What's new

Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

Status
Not open for further replies.
I think India will go for F-18SH. Just a guess

Yup....that is what I think to.I thought they would get either the EuroFighter or the Rafale first but once they anounced a purchase of another 50 MKI's,I knew they will not buy them.It makes no sense to buy another 126-200 aircraft of the same class as the MKI...

The Super Hornet is a superb A2G aircraft.And the engine can maybe be used for the LCA also.
 
How about purchasing mig 35s to slowly phase out the existing fleet of mig29s in service with the IAF?

Sir MRCA is not for replacing mig29s. Its for replacing old vintage jet fighters. Rafael leader because it has both navy and land version sir. Thank you.
 
Sir MRCA is not for replacing mig29s. Its for replacing old vintage jet fighters. Rafael leader because it has both navy and land version sir. Thank you.

But I think Indian Navy is already getting Mig-29K for navy. and other that F-18SH is a great plane for sea born operation as well.
 
Sir MRCA is not for replacing mig29s. Its for replacing old vintage jet fighters. Rafael leader because it has both navy and land version sir. Thank you.

It was in response to sudhir 007s post and you misunderstood. :flame:
 
How about purchasing mig 35s to slowly phase out the existing fleet of mig29s in service with the IAF?
Mig-29 & Mirage-2000 will be replacing by MCA not mmrca. I dnt think it is beneficial for us to replace 4th generation place to 4++ generation. And remember both mig & mirage going for upgradation and become 4+ gen. place so why we replace these place which has life of more then 10 to 15 yr after upgradation
 
Russian Phasotron corporation reports Sep. 17 , that it has finished the testing program for Zhuk-AE AESA radar. The detection range for a standard aerial target is 148 km and in the perspective it will be raised to 200 km. The Phasotron's General Director Victor Tishchenko said that one of the Indian MMRCA tender request is an AESA radar with 130 km detection range. So, Zhuk-AE fulfills this request, he says.

Defunct Humanity: Zhuk-AE is ready for fight

Seemingly, Zhuk-AE is the first non-american AESA radar for fighter jets ready for use. The others still remain 'paper radars' in many aspects.
 
But I think Indian Navy is already getting Mig-29K for navy. and other that F-18SH is a great plane for sea born operation as well.

Sir F-18SH is more symbol of sea born operation then land operation sir. While rafael bit better not only on land but also on sea and its new compare to F-18SH. Sir also america not giving india much in tot while rafael open to give anything to india. And sir ofcourse french more realiable then americans. So rafael seems the front runner sir.
 

18/09/2009

MOSCOW, September 17 (RIA Novosti) - Russia's Phazotron NIIR corporation said on Thursday it has developed a new-generation airborne radar for MiG-35 fighter jets which participate in the Indian fighter tender.

Six major aircraft makers - Lockheed and Boeing from the United States, Russia's MiG, which is part of the UAC, France's Dassault, Sweden's Saab and the EADS consortium of British, German, Spanish and Italian companies - are in contention to win the $10 billion contract for 126 light fighters to be supplied to the Indian Air Force.

One of the selection criteria in the tender is that the fighter's radar must have an active phased array radar with a target detection range of at least 130 kilometers (about 80 miles).

"We have met this requirement of the Indian tender and built the Zhuk-AE active phased array radar with a proven range of 148 kilometers," said Vyacheslav Tishchenko, the company's general director.

The X-band radar can track 30 aerial targets in the track-while-scan mode, and engage six targets simultaneously in the attack mode.

Tishchenko said the detection range could be increased up to 200 km (125 miles).


Russia's MiG-35 Fulcrum-F, an export version of the MiG-29M OVT is a highly maneuverable air superiority fighter, which won high international acclaim.

The fighter is powered by RD-33 OVT thrust vectoring engines. The RD-33 OVT engines provide superior maneuverability and enhance the fighter's performance in close air engagements.

The first demonstration flights of two MiG-35s in the Indian tender will be carried out in late October-early November in north-eastern India.

The aircraft will conduct live-firing tests of on-board weaponry on a testing range in southern Russia in March-April 2010.


Russian fighter jets for Indian tender to have new radar | Top Russian news and analysis online | 'RIA Novosti' newswire
 
Mind you this decision will also depend a lot on The LCA project and what engine that is using.

