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Unveling Rafale India's Website !

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The site also has some great videos !


Finally!

Check out this video:

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Hey sancho can we find the specification of the Rafale meant for India on this website ???? I f yes where ?
 
BAE signals willingness to drop Typhoon price

...When pressed on whether this would include reducing the price, Mr King confirmed that it was one of the options being considered....

...However, analysts and industry executives said any technical advantage the Typhoon might enjoy over the Rafale was not enough to outweigh the difference in price plus any other sweeteners, such as more generous technology transfer agreements, offered by France.

John Louth, analyst at the think tank, Royal United Services Institute, said that the companies&#8217; bid was too technical and lacked the grand military vision of that of the French: &#8220;It was a bit like bringing a knife to a gunfight.&#8221;

According to Douglas Barrie of the International Institute for Strategic Studies, a key issue for buyers was whether the supplier would support it over the jet fighter&#8217;s 30-year life by offering technology upgrades and the latest weaponry.

BAE signals willingness to drop Typhoon price - FT.com


Hey sancho can we find the specification of the Rafale meant for India on this website ???? I f yes where ?

Not yet, just general infos. Price negotiations will just start now and certain techs and capabilities might be added or removed. Air & Cosmos provided a list of possible techs and weapons for our Rafales. I posted them on the last page.

When we get a better picture what the Mirage 2000 upgrade will include, we might have a good idea about Rafale as well.
 
^^^
Yeah i am hearing its almost certain that atleast a couple of israeli components will be in indian version of Rafale especially the latest lightening G4 pod.
 
Hey can anyone answer this question...

Is M88-4E engine gonna be used on Indian Rafales ?
 
Finally!

Check out this video:

[video]<object classid="clsid:D27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-444553540000" width="1024" height="768"><param name="movie" value="http://www.rafale.co.in/index.php?option=com_webplayer&view=player" /><param name="allowfullscreen" value="true" /><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always" /><param name="flashvars" value="baseJ=http://www.rafale.co.in/&type=youtube&video=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlvIbwQAhPw&streamer=0&preview=http://img.youtube.com/vi/YlvIbwQAhPw/0.jpg&" /><object type="application/x-shockwave-flash" data="http://www.rafale.co.in/index.php?option=com_webplayer&view=player" width="1024" height="768"><param name="movie" value="http://www.rafale.co.in/index.php?option=com_webplayer&view=player" /><param name="allowfullscreen" value="true" /><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always" /><param name="flashvars" value="baseJ=http://www.rafale.co.in/&type=youtube&video=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlvIbwQAhPw&streamer=0&preview=http://img.youtube.com/vi/YlvIbwQAhPw/0.jpg&" /><iframe title="YouTube video player" width="1024" height="768" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/YlvIbwQAhPw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe></object></object>[/video]

Or this -- some good footage !!

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BAE signals willingness to drop Typhoon price - FT.com

Not yet, just general infos. Price negotiations will just start now and certain techs and capabilities might be added or removed. Air & Cosmos provided a list of possible techs and weapons for our Rafales. I posted them on the last page.

When we get a better picture what the Mirage 2000 upgrade will include, we might have a good idea about Rafale as well.

How can a bidder just lower the price after bids have been opened and be in contention again ? or Is it to put pressure on Rafale to bow down of the process ?
 
A dogfight over Delhi
February 6, 2012 7:59 pm

By James Lamont in New Delhi and James Boxell in Paris
A dogfight over Delhi

Defence and diplomacy: the French Rafale jet fighter (left) and the rival Eurofighter model (right)

Sir Stephen Dalton, the UK&#8217;s chief of air staff, hurtled down the runway behind the controls of a Russian-designed Sukhoi-30 at the Kalaikunda air base in West Bengal. The deafening roar of the engines of the mainstay of the Indian air force swept over a small band of observers gathered just over a year ago in the rising tropical heat.

Minutes later, a Royal Air Force Eurofighter Typhoon built by a British, German, Italian and Spanish consortium took to the skies as part of a staged dogfight with India&#8217;s French Mirages and Russian aircraft, designed to impress officials seeking to modernise an ageing fleet. Its near-vertical take-off was met with awed admiration.

Within the sights of Sir Stephen, a veteran of the first Gulf war &#8211; as well as his political masters and hundreds of aerospace executives &#8211; was one of the world&#8217;s most sought-after jet fighter contracts. London, Paris and Washington were all vying to re-equip the world&#8217;s largest democracy with 126 fighters &#8211; about one-10th of the force &#8211; seeing it as a chance to put a seal on a defining bilateral relationship of the 21st century.

