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Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

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OMG! Your currency decreased in value by 50% over 9 years. That's like 6-7% per year, which is the same as India's GDP growth rate. In other words, India hasn't even grown much economically at all over the past 9 years. It's just a shrewed game of fake numbers and talking up India as a high-growth economy when it isn't at all.

Now you guys are totally screwed because you've been provoking China for the past 3 years, but now China is WAYYYYY further ahead than you militarily. Your economy is hardly growing and domestic unrest is increasing. You're getting shafted by arms dealers everywhere and even Russia has abandoned you in favor of Pakistan.

Okie since ur from mainland i will make it simple why price gone up.

We went to these fighters mall looking for some fighters like Mirages.. and all.

we saw a guy and asked 'how much"? He said 35 ..we said "how about 30"?

He then said NOOOOO... the longest No u will ever hear. He said " i cnt give 30 if i give 30... tommorow i close down!!!.

Then we said " give us a deal on the fighter man". He said "1 sec , i talk to my boss .. he came back and said " you seem like nice guy, i give u best price. 34.50 ... we said its just .50 discount..

He replied .50 is lot of money ...you save .50 here and go somewhere and save another .50 , then its 1. thennnn u take ur 1 and go to somewhere else and buy something else.

We said we dont want it and we are leaving and he then said "hey, be a man , do the right thing", maybe u dont buy the fighter right now and go around and come back and you say "eyyy.. i want the fighter for 34.50 , i say NOOOO.. u dont get 34.50 now price gone up maybe 40. be a man".


Hence the price was raised since they didnt give discounts.

End of the story.
 
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I think we're misinterpreting the issue. It is $11 billion for 126 aircraft WITH AN OPTION TO BUY 63 MORE. So that could come to almost $20 billion if one also takes into account the additional infrastructure required.

And the French Rafale is probably going to be the clear winner as it is much cheaper than the Typhoon and a single source product unlike the Eurofighter.

You are wrong. It's the original plan with 126 planes doubled in cost.
 
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Okie since ur from mainland i will make it simple why price gone up.

We went to these fighters mall looking for some fighters like Mirages.. and all.

we saw a guy and asked 'how much"? He said 35 ..we said "how about 30"?

He then said NOOOOO... the longest No u will ever hear. He said " i cnt give 30 if i give 30... tommorow i close down!!!.

Then we said " give us a deal on the fighter man". He said "1 sec , i talk to my boss .. he came back and said " you seem like nice guy, i give u best price. 34.50 ... we said its just .50 discount..

He replied .50 is lot of money ...you save .50 here and go somewhere and save another .50 , then its 1. thennnn u take ur 1 and go to somewhere else and buy something else.

We said we dont want it and we are leaving and he then said "hey, be a man , do the right thing", maybe u dont buy the fighter right now and go around and come back and you say "eyyy.. i want the fighter for 34.50 , i say NOOOO.. u dont get 34.50 now price gone up maybe 40. be a man".


Hence the price was raised since they didnt give discounts.

End of the story.

Nice way to rationalize arse rape by claiming you enjoy it afterward.
 
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Okie since ur from mainland i will make it simple why price gone up.

We went to these fighters mall looking for some fighters like Mirages.. and all.

we saw a guy and asked 'how much"? He said 35 ..we said "how about 30"?

He then said NOOOOO... the longest No u will ever hear. He said " i cnt give 30 if i give 30... tommorow i close down!!!.

Then we said " give us a deal on the fighter man". He said "1 sec , i talk to my boss .. he came back and said " you seem like nice guy, i give u best price. 34.50 ... we said its just .50 discount..

He replied .50 is lot of money ...you save .50 here and go somewhere and save another .50 , then its 1. thennnn u take ur 1 and go to somewhere else and buy something else.

