Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[Gabbar]

Sweden's SAAB offers advanced radar with Gripen combat jet​

​

(Source: IANS)
Published: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 at 14:55 ISTF Prev Next LNew Delhi:
The race for an Indian Air Force (IAF) order for 126 combat jets in a deal worth $10 billion just got more interesting with Swedish plane maker SAAB offering an advanced version of a state-of-the-art radar with its Gripen fighter and also the wherewithal to enable its programming here.
"What we are offering is a second generation AESA (advanced extended search array radar) that incorporates a swishplate that enables it to rotate and considerably enhances its capabilities over the existing radar," Gripen International's India director Eddy de la Motte told reporters Wednesday.

"The radar will come with its software source code." ​

The software source code has been a sticky point, with at least two of the six manufacturers in the race for the IAF order, which could go up to 200 planes, expressing reservations on transferring this to India.


Without the code, the IAF would be dependent on the manufacturer who is selected for the order for programming the radar, thus impinging on the country's national security, a defence analyst pointed out.


Listing the other advantages of the single-engined Gripen, whose IN version is currently on offer to be followed by the NG (next generation) version, de la Motte pointed to its low lifecycle costs, quick turnaround time, quick engine replacement time, advanced avionics and the fact that the IAF could install a weapons suite of is choice on the aircraft.

"In terms of costs, including the life cycle cost, the Gripen is 50 percent cheaper that the other single-engined aircraft (in the fray) and 25 percent cheaper that the double-engined aircraft (in contention)," the SAAB official pointed out.

While the IAF has already begun its flight evaluation trials of the six jets in the running, it is yet to resolve the contentious issue of whether it wants a single-engined or a twin-engined aircraft.

When the IAF first floated its Request For Information (RFI), it was looking for a replacement for its aging Soviet-era Mig-21, a single engined fighter.

Of the six aircraft now in contention, only two - the Gripen and the Lockheed Martin F-16IN Super Viper - are single engined. The other four - the Boeing F/A-18 Super Hornet, the French Rafale, the Eurofighter Typhoon built by a European conglomerate and the Russian Mig-35 - are twin-engined.

The SAAB official pointed out that the Gripen was the only aircraft that provided the IAF the opportunity to select the weapons of its choice.

"With the other manufacturers, the IAF will have to take the weapons the aircraft comes with. With the Gripen, the IAF can chose from the best that is available in the international market," de la Motte maintained.

The flight trials, being conducted in humid conditions in Bangalore, desert conditions in Jaisalmer and high-altitude conditions in Leh, will conclude in March 2010. Thereafter, the field will be narrowed down to two or three aircraft, after which the price negotiations will begin, with the first of the planes arriving in 2012-13.


Eighteen of the aircraft will be purchased in flyaway condition and the remaining will be manufactured by state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) under a transfer of technology agreement.

 

[sancho]

"What we are offering is a second generation AESA (advanced extended search array radar) that incorporates a swishplate that enables it to rotate and considerably enhances its capabilities over the existing radar," Gripen International's India director Eddy de la Motte told reporters Wednesday.

"The radar will come with its software source code." ​

The software source code has been a sticky point, with at least two of the six manufacturers in the race for the IAF order, which could go up to 200 planes, expressing reservations on transferring this to India.

Interesting, but can they really provide ToT and source codes of the AESA? They are not developing it on their own and 2 times before other nations shows how dependent Sweden is from other countries. I doubt that US and LM allows that, which will reduce the chances for F16 IN.

The SAAB official pointed out that the Gripen was the only aircraft that provided the IAF the opportunity to select the weapons of its choice.

"With the other manufacturers, the IAF will have to take the weapons the aircraft comes with. With the Gripen, the IAF can chose from the best that is available in the international market," de la Motte maintained.

That means that not only US weapons could be used like it might be the case at F16IN and F18SH, but also all european and sometimes it was stated even Russian.

 

[Born In The USA]

IAF Wants Extra Radar Mode On MMRCA AESAs

For all the stated technological advancements present in the only two operational AESA radars competing in the MMRCA competition, the Indian Air Force has informed the two principle integrators (Boeing and Lockheed-Martin respectively) that radar modes available on the Northrop-Grumman AN/APG-80 radar (F-16IN) and the Raytheon AN/APG-79 (F/A-18E/F) do not include a specific one that the IAF refuses to do without: the "weather radar mode". Though both Boeing and Lockheed-Martin tried to convince the IAF that their respective radars (and integrated avionics) were built to provide data and flightpath solutions through, over or around bad weather, the IAF has insisted that it wants the AESAs offered with a traditional weather radar mode as a separate mode option. The default modes demanded by the IAF, excluding interleaved and data-fused modes, are air-to-air search, air-to-air track, ocean surface search, synthetic aperture radar (SAR) mapping, ground/sea target indicator and track and active beam mapping.

