Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[the rafter]

Yet another confirmation news.....

Govt shortlists Eurofighter, Rafale for fighter jets: Sources

New Delhi: The Defence Ministry has shortlisted Eurofighter Typhoon and Dassault Rafale from among six competitors participating in the $10.5-billion tender to provide the Indian Air Force with Medium Multi-role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA), say sources.

The Dassault and the Eurofighter, according to sources, are the only participants asked to extend the validity of their commercial bids and have been called to the Defence Ministry on Thursday, the sources add.

Sources also say that the other competitors - Boeing F/A-18, Lockheed-Martin's F-16, UAC's MiG-35 and Saab's Gripen - haven't received a message or a letter.

The MMRCA deal is meant to provide the Indian Air Force with approximately 126 new state-of-the-art fighter aircraft.

 

[the rafter]

Sky Talk: Reports that India has dropped F-16 from fighter competition

Reports out of India today indicate that country's government has narrowed down the list of planes it is considering buying as the next next front line fighter jet and that both Lockheed Martin's F-16 and the Boeing F/A-18 Super Hornet have been eliminated from the competition.

If that is the case it could mean the days of the F-16 being produced in Fort Worth are nearing an end. Company officials said in their conference call Tuesday they only have orders booked to carry production through mid-2013.

The very good DewLine blog has more here. About the only thing official on the subject at this point is that Sweden's Saab has confirmed that it has been eliminated. But one blog reports it has confirmed that India has asked two bidders, France's Dassault and the European Eurofighter consortium to extend the terms of their bids.

Lockheed has not yet commented to the Star-Telegram. A Boeing spokesman said he had not heard anything official from his corporate ranks.

But Washington defense analyst Loren Thompson, who has many good sources in the world of defense contractors, said he has heard similar but unofficial reports.

"My understanding is the F-16 and F/A-18 have both been disqualified by India," Thompson said. "It may just be a negotiating tactic. They've (India) done stuff like this before."

India has for years been tantalizing fighter jet manufacturers with its plans to spend something on the order of $10 billion to buy 126 Medium Multi Role Combat Aircraft.

 

[SpArK]

 

[sancho]

"My understanding is the F-16 and F/A-18 have both been disqualified by India," Thompson said. "It may just be a negotiating tactic. They've (India) done stuff like this before."

India has for years been tantalizing fighter jet manufacturers with its plans to spend something on the order of $10 billion to buy 126 Medium Multi Role Combat Aircraft.

Interesting! If so, what were the reasons and why negotiating tactics? If they were disqualified, I doubt they will re-enter the tender again.

 

[the rafter]

I too don't think if they are eliminated they would be allowed to re-enter. Here's the up-date:

UPDATE: Loren Thompson of the Lexington Institute think tank and a consultant to both Boeing and Lockheed Martin says he has been told by a senior company officials that both the F/A-18 and F-16 have been dropped from consideration by India.

And here's Lockheed's not very informative but perhaps telling statement: "The US Government has informed Lockheed Martin that they have received a letter from the Indian MOD concerning the MMRCA competition. We understand that the US Government is working on a response to the letter from the Indian government. Lockheed Martin remains committed to our relationship with the Indian Air Force, Ministry of Defense and the other Services. Lockheed Martin has several world-class products offering the most advanced and reliable technology we believe is suitable for India's security needs."

http://blogs.star-telegram.com/sky_...as-dropped-f-16-from-fighter-competition.html

 

[angeldemon_007]

Despite Obama's push IAF reject F-16- TIMESNOW.tv - Latest Breaking News, Big News Stories, News Videos

 

[Jon Snow]

India says no to US fighter planes - Hindustan Times

 

[sancho]

US, Russia out of IAF MMRCA fighter deal (Video)

[video]http://ibnlive.in.com/videos/150614/us-firms-out-of-mmrca-fighter-deal.html[/video]

 

[jdme]

US rejection makes sense. We hardly have any American weapons and we are already stretched thin with way too many platforms. Dropping Russia was bad but then Russians have been extremely unreliable in last decade or so. I don't know much about EF or Rafael but looks like French might win big.

 

[luckyyy]

india had been licence menufecturing the fighter planes since 1970..

india has been in the buyer-seller relation for long..

and the Rafale won't offer anything beyond that...

next step , it's time to have equal share in the menufecturing like the way india initiating with FGFA ,

the way Eurofighter offers partnership in the project, Eurofighter should be selected...