Will be first for the euro fighter typhoon
and then F/A-18 SH or F-16 IN (only with full tot)
And finally Rafael
Exactly, but imo the engine alone won't be such a big point because only 2 MMRCA vendors are able to provide it for LCA and it needs also AESA radar and IRST. Of course it would be an advantage for EF, or F18SH (possibly even for Gripen NG, because of the same GE414 engine), but I think ToT of more techs is the key to MMRCA.
US might provide ToT of the engine, because it is old tech and not used in their latest fighters, but will they also provide ToT of their radars, or IRST, which are latest techs?
I think EF will provide way more ToT than the Americans can, but on the other side much of it won't be proven and ready (AESA radar, a2g capabilities) and more delays is something that we can't afford when it comes to replace the Mig 21s!
We will never get full ToT of F16IN and using F16s with the same weapons against PAF F16s and pilots which knows that aircraft way more, would clearly be a disadvantage.
Yup....that is what I think to.I thought they would get either the EuroFighter or the Rafale first but once they anounced a purchase of another 50 MKI's,I knew they will not buy them.It makes no sense to buy another 126-200 aircraft of the same class as the MKI...

The Super Hornet is a superb A2G aircraft.And the engine can maybe be used for the LCA also.
If you mean weight class, the F18SH is the closest of all MMRCA contenders to MKI and not EF, or Rafale.
If F18SH wins MMRCA it will be mainly a political decision, not because we chose the best fighter that suits IAF.
F18SH is a good fighter, but it will come with the least ToT which was a main requirement, is one of the oldest designs and don't offer much more improvements. Also the costs will be very high, cause it should have the 3. highest unit cost, the maintenance of such a big fighter is expensive too and don't forget that IAF can use nearly no weapons that are in service now and that IAF has no experiance with US fighters, which means more training.
 
I think one major problem for EF would be delivery... As Saudi order is also to be completed and there are news that KSA asking for TOT (How much don't know?). Rafale on other hand can be procured on fast track basis along with F-18SH.
 
Hi Haanzo, let me start my answer with this
IT IS A MULTI ROLE FIGHTERit has a wide weapons choice similar to paveway series
I never denied that MKI is a multi role aircraft, but I think you will agree with me, that it doesn't mean MKI is equaly good in all roles right?
All MMRCA competitors are multi role aircrafts, but with different focus and capabilities on a2a, or a2g role. EF, Mig 35 and also the MKI are mainly designed for a2a combats (maneuverability, long range radar and weapons) with added a2g capabilities, whereas the F18Sh is clearly the least capable when it comes to maneuverability but maybe the best in a2g (weapon package, payload, specialised avionics and defense systems, numbers of a2g weapons that can be carried). So beeing a multi role aircraft doesn't mean MKI is as good as F18SH, or Rafale in a2g role.
You mentioned the Kab series that are guided bombs, comparable to paveway, or AASM. But these are only available in 500Kg, or higher weight versions for MKI, which limits the use and carriage.
MKI can carry 6 x Kab 500, or 3 x heavier once, in comparison the Rafale up to 5 and 3, the F18SH even 7 and 4, but the real difference lies in the field of smaller bombs of 100 - 400Kg. The MKI can carry a huge load of up to 32 of them on triple pylons, but only dumb bombs, whereas the Rafale, or other western fighters can use smaller guided AASM/Paveway bombs aswell (Rafale can carry up to 12 of them on triple pylons).
For heavy bombings with dumb bombs, or with heavy weight guided bombs the MKI is a great fighter, nobody denies that. But with the disadvantage of larger RCS and the lack of smaller precision guided bombs in any deep penetration strike mission behind enemy lines, striks on small ground targets, or SEAD the Rafale would be more preferable!
That's why I said the mix of MKI and Rafale would give IAF different fighters with different capabilities and weapons, for different roles and would not limit them by having similar fighters with similar capabilities and the same weapons.
I agree to the rcs point but your figures are not accurate do you know that RAM coatings are used on the MKI and the rcs is close to 2.7-3 sq m ----by your words you dont believe russians use ram coatings---wake up and smell the coffee.
I know the MKI uses RAM coating, but if you search the net to compare RCSs, the most common number for Su27/30, or F15 size fighters is 10 - 13 m². RAM coating can reduce the RCS, but I doubt that MKIs RCS is reduced to the numbers that you provided, because the Su 34 is claimed with a RCS of 1 - 3 m². It uses RAM coating aswell, but also an improved airframe designs to reduce RCS, which the MKI doesn't have. Anyway if you have a more detailed sources about MKI and it's RCS, I am always happy about new infos.
mig-35 or rafale ---the choice is left for the iaf but i would personally like the rafale but mig-35 would be the fastest and the cheapest chioce -----HOW??...lets say they have used mig-29 for 20 years and they know the platform very well so tactics and ease of integration will be the highest ,the existing weapons CAN BE USED
Of course the choice is left to IAF, but Mig 35, or Rafale means to me to pretty different aircrafts!
One upg a2a fighter with some added a2g capabilities that our MKI already provides, so chosing more MKIs instead of new Mig 35 would be better the better choice. The Rafale instead is a new designed aircraft with focus on low RCS and multi role capabilities! Very maneuverable through canard design and a good t/w ratio, good a2a weapons, high payload, many weapon stations and good a2g weapons, combined with latest avionics and defense systems.
In a2a, imo it will be pretty comparable to the Mig even without TVC, but in a2g it is clearly superior.
Btw, the Rafale was designed with the Mirage 2000 as the base and can also use all weapons that our M2K, or Jags already uses + the same Mica and AASM that the upg M2K will get. So when it comes to integrating the Rafale into IAF, I doubt that it will take much more training, or additional costs for weapons. Not to forget that we already co-develop the Topsight HMS with France and that they offered to integrate a co-developed Kaveri-Snecma engine into the Rafale. Advantages that no other vendor can offer and means more indigenous techs that can be inclouded!
 