We said we dont want it and we are leaving and he then said "hey, be a man , do the right thing", maybe u dont buy the fighter right now and go around and come back and you say "eyyy.. i want the fighter for 34.50 , i say NOOOO.. u dont get 34.50 now price gone up maybe 40. be a man".


Hence the price was raised since they didnt give discounts.

End of the story.

You a RP fan too :) ???
 
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Nice way to rationalize arse rape by claiming you enjoy it afterward.

eEK.. what a dirty mind...

you been like that all along or acquired it along from the surroundings?:what:

---------- Post added at 12:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:27 AM ----------

You a RP fan too :) ???

Who is RP ?:what:
 
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MMRCA Principals Pore Over Bids



Nov 10, 2011


NEW DELHI — The cost of acquiring the winning aircraft for India’s Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) competition is no longer a secret — except to the public, for now.

With final bids in for the Dassault Rafale and Eurofighter Typhoon, the offers of both European companies were opened Nov. 4 and their contents revealed for the first time to the two European rivals, as well as the Indian government’s MMRCA program team, and three defense ministry officers who will spend the next 6-8 weeks boiling the two offers down to a common, comparable form.

Bid details are not yet public. But after the 3-hr. meeting at the Indian air force (IAF) headquarters, a ministry officer in the acquisitions office indicated that certain parameters, including the flyaway cost per aircraft, were not as disparate as might have been expected.

Officials from the two firms would not comment on the bids, though EADS Cassidian released a statement minutes after the meeting, saying: “Our offer for India’s MMRCA tender is backed by the four Eurofighter partner nations as well as their respective aerospace and defense industries. It is competitive and designed to deliver maximum value to India.”

Privately, officials at both companies said they were confident with where their bids were placed. That is not surprising, especially since the biggest factor is still an unknown: how the ministry will arrive at the ownership/life-cycle cost of both aircraft over a 40-year/6,000-hr. run — an exercise it has never attempted before. Mystery also shrouds the benchmark price, a figure that the ministry and IAF jointly formulated this year, and one to which the bid prices of the Rafale and Eurofighter will be compared with, to focus on the more competitive proposal.

“Both companies now know the unit cost of each other’s aircraft,” the ministry officer said. “That was closely held information so far. But the real calculations, which will include [the] cost of flying these aircraft over their lifetime, plus inputs from technology transfer and offsets, will provide a final picture. We have a formula and process. It will now be applied to both bids.”

Industry observers suggest that the government is now well-placed to make a decision, though others indicate that the only real political decision made in the competition so far was the elimination of the two U.S. contenders, Lockheed Martin and Boeing, in April.

“If the two final offers from Dassault and Eurofighter are roughly comparable, the government will perhaps want to leverage more strategic benefits from the potential winner,” says an adviser to the Confederation of Indian Industry, which counts among its members several firms that will be offsets partners to either Dassault or EADS Cassidian. “You couldn’t ask for two aircraft that are more comparable, or bigger rivals in the aerospace market today. It’s an opportunity for India to truly gain something here, over and above the 126 airplanes.”

The lowest bidder, and therefore the one poised to win the $10.4 billion deal, is expected to be formally announced before the new year. Price negotiations will follow with the lowest bidder, leading to contract signature by March 2012, and bringing to an end a 10-year effort by the IAF to buy a stopgap fleet to stem fighter squadron depletion.


The government has not formally announced lowest bidders in arms competitions, but it had apparently decided unofficially last year to begin the practice as an exercise in transparency. In September 2010, the government revealed that General Electric had been identified as the lowest bidder in a competition against Eurojet to power the indigenous Tejas Mk. 2.

As for the MMRCA’s final contract value, it is likely to be well more than the originally budgeted $10.4 billion. It could reach roughly double that figure, taking into account factors such as inflation, currency fluctuation adjustments and the possibility of a larger buy.


MMRCA Principals Pore Over Bids | AVIATION WEEK
 
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MMRCA Principals Pore Over Bids



Nov 10, 2011


NEW DELHI — The cost of acquiring the winning aircraft for India’s Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) competition is no longer a secret — except to the public, for now.