Worth up to $20bn, the deal to supply India &#8211; with its fast-growing economy and geopolitical status, and concern about the threat from Pakistan to the north and China to the east &#8211; offered a European defence establishment suffering shrinking military budgets back home the chance to reshape the industry landscape.
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India move offers lifeline for Rafale jet

But the mock battle was the closest the Typhoon came to the target. New Delhi last week chose Dassault&#8217;s Rafale over the Eurofighter at the end of an eight-year competition. The significance of the agreement is being compared to that of the UK&#8217;s record al-Yamama deal with Saudi Arabia, signed in the 1980s. Optimists say it could be signed within eight months, joining a $9.3bn agreement for France to supply India with two nuclear plants and another to build it a modern conventional submarine fleet worth $4bn.

&#8220;This is a major win for France, and a major loss for the UK ... French political backing has been essential in strengthening the French bid and the Rafale win is therefore also a major victory for President Nicolas Sarkozy,&#8221; says Endre Lunde, an aerospace and defence consultant at IHS Jane&#8217;s, a defence consultancy.

Rafale&#8217;s selection is a bitter disappointment for all four nations in the consortium, and highlights Indian doubts about a pan-European partnership at a time of financial and political strain on the continent.

It has a particular sting for David Cameron. The UK prime minister identified the Indian market as one of the most important for Britain&#8217;s exporters &#8211; but this opening gambit to his premiership has shown scant return even though accompanied by £1bn of aid in the next four years.

The decision also deals a blow to Mr Cameron&#8217;s attempt to style himself a champion of trade missions led by the private sector &#8211; unlike France&#8217;s dirigiste approach &#8211; and of Britain&#8217;s dwindling manufacturing base.

Eurofighter&#8217;s backers thought it the lead contender, bringing more advanced technology and strategic clout than the Rafale, which had not been sold outside France. Their confidence soared after US rivals &#8211; Boeing&#8217;s F/A-18 Super Hornet and Lockheed Martin&#8217;s F-16 Super Viper &#8211; were knocked out of the highly secretive medium multi-role combat aircraft contest last year.
Triumph of versatility on display in the skies over Libya

Within the UK defence industry the Indian fighter-jet tender was seen as Eurofighter&#8217;s to lose, writes Carola Hoyos. The Typhoon was seen as technologically superior, more thoroughly tested by several national air forces, and came with the political clout of four European governments &#8211; Germany, the UK, Italy and Spain.

But analysts who studied the relative technical abilities of the two jets were not so sure. &#8220;Any suggestion that Rafale is a poor cousin to Typhoon is an oversimplification,&#8221; says Douglas Barrie of the IISS, a London-based think-tank. &#8220;The gap between the two aircraft is not very big at all.&#8221;

Both jets were conceived in the early 1980s when the demand was for jet fighters that could, in true &#8220;Top Gun&#8221; style, shoot Soviet aircraft out of the sky. Since then &#8211; as shown in campaigns from Serbia to Iraq and Afghanistan &#8211; air-to-ground combat has become far more important. The question has been how quickly jets such as the Typhoon and Rafale could be turned into more versatile fighters.

The answer, say analysts, came in the Libyan conflict. The Rafale, which has a larger array of air-to-ground weapons, was able to strike moving targets on the ground and fight incoming fire. For all its nimbleness, the Typhoon could only drop larger weapons, creating more collateral damage.

Radar was another consideration. Neither Typhoon nor Rafale has the most modern system available, though both camps are working on it.

In fact, the only really advanced radar systems available are those made by the US. Analysts say that the fact India discarded a US option suggests the political willingness of a partner to supply future weapons and systems upgrades, regardless of politics, is of key importance. Similarly, industry experts say that the shortcomings of the Typhoon&#8217;s weapons systems exposed in Libya could be fixed &#8211; if the political will and funding is there.

The question within the Typhoon camp is whether there was anything other than a lower price that the French offered. That concern among senior members of the Eurofighter team was fuelled when &#8211; most unusually &#8211; New Delhi did not come back with technical follow-up questions to their offer. Others, however, say the Eurofighter team simply mishandled the bid, focusing too narrowly on technical details.

In London and Berlin, contractors salivated at the idea of harnessing via industrial partnership a greater share of India&#8217;s $36bn annual defence budget &#8211; one of the world&#8217;s largest, and probably a third of China&#8217;s. A big European purchase would shift India away from reliance on Russia and show the US was not the only alternative as Delhi sought to rearm itself in light of mounting concerns about a more assertive Beijing.

The executives of the consortium partners were convinced Eurofighter offered a superior so-called &#8220;4th generation&#8221; aircraft suited to aerial combat and able to strike targets on the ground. They were also confident they had priced it competitively, in spite of some analysts&#8217; claims that the Rafale was up to 10 per cent cheaper.

