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Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

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Don't you think we are not as good negotiators as UAE as they extract plenty from these baniya French?

In defence deals we are not good negotiators because the user and the buyer and the strategic thinkers and the suppliers are all separate entities with little commonality of purpose.

IAF does not care about the cost of the a/c, HAL does not care about the cost of the a/c, the actual buyers (babu's) are concerned about the cost but does not care about the absorption of technology or the time frame of delivery, HAL does not care about the time frame or quality or customer, it only cares about its survival, the strategic thinkers are too loft and does not get into the nitty gritty of negotiations.

The cumulative effect of this culture of "mera kya" is a situation where the seller can take advantage of our lethargy, ignorance and indifference to extract the best deal for themselves.

That is why ALL defence purchase in India is so expensive.
 
Nothing strange there at all. It says that the 'MKIs will fly top cover to the Rafales'. Just read the highlighted parts of @DrSomnath999's post#9936.
And there is more in the original article which appeared in Vayu; how the MKI/Rafale combo will actually operate in tandem.

True my fault misread the part, but the article remains with strange conclusions, because India will never gain air superiority with just 2 squadrons of Rafale, even with AWACS support (that still needs to come in a useful manner, while our opponents already have the advantage there). IAF will always will need the MKI, while the Rafale and force multipliers surely will increase their capability, but we simply are not facing easy opponents like the NATO does in most cases.

The only answer i could get is "there is still work to be done" Sancho...

Sad for Rafale, the reports before the summer sounded rather positive for Qatar, however that's good for India though, since the fighters in 2016/17 would still be free for us.
 
Don't you think we are not as good negotiators as UAE as they extract plenty from these baniya French?

They use their advantages, we use ours, but the situation is different there. The UAE is a prime market for French arms and techs, with close political ties. There is hardly competition other than some of the US and that's a huge advantage that the French obviously don't want to lose. That's why they will bow more or more easy to UAE demands to remain in an exclusive relation.
In India they are facing tough competitions, which we are using to get the most in return for us and with our markets open for the US now, their situation got only more difficult than it already was with Russians, Israelis and other European competitors. Sadly, the French are not following the example of the Russians (and partially Israelis), to counter competitions by going for joint developments and secure a major share in India.
 
They use their advantages, we use ours, but the situation is different there. The UAE is a prime market for French arms and techs, with close political ties. There is hardly competition other than some of the US and that's a huge advantage that the French obviously don't want to lose. That's why they will bow more or more easy to UAE demands to remain in an exclusive relation.
In India they are facing tough competitions, which we are using to get the most in return for us and with our markets open for the US now, their situation got only more difficult than it already was with Russians, Israelis and other European competitors. Sadly, the French are not following the example of the Russians (and partially Israelis), to counter competitions by going for joint developments and secure a major share in India.

I disagree, the only +ve Rafale have is not putting all the eggs in one basket. They love F-16s and will order more F-16s. If there is hardly any competition, it should ideally help France not to give more concessions.
 
I disagree, the only +ve Rafale have is not putting all the eggs in one basket. They love F-16s and will order more F-16s. If there is hardly any competition, it should ideally help France not to give more concessions.

The F16 has nothing to do with the Mirage replacement, but so far there is no competition there, the UAE are only threatening the French to consider the EF or US fighters, to gain more advantages from the French. That's the difference to the Indian situation, where there are only exclusive negotiations with Dassault, after the competition was done and Rafale was actually shortlisted as the prefered choice.
Btw, they love their Mirage 2000-9 even more than the F16s, because it offers them the freedom to add more capable systems and even their own weapons now, which is why they constantly keep upgrading them. They don't have to replace them and considering Rafale now, is just a favour towards the French, which puts the UAE in an excellent position to negotiate.
 
I disagree, the only +ve Rafale have is not putting all the eggs in one basket. They love F-16s and will order more F-16s. If there is hardly any competition, it should ideally help France not to give more concessions.
So why did they use their Mirage 2000-9 in order to bomb Lybia instead of F-16?
 
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Mistral row: France risks losing Rafale contract in India

A leading French analyst believes that France’s credibility as a reliable supplier of weapons is at stake if it refuses to send the Mistral-class amphibious warships to Russia.

France risks losing a contract to supply 126 fighter jets to India due to its refusal to deliver Mistral-class ships to Russia, a leading French analyst told the Delovoi Peterburg website. French officials said this week that they will not deliver the first Mistral-class amphibious warship that Russia had ordered as part of a $1.7 billion agreement for weapons sale.

The biggest repercussion would be a loss of reputation for France as a reliable supplier, Arnaud Dubien, a Russia research associate at the Institut de relations Internationales et Strategiques said. “Officials from the French Ministry of Defence, in private conversations acknowledge that if they fail to deliver the Mistral to Russia, then France will lose its contract to supply 126 fighter jets to India,” Dubien said.

Dubien believes that the decision of French President Francois Hollande, to suspend the delivery of the Mistral, is not final, and was taken under tremendous pressure from the United States and Germany. He added that a final decision would be taken by November on the delivery of the warships, and a lot would depend on how the situation in Ukraine panned out.

A source in the Indian Defence Ministry said that India was “watching the developments closely.” The source added it was too early to say if this would factor into the government’s decision to sign a contract. “When such a large amount of money is paid and then a supplier uses geopolitics to delay or suspend deliveries, it does raise eyebrows,” the source, who was not authorised to talk to the media, said. The Indian Ministry of Defence could not be immediately reached for official comment...

Mistral row: France risks losing Rafale contract in India | Russia & India Report


:disagree:
 
Sadly I wanted this plane even more than Fgfa From Russia.

Sadley I was worried by the cost over 15 months ago and did suggest the Indians getting cold feet.

I think my prediction was bang on I did mention slow down in GDP growth the devalue of rupee as s cause of my concern.

Some people got very shirty with my post
 
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