With final bids in for the Dassault Rafale and Eurofighter Typhoon, the offers of both European companies were opened Nov. 4 and their contents revealed for the first time to the two European rivals, as well as the Indian government’s MMRCA program team, and three defense ministry officers who will spend the next 6-8 weeks boiling the two offers down to a common, comparable form.

Bid details are not yet public. But after the 3-hr. meeting at the Indian air force (IAF) headquarters, a ministry officer in the acquisitions office indicated that certain parameters, including the flyaway cost per aircraft, were not as disparate as might have been expected.

Officials from the two firms would not comment on the bids, though EADS Cassidian released a statement minutes after the meeting, saying: “Our offer for India’s MMRCA tender is backed by the four Eurofighter partner nations as well as their respective aerospace and defense industries. It is competitive and designed to deliver maximum value to India.”

Privately, officials at both companies said they were confident with where their bids were placed. That is not surprising, especially since the biggest factor is still an unknown: how the ministry will arrive at the ownership/life-cycle cost of both aircraft over a 40-year/6,000-hr. run — an exercise it has never attempted before. Mystery also shrouds the benchmark price, a figure that the ministry and IAF jointly formulated this year, and one to which the bid prices of the Rafale and Eurofighter will be compared with, to focus on the more competitive proposal.

“Both companies now know the unit cost of each other’s aircraft,” the ministry officer said. “That was closely held information so far. But the real calculations, which will include [the] cost of flying these aircraft over their lifetime, plus inputs from technology transfer and offsets, will provide a final picture. We have a formula and process. It will now be applied to both bids.”

Industry observers suggest that the government is now well-placed to make a decision, though others indicate that the only real political decision made in the competition so far was the elimination of the two U.S. contenders, Lockheed Martin and Boeing, in April.

“If the two final offers from Dassault and Eurofighter are roughly comparable, the government will perhaps want to leverage more strategic benefits from the potential winner,” says an adviser to the Confederation of Indian Industry, which counts among its members several firms that will be offsets partners to either Dassault or EADS Cassidian. “You couldn’t ask for two aircraft that are more comparable, or bigger rivals in the aerospace market today. It’s an opportunity for India to truly gain something here, over and above the 126 airplanes.”

The lowest bidder, and therefore the one poised to win the $10.4 billion deal, is expected to be formally announced before the new year. Price negotiations will follow with the lowest bidder, leading to contract signature by March 2012, and bringing to an end a 10-year effort by the IAF to buy a stopgap fleet to stem fighter squadron depletion.


The government has not formally announced lowest bidders in arms competitions, but it had apparently decided unofficially last year to begin the practice as an exercise in transparency. In September 2010, the government revealed that General Electric had been identified as the lowest bidder in a competition against Eurojet to power the indigenous Tejas Mk. 2.

As for the MMRCA’s final contract value, it is likely to be well more than the originally budgeted $10.4 billion. It could reach roughly double that figure, taking into account factors such as inflation, currency fluctuation adjustments and the possibility of a larger buy.


MMRCA Principals Pore Over Bids | AVIATION WEEK
 
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You a RP fan too :) ???

Come on, who isn't! :D


MMRCA Principals Pore Over Bids

As expected, the EF consortium and more over the partner countries are completely desperate, to divert their orders to us, that they even take take financial loss into account. It's a simple calculation, either they pay the penality for cancelling their orders, or they find an export customer to take it over and even if they sell it at lower rates, the loss isn't as high as the penality. Not to forget that an export customer that joins as a partner would be the only possibility to divert some of the upgrade costs too, which otherwise also would have to be paid by the partners. They are ready to give anything, just to get rid of the fighter, which is actually a strange behavior, but as mentioned, that was predictable, more interesting is the French reaction now! The only pending fields are still the industrial and political sides, what are they offering there? Technically they are better for sure and even if the costs are close now, with added lifecycle costs which the EF partners can't reduce like that, the Rafale offers clear advantages. So will they provide good industrial offers as well?
 