Lockheed-Martin has made it official now that the APG-80 radar will therefore undergo a certain amount of further development work to meet the IAF's requirement. This applies to Raytheon as well.

 

[warlock21]

some days back on DD News retired commodore Uday Bhaskar had said tht IAFs role in this deal is to :-

1. Make requirements.

2. Test the fighters Jets as per its req.

3. and finally submit the report to GoI.. thts it.

IAF has nothing to do with how much it will cost... and from here it comes from.

The real thing is still in the Hands of GoI... because they take the decision on the basis of:-

1. What kind of political and strategic mileage they can have from the provider country.

2. our past relations with them and our future with them.

3. Whether they can able to provide us full support in terms of ToT for development of LCA... and other such platforms..etc.

 

[Gabbar]

Another thing is that Brazil is going to buy 24 Rafaels for $7.2 Billion dollars. How the hell we suppose to get 126 in $12 Billions.

 

[Adios Amigo]

Another thing is that Brazil is going to buy 24 Rafaels for $7.2 Billion dollars. How the hell we suppose to get 126 in $12 Billions.

wat,,,,,,,,, 24 Rafaels for $7.2 Billion ,,, wat the hell is rafaels price now, has it even gone higher then raptor,, i think your figures are wrong.

 

[ISRO2]

Another thing is that Brazil is going to buy 24 Rafaels for $7.2 Billion dollars. How the hell we suppose to get 126 in $12 Billions.

Sir that might be a joke. 24 rafaels cost 7.2 billion dollars? Thats like 360 million dollars each rafael? Ha ha. Sir thats impossible.

 

[Hulk]

Last I heard Brazil was buying 100 not 24 so that might answer your question

 

[amunhotep]

But that doesn't mean they still are useful for us right? Compared to the other fighters and their capabilities the Mig is clearly inferior.

I beg your pardon ????? are you serious ????

the MiG-35 is the most superior in terms of technology among the contenders

and something tells me that you know this fact . Clearly there must be some vested interest behind your comment. let me guess , you are pushing for the Eurofighter aren't you ?????

 

[sancho]

Another thing is that Brazil is going to buy 24 Rafaels for $7.2 Billion dollars. How the hell we suppose to get 126 in $12 Billions.

36 is the least number that Brazil will procure and in such small numbers the unit price is of course higher than for 126 like in our competition. For example Australia ordered only 24 F18SH for a total cost of $4.6 billion, which means nearly $191 million each!
Anyway, the Brazilian AF has a requirement of over 100 new fighters, so there might be more optional and the fact that France offers similar ToT like they offer us, hints to a lincence production of more fighters.
Latest reports btw says, that the competition is still not really over, although the Brazilian president stated it officially and some other deals around this for some helicopters and assistance of french companies in KC390 development (transport aircraft comparable to Indo-Russian MTA) could be sealed too. But Saab and Boeing wants to make new and better offers and hopes to get back in the competition, but as independence seems to be a major requirement of Brazil it is doubtful that the F18SH and Gripen NG can provide this.

I beg your pardon ????? are you serious ????

the MiG-35 is the most superior in terms of technology among the contenders

and something tells me that you know this fact . Clearly there must be some vested interest behind your comment. let me guess , you are pushing for the Eurofighter aren't you ?????

Actually I am for Rafale, because it offers the best package, but that has nothing to do with the fact that the Mig is not a good fighter for us.
I wonder what superior techs that could be? Even compared to our actual Mig 29, it offers only AESA radar, IRST and the TVC nozzels as really new techs. The upg Mig 29 will have PESA radar and latest reports also talks of TVC, so where is the big difference? If you compare the Mig 35 with our MKI you will mainly find only a single advantage, the lower RCS because of smaller size. But if the reports of MKI upg are true, even this avantage is gone.
If Mig 35 is not even much superior to our actual fighters, how should it be better than fighters with RCS below 1, high performance AESA radars (Mig 35 AESA is only average, compared to others) and avionics, engines that provides supercruise capabilities, missiles like Meteor, more payload and weapon stations and so on.
Count on it, IAF will just upg the older Mig 29 with TVC nozzels and hopefully with the Mig 35 AESA. The only real Mig 35 we might buy, will be for IN, because the Mig 29K and KUB have already the same airframe, engine and I think IRST. They only have to upg the PESA into AESA and fit the TVC nozzels at the engine and you will have Mig 35K and KUB.

