeadlyDassaultRafale.pdf

Some of the best part of this source

rafale's low rcs demonsrtrations
rafale_s_low_rcs_capabilty_agaisnt_us_f14_f18_fi.jpg

rafale_s_low_rcs_capabilty_agaisnt_us_f14_f18_fi.jpg



2 squadrons would provide cover entire india airspace
2_squadrons_of_rafale_would_provide_cover_indian.jpg

2_squadrons_of_rafale_would_provide_cover_indian.jpg


Surely this is interesting as many critics who are claiming that MMRCA took very long time & by 2020 only 1 & 1/2 squadron of rafale would be inducted so what major
difference would that number make in future battle but we should rather save money for LCA mark2 & concentrate on PAK-FA

but neither of them i think gonna be inducted by that time at best Pakfa 1/2 squadron at best could be inducted by 2020

so by 2020 existing fleet Super Su -30 mki with only 2 squadrons of Rafale could cover entire indian airspace .IMO india should rather dont install ZHUK -AE radar on Super SU 30 plane as it max range more or less same with RBE 2 aesa radar but rather install pak-fa tikhomirov NIIP AESA radar on SU 30 as it would act like an MINI AWACS platform can guide Rafale which is in passive mode to it's target from a standoff range .

BTW no news yet about KS 100 novator missile yet


CHEERS
 
German fighter jets unable to fly and mechanics forced to borrow spare parts, claims magazine - Telegraph


The EFT program is really just a mess- some member nations pay for parts of the EFT's capability road map to be implemented in a piecemeal manner, other member nations are unable to keep their jets serviceable and are trying to cut the number of EFTs they have on order etc etc

India would do well to stay away from this chaos otherwise it will be sucked into the fray and forced to throw untold millions down the drain to get a somewhat capable fighter that , in 5 years, will be as capable as the Rafale was 4 years ago (relatively).
 
20000 crores is a large sum. Get Typhoon if we can save this money.

We don't save money compared to the Rafale offer, they might have reduced their price compared to their own initial offer and might be closer to the Rafale offer now. But money is not the issue, but what you get in return! With the right offer, even a more expensive EF can win, or at least let the MoD re-evaluate the situation.


Deadly Dassault Rafale

Pretty strange conclusions in the article, Rafale would never be used for top cover MKIs, because the capabilities of the fighters would be far better used the other way around.

to get a somewhat capable fighter that , in 5 years, will be as capable as the Rafale was 4 years ago (relatively).

Actually, the point is not when the EF T3B with AESA will arrive anymore (early version could be available 2016, fully operational one by 2018), but that it might surpass even the Rafale F3R by 2018 in many fields.
AESA detection range and FoV, CAS by 2018 and with SPEAR 3 it also will be far superior in SEAD. So can IAF compromise on getting inferior T3As by 2016 an compared to Rafale F3+ by 2018, to get superior EF T3Bs by 2018 compared to Rafale F3Rs? Sure, but can MoD compromise on the high costs??? That's the real question!
 
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The only answer i could get is "there is still work to be done" Sancho...
 
Pretty strange conclusions in the article, Rafale would never be used for top cover MKIs, because the capabilities of the fighters would be far better used the other way around.


Nothing strange there at all. It says that the 'MKIs will fly top cover to the Rafales'. Just read the highlighted parts of @DrSomnath999's post#9936.
And there is more in the original article which appeared in Vayu; how the MKI/Rafale combo will actually operate in tandem.
 
They will continue to milk any benefit out of France for the favour of buying Rafales. What about the Qataris, any changes on their side?

Don't you think we are not as good negotiators as UAE as they extract plenty from these baniya French?
 
guys, be careful about what you discuss. thank you all for making it such a great thread. Hate to sound like it, hope you will not mind this post. Goes for all the stickys in indian defence forum. :cheers:

:pleasantry:
 
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