But they overlooked Indian misgivings about security of supply for an aircraft built by four countries across a continent in financial turmoil and amid worries about the aircraft&#8217;s radar capabilities. &#8220;The upside is that Eurofighter delivers you four countries as strategic partners,&#8221; says Douglas Barrie of the London-based International Institute for Strategic Studies, but &#8220;the down side is they have to negotiate with each other before they negotiate with you&#8221;.

. . .

They also underestimated the government-to-government nature of India&#8217;s arms dealings; its deep-seated fears over its energy vulnerabilities; and its hunt for a bargain. &#8220;Patience is a key aspect of doing business in India, as is price,&#8221; says Gunjan Bagla of California-based Amritt Inc, an advisory service. &#8220;The Indian approach is that so long as a product meets the minimum threshold of performance, then it seeks the best value for money. This should come as no surprise.&#8221;

Eurofighter executives want a &#8220;detailed explanation&#8221; from India&#8217;s Ministry of Defence of how calculations were made. They doubt that Dassault, which conducted its campaign from within the grey concrete walls of the French embassy, can deliver on its promises in terms of price and schedule.

Meantime, there is grim denial that the contest is over, and that India has overlooked a partnership that they say includes two of the more robust European economies, Germany and the UK, in favour of one with a country recently stripped of its triple A credit status. One veteran of the Eurofighter campaign vows not to give up until India makes the first downpayment to the French, which might not be for years, claiming that arms deals of this magnitude are in play &#8220;until money is in the bank&#8221;. BAE, one of the Eurofighter group partners, yesterday signalled that it was prepared to drop the price.

. . .

Delhi&#8217;s version of events is that, in an era of corruption scandals and an activist Supreme Court, it has played the selection process entirely by the book. Defence officials say that, once the two models passed technical trials, the deciding factor was always going to be which was offered at the lowest price. They say the choice of Rafale, which some say came in $5m cheaper per aircraft, was one of the cleanest decisions in India&#8217;s arms procurement history, with the minimum of political interference.

Defence experts, however, say other factors came into play in the form of investment agreements, whereby they were required to invest half the value of the contract back into India, and technology transfer. &#8220;The deal is beyond the aircraft,&#8221; says Uday Bhaskar, a Delhi-based defence analyst. &#8220;If I was in the shoes of France looking at India, I would go beyond the fighter to the next big-ticket items of civil nuclear power and the [nuclear] submarine arena.&#8221;

Bharat Karnad, a defence expert at the Centre for Policy Research in Delhi, says a likely bargaining chip was the prospect of the use of nuclear testing facilities in Bordeaux to shore up the thermonuclear shortcomings of India&#8217;s nuclear arsenal. Such collaboration would give them more confidence in their own deterrent in the long-running standoff with nuclear-armed Pakistan. &#8220;The Indian government can&#8217;t be blamed for misleading anyone. It was government-to-government from the very beginning.We wanted to know what things we would get with the fighter,&#8221; he says.

Competitors suspect the nuclear element played a part in the decision. &#8220;Dassault got very aggressive on price and then Sarkozy rounded out the deal at the very end, possibly with some side-deal involving nuclear energy,&#8221; one German official says.

Mr Sarkozy, months away from a presidential election that promises to be a bitter fight, and Dassault are quietly triumphant. He has underlined his determination by saying the final negotiations had &#8220;the full support of the French authorities&#8221; and would include technology transfers &#8220;guaranteed&#8221; by the state.

Two years ago, even sceptical senior Indian diplomats expressed pleasure at a visit by Mr Sarkozy that placed nuclear energy at the centre of French engagement. Mr Sarkozy appeared determined to leverage the loyalty Paris earned in 1998 by not showing opprobrium at Delhi&#8217;s nuclear tests, which circumvented the nuclear non-proliferation treaty.

More recently, stalled deals in Brazil and the United Arab Emirates had put Dassault under intense pressure to give the Indians an attractive price, particularly on the lifetime cost of supporting and upgrading the aircraft. Gérard Longuet, defence minister, threatened to end Rafale production unless a foreign sale was secured.

&#8220;Sarko is willing to give them whatever [technology] they want,&#8221; says a French defence industry executive. &#8220;It&#8217;s fair to say the technology has been around a while now so is not quite leading-edge. Remember we were talking about selling the Rafale to [Muammer] Gaddafi in Libya, so there are no qualms really.&#8221;

Internal critiques on how the deal was lost will almost certainly heap blame on Germany &#8211; and, in some quarters, deepen existing regret that the UK, India&#8217;s former colonial master, did not take the lead role in a more dynamic bid.