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MMRCA Principals Pore Over Bids

Bid details are not yet public. But after the 3-hr. meeting at the Indian air force (IAF) headquarters, a ministry officer in the acquisitions office indicated that certain parameters, including the flyaway cost per aircraft, were not as disparate as might have been expected

means the price quoted is very high and their is no desperate attempt for bag the big order..
3-hr. meeting at the Indian air force (IAF) headquarters ..what for ?
just scarp the mmrca , you going to have FGFA ..
 
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I think pakistani planers do a far better job(I MEAN MAINTAINING MILITARY STATERGIC POTENCY)... with limitted funds, with limitted options, with bad corupt politicians(similar to ours)
compared to us......:pop:
 
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There r no of Manuals which followed by IAF.
Even Rus and france have guidelines to be followed. such type rule book is also given for passenger planes like Boings.

There is Flight Safety like thing which is given most priority. They check whole runway in morning so no small stone remain on runway and no. of other things.

The heles have different branch.

However the difficulty is with Mig 21. An old age man could not live more even he be given lots medicenes.
 
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No political considerations for MMRCA deal

New Delhi: Defence Minister AK Antony on Friday made it clear that there will be "no political considerations" in awarding the multi-billion dollar 126 combat aircraft deal which entered its last phase with the opening of commercial bids of two bidders.
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..."There will be no political considerations in defence procurement and that is our stand which everybody knows," he told reporters here.

The minister was asked if the Defence Ministry would take into account geo-political considerations before deciding on the winner of the mega deal.

Antony said as far as his ministry was concerned, "defence procurement is strictly professional and (based on) price. Technical evaluation is 101 per cent professional and then after that comes the price." ...

source: zeenews
 
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An article about RAFs performance in Libya, which once again shows where the weakpoints of the Eurofighter are:

Vital role for British airpower over Libya

...The Typhoon’s debut as a bomber was not without difficulty. When the Libyan operation began, the UK was the only one of the four Eurofighter partner nations to have implemented a strike capability. Eight RAF pilots had been trained to drop 2,000-pound (correction 1000 pound) Enhanced Paveway II bombs that could be guided by GPS-aided INS or laser-designated to their target by a Litening 3 pod. But their currency had lapsed due to a cut in flying training hours.

Commanders therefore decided to initially pair each single-seat Typhoon with a Tornado, crewed by two fully experienced “mud movers.” If lasing was required, Tornados sometimes did the task for the Typhoon pilot. The combination proved to be synergistic; the Typhoons provided greater situational awareness to the mixed formation thanks to their Link 16 datalink and secure voice communications. They also provided an insurance against any airborne threats, since they also carried AMRAAM and ASRAAM air-air missiles, and a greater-capability defensive aids system....

Vital role for British airpower over Libya | Aviation International News


The EF with it's latest avionics obviously has the upper hand in sensors and defensive capabilities compared to the older Tornado, but it lacks badly in any type of A2G weapons, the required fuel for long range strike roles and the share of workload between the pilot and the WSO, since the EF twins seaters will only be used for training.
So all it did was supporting the Tornado with additional intelligence and escorting them, while it's very limited strike capability was only used against less important or bigger targets, where the collateral damage of its 1000 pound LGBs were no problem anymore.
When you read the rest of the article it gets even more obvious how the Tornado outdid the Eurofighter in Libya and how the Brits praise their Tornado, which explains why they do anything now to keep it in service as long as possible, rather then replacing them with expensive new EFs.
 
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just scarp the mmrca , you going to have FGFA ..
what do you mean??? we need mmrca!!! w/o it our force levels are going to plunge! besides we are not going to have FGFA before a minimum 5 yrs(obviously will be more)...........
 
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