 

[BSF]

Actually I am for Rafale, because it offers the best package, but that has nothing to do with the fact that the Mig is not a good fighter for us.
I wonder what superior techs that could be? Even compared to our actual Mig 29, it offers only AESA radar, IRST and the TVC nozzels as really new techs. The upg Mig 29 will have PESA radar and latest reports also talks of TVC, so where is the big difference? If you compare the Mig 35 with our MKI you will mainly find only a single advantage, the lower RCS because of smaller size. But if the reports of MKI upg are true, even this avantage is gone.
If Mig 35 is not even much superior to our actual fighters, how should it be better than fighters with RCS below 1, high performance AESA radars (Mig 35 AESA is only average, compared to others) and avionics, engines that provides supercruise capabilities, missiles like Meteor, more payload and weapon stations and so on.
Count on it, IAF will just upg the older Mig 29 with TVC nozzels and hopefully with the Mig 35 AESA. The only real Mig 35 we might buy, will be for IN, because the Mig 29K and KUB have already the same airframe, engine and I think IRST. They only have to upg the PESA into AESA and fit the TVC nozzels at the engine and you will have Mig 35K and KUB.

So by your logic, How is Rafel better than Su 30 MKI again?
And by the way ..I too am rooting for MIG 35 (MKI version ofcourse)

 

[Born In The USA]

Super Viper: F-16IN aircrafts tailored to meet IAF's needs

Bangalore: As the race for bagging the USD 10-billion Medium Multi Role Combat Aircraft order from India hots up, US aerospace major Lockheed Martin on Monday raised its sales pitch saying its fighter plane, F-16IN, is tailored exclusively to meet the IAF's requirements.

"The F-16IN is the right choice for the Indian Air Force and is ready for integration to India's infrastructure and operations now," Jack Giese, Lockheed's International Communication Manager, told reporters in Bangalore.

IAF had recently conducted flight evaluation and performance trials in Bangalore for six foreign defence firms, including Lockheed Martin's F-16IN Super Viper, vying to bag the order for 126 MMRCAs.

The Super Viper has the most advanced technologies and capabilities available today on the international market, including the Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) Radar, net-centric warfare capability, advanced survivability features, a modern all-digital glass cockpit, Jim Benson Hedge, the pilot who has 2000 hrs of flying the F-16, said.

The radar is a revolutionary all-weather precision targeting sensor with ultra-high resolution synthetic aperture mapping and automatic terrain following and air to air tracking of multiple targets, the company said.

Benson said the fighter not only meets the IAF requirements but also exceeds some of them. "It gives a pilot more time to make the best decisions"

On the chances of winning the order, Jack said "We are extremely confident of our product".

Super Viper: F-16IN aircrafts tailored to meet IAF`s needs

 

[Tejas-MkII]

So by your logic, How is Rafel better than Su 30 MKI again?
And by the way ..I too am rooting for MIG 35 (MKI version ofcourse)

i am rooting for rafale..

because we can get technology of M-88 eco core ,which we can put in kaveri in place of kabini core..

 

[MZUBAIR]

Super Viper: F-16IN aircrafts tailored to meet IAF's needs

Bangalore: As the race for bagging the USD 10-billion Medium Multi Role Combat Aircraft order from India hots up, US aerospace major Lockheed Martin on Monday raised its sales pitch saying its fighter plane, F-16IN, is tailored exclusively to meet the IAF's requirements.

"The F-16IN is the right choice for the Indian Air Force and is ready for integration to India's infrastructure and operations now," Jack Giese, Lockheed's International Communication Manager, told reporters in Bangalore.

IAF had recently conducted flight evaluation and performance trials in Bangalore for six foreign defence firms, including Lockheed Martin's F-16IN Super Viper, vying to bag the order for 126 MMRCAs.

The Super Viper has the most advanced technologies and capabilities available today on the international market, including the Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) Radar, net-centric warfare capability, advanced survivability features, a modern all-digital glass cockpit, Jim Benson Hedge, the pilot who has 2000 hrs of flying the F-16, said.

The radar is a revolutionary all-weather precision targeting sensor with ultra-high resolution synthetic aperture mapping and automatic terrain following and air to air tracking of multiple targets, the company said.

Benson said the fighter not only meets the IAF requirements but also exceeds some of them. "It gives a pilot more time to make the best decisions"

On the chances of winning the order, Jack said "We are extremely confident of our product".

Super Viper: F-16IN aircrafts tailored to meet IAF`s needs

Not good for Pakistan, If IAF gets F-16.

 

[Tejas-MkII]

Not good for Pakistan, If IAF gets F-16.

Not good for pakistan if IAF get any of these 6 aircraft in nmubers from126-200(may be)...

---------- Post added at 12:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:24 PM ----------

Not good for Pakistan, If IAF gets F-16.

Not good for pakistan if IAF get any of these 6 aircraft in numbers from126-200(may be)...