The German-led bid was excessively technical and lacked glossy display of what the Typhoon could do in conflicts, according to one critic. While Dassault's bid was captured in 20 pages, Eurofighter&#8217;s ran to 150.

&#8220;The German government was very German. It helped as best it thought it could,&#8221; explains one Berlin official. &#8220;But it was always trammelled by German public aversion to arms sales, and by the fact that it doesn&#8217;t pursue a statist industrial policy like Paris ... The fact that some countries do packages and the Germans don&#8217;t is a fact you have to accept.&#8221;

Yet the most outspoken criticism has come from analysts who believe that India should leap straight to 5th generation &#8220;stealth&#8221; fighters with Russian Pak-Fa and American F-35 and F-22 fighters.

&#8220;It&#8217;s a terrible deal,&#8221; says Ajai Shukla, defence columnist for India&#8217;s Business Standard newspaper and a fierce critic of India&#8217;s sluggish procurement processes.

&#8220;The air force has been tempted into buying an outdated fighter. We should be matching our capabilities against China. Our military advantage over China is our air power.&#8221;

Additional reporting by Gerrit Wiesmann and Carola Hoyo

A dogfight over Delhi - FT.com
 
^^^
Yeah i am hearing its almost certain that atleast a couple of israeli components will be in indian version of Rafale especially the latest lightening G4 pod.

Actually there are not much that it might get, other than Litening pod. The G4 also was co-developed by the US if I remember correctly, so would need US approval again.


Hey can anyone answer this question...

Is M88-4E engine gonna be used on Indian Rafales ?

It's the M88 2-E4, an upgraded version of the current M88-2. Similar thrust, but more cost-effective and with a longer life.


How can a bidder just lower the price after bids have been opened and be in contention again ? or Is it to put pressure on Rafale to bow down of the process ?

That's often the case in such competitions, Dassault is reported to do the same in Swiss currently, but in both cases the chances to change the decisions are low. In MMRCA maybe even lower with the behaviour of the British now!
 
IDSA (Institute for Defence Studies and Analyses) COMMENT

Rafale Wins the MMRCA Competition

The French Dassault Rafale has reportedly won the coveted contract for 126 MMRCA on the basis of its price being lower than the Eurofighter Typhoon. It is still early days, however, as months of detailed negotiations would inevitably follow before such a complex and high priced contract is finally signed...

Rafale Wins the MMRCA Competition | Institute for Defence Studies and Analyses
 
Actually there are not much that it might get, other than Litening pod. The G4 also was co-developed by the US if I remember correctly, so would need US approval again.




It's the M88 2-E4, an upgraded version of the current M88-2. Similar thrust, but more cost-effective and with a longer life.




That's often the case in such competitions, Dassault is reported to do the same in Swiss currently, but in both cases the chances to change the decisions are low. In MMRCA maybe even lower with the behaviour of the British now!


I believe the M88-3 (that produces 90KN of thrust) is the engine speculated to be on the IAF Rafales. The engine has already been tested so by the time IAF receives first deliveries in 2014-5 the engine should be more than ready to be installed. The IAF are looking for a highly customised " MKIsation " on the Rafale with the latest and best possible tech on the market. Such as HMDS, Colour wide-angle HUDs, customised weapons package, customised EW suite, customised avionics etc so will differ from any versions of Rafales currently built.
 
I believe the M88-3 (that produces 90KN of thrust) is the engine speculated to be on the IAF Rafales. The engine has already been tested so by the time IAF receives first deliveries in 2014-5 the engine should be more than ready to be installed. The IAF are looking for a highly customised " MKIsation " on the Rafale with the latest and best possible tech on the market. Such as HMDS, Colour wide-angle HUDs, customised weapons package, customised EW suite, customised avionics etc so will differ from any versions of Rafales currently built.
You've got any source for the above claims.
Especially 'MKIsation'. Whatever it means.
 
Finally!

Check out this video:

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Pretty generic marketing vid unfortunately. No India-specific reference, you'd think for a possibly $20 BN deal these guys could deliver a custimedsed, personalised video (Same goes for all MMRCA participants).
 
You've got any source for the above claims.
Especially 'MKIsation'. Whatever it means.

Not as of yet as the final configuration for Rafale IAF gets is still tbc but it is only natural given the IAF's history and doctrine, almost every purchase of theirs be it fighters or transports have a high degree of customisation (M2k UPG, MIG-29UPG, C-130,SU-30 etc). When the IAF recieves their first batch 2014-5 most of these techs will be readily available and readily offered by Dassualt (no doubt ALREADY offered as sweeteners to help clinch the deal). Not to mention many of these were stipulated in RFI to be able to be fitted on IAF versions.


+ IAF/IN has supplied BHEL IFF to LM/Boeing for C-130-30J/P-8I.
 
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