 

[foxbat]

Is there any commonality between Mirage 2000 and Rafale from a maintenance perspective??

 

[sancho]

india had been licence menufecturing the fighter planes since 1970..

india has been in the buyer-seller relation for long..

and the Rafale won't offer anything beyond that...

next step , it's time to have equal share in the menufecturing like the way india initiating with FGFA ,

the way Eurofighter offers partnership in the project, Eurofighter should be selected...

Although it's not clear what Dassault offers to India in terms of partnerships, we do know about RBE 2 AESA on offer as a base for a co-developed AESA for Tejas, or the Kaveri - Snecma engine co-development for Tejas, AMCA and also on offer for integration into Rafale. French MBDA proposed co-developments on the weapon side and Maitri SAM seems to be the first one. Thales has JV with Samtel for Topsight I HMS and MFDs, so there is a lot that we can get from Rafale. More importantly could be a team up with Dassault for AURA UCAV, which dramatically would boost our UAV developments as well.

Is there any commonality between Mirage 2000 and Rafale from a maintenance perspective??

Yes, nearly the whole weapon package, avionics and most of the maintenance routines of Rafale are based on the Mirage as well, which makes it easier for the ground crews as well.

 

[luckyyy]

Although it's not clear what Dassault offers to India in terms of partnerships, we do know about RBE 2 AESA on offer as a base for a co-developed AESA for Tejas, or the Kaveri - Snecma engine co-development for Tejas, AMCA and also on offer for integration into Rafale. French MBDA proposed co-developments on the weapon side and Maitri SAM seems to be the first one. Thales has JV with Samtel for Topsight I HMS and MFDs, so there is a lot that we can get from Rafale. More importantly could be a team up with Dassault for AURA UCAV, which dramatically would boost our UAV developments as well.

these were the words we keep getting since many years from french...

but on ground reality it is the EADS actually working with the indians...

but in a reguler bidding Rafale has a higher chance of winning as EF is more expensive on intial cost as well as maintanence cost , adding to a higher life cycle cost....but if the cost negotiating commete takes the equity swap amount into account on partnership offer from EF ,then the EF will became the L1 bidder...

 

[Manticore]

@sancho

some questions..dont know if these questions are a bit early

have they given the date of the final announcement out of the two?
will the production lines in india be updated or their'll be partial production in both countries
whats the tentative date of actual first fighter production
whats the tentative date of actual first squadron induction
when will the training /conversion of pilots start
difference in design features that standout interms of aerodynamic performance
difference in electronic/avionics suite that stand out b/w these 2 fighters

 

[sancho]

these were the words we keep getting since many years from french...

but on ground reality it is the EADS actually working with the indians...
but in a reguler bidding Rafale has a higher chance of winning as EF is more expensive on intial cost as well as maintanence cost , adding to a higher life cycle cost....but if the cost negotiating commete takes the equity swap amount into account on partnership offer from EF ,then the EF will became the L1 bidder...

And EADS is? Exactly, half French and even the French government has shares!

@sancho

some questions..dont know if these questions are a bit early

have they given the date of the final announcement out of the two?
will the production lines in india be updated or their'll be partial production in both countries
whats the tentative date of actual first fighter production
whats the tentative date of actual first squadron induction
when will the training /conversion of pilots start
difference in design features that standout interms of aerodynamic performance
difference in electronic/avionics suite that stand out b/w these 2 fighters

Hi, there is no official statement from the GoI, or MoD AFAIK, maybe because there are still negotiations behind closed doors. There were reports that the US government will reply to the shortlisting, so who knows if that will change things again, but I am surprised that the F18SH wasn't shortlisted at least to have more options to bargain with the Europeans.
According the RFP, only 18 fighters will be delivered by the wining vendor, while the rest must be produced in India. However, it is possible that the order could be increased, which could increase the number of fighters from Europe as well.
The first squadron is said to be inducted in 2014, while licence production should start in 2015. If Rafale would win, both could start earlier, because it will be ready and available since next year and Dassault offered fast production of up to 40 fighters if we want and the training is dependent on these dates.
The design of both will remain the same, unless we don't integrate CFTs, which both have on offer. At the electronic and avionic fields things will be different, because they will have AESA, latest passive detection features and EW systems (SPECTRA is clearly in front here), HMS cleared for EF and optional for Rafale, also both are expected to get METEOR BVR missile, as well as new A2G weaponary and here the Storm Shadow / Scalp cruise missile should be the most important weapon!