Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[sancho]

The question is what is more important for GoI/MoD, the requirements of our forces or the requirements of the industry, because that might be the important factors![/QUOTE]

How can you say that we are compromising when both the planes have been selected by IAF ?

Sorry, missed your post.

Because IAF have to compromise in terms of capability if MoD selects EF, until we paid a lot of money to make it more multi role capable and besides money that requires time! To be as capable as Rafale F3+ by the end of the year, the EF needs at least till 2018!

- 250Kg LGB addition is on the way
- AESA radar demonstrator only by 2013
- AESA radar with A2A modes only from 2015 onwards
- CFTs must be developed to use bunker busters or cruise missiles
- PGM or ARM must be added to do SEAD
- Anti ship missile must be added for maritime attack
- EWS must be upgraded
- recon pod must be added

 

[WAR-rior]

Too many damn trolls having a blast here haters to the extreme unreal give it a rest guys don't you people have anything better to do in life then come on this site talk s__t just rem you are on a Pakistani site not a indian one. Which ever fighter india chooses its good for them and best of luck but no need to talk rubish about PAF it is a good AF and you all know it i mean really its getting old now and all this disrespect and hate towards our nation and armed forces won't be tolerated at all cost stop this BS .

Shaant gadadhaari bheem. Shaant. take a chill pill.

these replies are for the article and not the air force per se.

 

[Storm Force]

Typhoon would be ideal to take on PLAAF over the Himlayers ie high altitude FAST AGILE long range BVR FIGHTER to take on chinease flankers & FC20 IN LARGE nos. The combo over SU30MKI & TYPHOON. would be nightmare even for hundreds of J11 SU30 J10... in any iaf v plaaf war INDIAS role will be pure defense in nature

For PAF v IAF is all RAFALE territory. The french fighter is front foot strike. steath and electronic warefare at low levels delivering devastating strike punches in a OFFENSIVE WAR.

For strking at PAF deep into PAK hinterland the RAFALE & SU3OMKI combo wud be deadly...

which is mmrca for dealing with china threat or PAF war situation.

 

[Pfpilot]

It should be really interesting as to how the Su-30MKI and Eurofighter co-exist. Essentially the IAF chose the aircraft that most closely replicates the capabilities of the sukhois and has the least to offer in terms of multirole capability. Ideally, the Rafale would have been the better option, but inability of the French to offer anything at a price, even remotely close to market value, has resulted in both India and France ending up with less than optimal results.
Having said that, I believe the Eurofighter to be the most advanced and capable aircraft of the bunch under consideration, but its strength lies in it's air to air capabilities. The IAF is going to be a very "air superiority heavy" fighting force for the foreseeable future, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the IAF looking for a more dedicated strike aircraft in the next few years.

 

[JonAsad]

MMRCA is becoming a Hoax-

 

[ApparentRaceTraitor]

It should be really interesting as to how the Su-30MKI and Eurofighter co-exist. Essentially the IAF chose the aircraft that most closely replicates the capabilities of the sukhois and has the least to offer in terms of multirole capability. Ideally, the Rafale would have been the better option, but inability of the French to offer anything at a price, even remotely close to market value, has resulted in both India and France ending up with less than optimal results.
Having said that, I believe the Eurofighter to be the most advanced and capable aircraft of the bunch under consideration, but its strength lies in it's air to air capabilities. The IAF is going to be a very "air superiority heavy" fighting force for the foreseeable future, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the IAF looking for a more dedicated strike aircraft in the next few years.

Agreed on the A2A bit, though supposedly the A2G tech bit is in the maturing stage, it would be interesting to see how that turns out. Personally I'd love the IAF to have dedicated squadrons of Strike Eagles or Fullbacks for the A2G role, but then again, if wishes were fishes......

 

[sancho]

No decision yet for $11 bn India fighter jet deal

14 Jan, 2012, 0620 hrs IST, Reuters

India has no timetable for the hotly awaited decision to award its $11 billion fighter jet deal, a defence ministry official said on Friday, and he denied reports that the government had contacted the constructors...

ReutersAero ReutersAerospaceNews

Indian spokesman is denying a report that #Eurofighter won #MMRCA on price as "completely wrong" - the wait continues.. // #Rafale

Twitter

 

[sancho]

@ Storm Force

That's a strange conclusion, especially since you pointed out the right things:

EF =

high altitude FAST AGILE long range BVR FIGHTER

=> just like MKI!

So adding the same capabilities agains PLAAF won't make IAF more capable, especially when we take to account the numerical superiority as you did, because IAF won't go on 1 on 1 fights against them. You need to take the fighters out "before" they take off, to even the chances, therfore deep strikes against their air bases are important and in this field Rafale is clearly superior to EF, like you mentioned as well:

The french fighter is front foot strike. steath and electronic warefare at low levels delivering devastating strike punches in a OFFENSIVE WAR.

PAF on the other hand is numerically and technologically behind IAF anyway and most main targets are in close distance, so even a less multi role capable EF would be useful providing CAS to ground forces. That's why it will be less of a problem that EF is not as capable and developed like Rafale against PAF, than it would be against PLAAF and since MMRCAs are primeraly meant for fighting Chinese forces, the advantages Rafale offers today are tactically more important.