Russian fighter jets for Indian tender to have new radar
68b48429d0ef5bf2e298e37a3201bfa5.jpg
MOSCOW, September 17 (RIA Novosti) - Russia's Phazotron NIIR corporation said on Thursday it has developed a new-generation airborne radar for MiG-35 fighter jets which participate in the Indian fighter tender.

Six major aircraft makers - Lockheed and Boeing from the United States, Russia's MiG, which is part of the UAC, France's Dassault, Sweden's Saab and the EADS consortium of British, German, Spanish and Italian companies - are in contention to win the $10 billion contract for 126 light fighters to be supplied to the Indian Air Force.

One of the selection criteria in the tender is that the fighter's radar must have an active phased array radar with a target detection range of at least 130 kilometers (about 80 miles).

"We have met this requirement of the Indian tender and built the Zhuk-AE active phased array radar with a proven range of 148 kilometers," said Vyacheslav Tishchenko, the company's general director.

The X-band radar can track 30 aerial targets in the track-while-scan mode, and engage six targets simultaneously in the attack mode.

Tishchenko said the detection range could be increased up to 200 km (125 miles).

Russia's MiG-35 Fulcrum-F, an export version of the MiG-29M OVT is a highly maneuverable air superiority fighter, which won high international acclaim.

The fighter is powered by RD-33 OVT thrust vectoring engines. The RD-33 OVT engines provide superior maneuverability and enhance the fighter's performance in close air engagements.

The first demonstration flights of two MiG-35s in the Indian tender will be carried out in late October-early November in north-eastern India.

The aircraft will conduct live-firing tests of on-board weaponry on a testing range in southern Russia in March-April 2010.
 
Is there any date set to announce actual contract? Asking out of curiosity.
 
check this out
September 17, 2009, (Sawf News) - As the MMRCA competition heats up, Phazotron NIIR corporation has offered a 52 km increase in the detection range of its Zhuk AE AESA fitted on its contender in the race - MiG-35.

The increased range will likely make the MiG-35's radar the most powerful amidst the MMRCA contenders - Boeing Super Hornet F/A-18E/F, Lockheed Martin Super Viper F-16IN, Saab AB's JS-39 Gripen, Dassault Rafale, Eurofighter GmbH's Typhoon, and RSK MiG-35.

The MMRCA tender calls for a minimum detection range of at least 130 kilometers (about 80 miles).

"We have met this requirement of the Indian tender and built the Zhuk-AE active phased array radar with a proven range of 148 kilometers," said Vyacheslav Tishchenko, the company's general director.

The Zhuk-AE can detect aerial targets at ranges up to 148 km (head on) in both look-up or look down modes. Look-up tail-on detection range is 50km (40km look down). The radar can track 30 aerial targets in the track-while-scan mode, and engage six targets simultaneously in the attack mode.

Vyacheslav Tishchenko, the company's general director, says the detection range of the radar could be increased from 148 km to 200 km.

A Phazotron official I spoke with at Aero India 2009 in February had pointed out that the Zhuk-AE's range could be extended dramatically by locating it further back in the nose of the MiG-35, taking advantage of the increased cross section to add TR modules and increase the radiated energy.

The publicly acknowledged range of the AN/APG 79 AESA that equips the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet is 160 km. It is highly likely the AN/APG 79 AESA has a higher detection range than what is publicly acknowledged, but whether it goes up to 200 km is moot.

Compared to the MiG-35 the F/A-18E has a narrower nose cross section precluding the use of a bigger array. It is unlikely that the detection range of AN/APG 79 AESA could be extended because of antenna aperture and cooling constraints.

...And btwn the russians are also going for an advanced version- Zhuk ASE-aiming for much better better performance than APG-79 AND APG-81 for the Sukhois.

Russia claims 200 km range for MiG-35's Phazotron Zhuk AE

check out the comments in the given link too

:cheers:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Back
Top Bottom