 

[sancho]

Rafale Support Costs Reduced as Thales Signs New Contract

January 13, 2012, 10:55 AM

Thales signed a fixed-price availability contract with the French ministry of defense for support of the Rafale fighter. The company is the last of the three big Rafale contractors to agree to a long-term partnership deal for support. Dassault signed a 10-year agreement in 2008, and engine supplier Snecma followed with a five-year agreement in 2010...

...Merry Michaux, the company’s managing director for military support, said the new contract’s “innovative concepts and collaborative working methods...will make a significant contribution to optimizing availability of the Rafale fleet and bringing down the aircraft’s cost per flying hour.” Thales said it would propose similar contracts for other equipment types and aircraft...

Rafale Support Costs Reduced as Thales Signs New Contract | Aviation International News

 

[SQ8]

PAF on the other hand is numerically and technologically behind IAF anyway and most main targets are in close distance, so even a less multi role capable EF would be useful providing CAS to ground forces. That's why it will be less of a problem that EF is not as capable and developed like Rafale against PAF, than it would be against PLAAF and since MMRCAs are primeraly meant for fighting Chinese forces, the advantages Rafale offers today are tactically more important.

I dont think you even need the MMRCA against the PAF.
IAF's "second line" forces are enough.. such as the Jaguars, M2K's and Mig-29's.. given a punch up by the MKI's.
The MMRCA's can sit quietly at the side for the PLAAF.

 

[sancho]

I dont think you even need the MMRCA against the PAF.
IAF's "second line" forces are enough.. such as the Jaguars, M2K's and Mig-29's.. given a punch up by the MKI's.
The MMRCA's can sit quietly at the side for the PLAAF.

That's a different point (that I purposly left out), I was only talking about the capabilities of EF and Rafale in relation to the tactical scenarios in hypothetical wars against Pakistan or China.
But yes and IAF is not upgrading these fighters with a lot of punch for no reason. All Mig 29 squads are now even concentrated towards western borders, which gives operational advantages, but also says something about who they might fight.

 

[SQ8]

That's a different point (that I purposly left out), I was only talking about the capabilities of EF and Rafale in relation to the tactical scenarios in hypothetical wars against Pakistan or China.
But yes and IAF is not upgrading these fighters with a lot of punch for no reason. All Mig 29 squads are now even concentrated towards western borders, which gives operational advantages, but also says something about who they might fight.

Exactly.. in a way if the IAF makes a statement by keeping the MMRCA away from the west, it would break any (even if feeble) attempt by Pakistan to suggest that the west is equipping India for war against Pakistan.
The "fame" of the MMRCA deal then would continue to focus on being an upgrade of India's abilities.
While the other updates to its fangs against its western foe will never be perceived as threatening.

Moreover, the sort of battlezone India may have to face in the north is a lot more difficult, requiring much more out of a strike asset such as range and the ability to fight in a dense air defense ground environment.
Compared to what is waiting north.. the western border is a cakewalk.. and best left to the less capable(but more than the threat from the west) equipment.

 

[sancho]

The "fame" of the MMRCA deal then would continue to focus on being an upgrade of India's abilities.
While the other updates to its fangs against its western foe will never be perceived as threatening.

The problem is this "fame" makes MMRCA look like much more as it is, when you look at it from IAF point of view, it's nothing else than a modernisation of the fleet, just like the upgrades of M2K or Mig 29, the difference is only, that they can't upgrade the Mig 21s anymore and therefor has to replace them. So when we consider the upgrades just as a modernisation and not a threat to Pakistan, we should do it with the few MMMRCA squads that will replace some Mig 21 on western borders too. But that's not like the public takes it and that's not like the forces will present it to the public (Indian forces as well!), because only when there is a certain fear, they can ask for more weapons and techs. The same reason why there are always news in Indian media or interviews with Indian defence officials when PAF gets F16s or JFT, although that's also just part of their modernisation plans.

 

[Yeti]

No decision yet for $11 bn India fighter jet deal - The Economic Times


India has no timetable for the hotly awaited decision to award its $11 billion fighter jet deal, a defence ministry official said on Friday, and he denied reports that the government had contacted the constructors.

Two European contenders are left in the race to sell India 126 fighter jets, in what will be one of the world's biggest arms contracts, and help revamp the country's creaking defence equipment in line with its rising global clout.

"We don't know when the announcement is going to happen, so there is no point speculating when it will happen," the official, who did not wish to be named, told Reuters.

Still in the fray are Eurofighter, which makes the Typhoon fighter jet and is a four-nation consortium of EADS, representing Germany and Spain, Britain's BAE Systems and Italy's Finmeccanica.

Their competitor is France's Dassault, which makes the Rafale plane. American, Russian and Swedish bids were rejected in April last year.

Earlier this week some sections of the Indian media carried a report that the Eurofighter Typhoon may have emerged as the lowest bidder and that representatives of the contractors would have been called by the defence ministry on Thursday.

The official said that no representative of any company had been called by the government.

The government opened the bids of the two competitors in November 2011. It was expected to take about two to three weeks to pick a winner.

 

[rockstarIN]

One of the most important point is left out here in case of Rafale, which is the weapon package..

As per M2k upgrade deal we are paying 1.9 million Euros per MICA missile, that too for 450 nos for 52 M2ks.

Means 8.7 missiles for one M2k, so given the same equation we need 1090 missile for Rafale...means $2.5 billion only required for BVR missiles apart from any other a2g weapons.