Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]

[#hydra#]

I agree with all of the above but it doesn't detract from what I have said, at no point in time have those proposing more MKIs instead of the Rafale brought in the Super Sukhoi that exists purely as a paper plane today. As you have said, the Rafale has been upgraded over time, the MKI has had only marginal upgrades in the past 20 years and thus it is comparing apples and oranges where the Rafale vs MKI is concerned. Furthermore, the MKI reflects its history ie being rather outdated (not in outright specs but in areas such as usability and maintainability), whilst the rest of its contempories have full onboard diagnostic systems the MKI lags behind woefully and you have demonstrated this with the engine change/drop in/out example.


For sure. AASMs are already being proposed for the Super Sukhoi if some other elements from the Rafale are brought in the MKI is going to be areal beast going into the future.

All of a sudden mki become obsolete for some PDF members,thank god iaf is not thinking in the same way. Flanker is designed to outgun f15 eagles and eagle still the best jetfighter of USAF after raptor.

 

[Abingdonboy]

All of a sudden mki become obsolete for some PDF members,thank god iaf is not thinking in the same way. Flanker is designed to outgun f15 eagles and eagle still the best jetfighter of USAF after raptor.

The MKI is still (by some margin) the most capable fighter in that part of the world but the Rafale will displace it from that spot when it enters service.

 

[#hydra#]

The MKI is still (by some margin) the most capable fighter in that part of the world but the Rafale will displace it from that spot when it enters service.

Rafale will displace most of the stike aircraft of IAF,mki was not designed to do that job. In future war surely iaf will send first send mki to enemy airspace before rafale in for air supriority....
Iaf needs both an air superiority fighter and a multi role aircraft like rafale.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Rafale will displace most of the stike aircraft of IAF,mki was not designed to do that job. In future war surely iaf will send first send mki to enemy airspace before rafale in for air supriority....
Iaf needs both an air superiority fighter and a multi role aircraft like rafale.

I can't argue with what you are saying, it's just a good thing the IAF is getting both the MKI and Rafale

 

[Taygibay]

Range?

Yes, the range is 500 kliks more for the MKI, 1/7 more for twice the size, granted!
But that would only count on the last leg of a mission on such aircrafts ... because
they are refuellable and since your gift to Sukhoi cannot do low penetration, well ...
it won't matter in operations.

To give you a reference, Rafales made their first Libyan and Malian strikes from France.*
That's with a full load of 6 AASMs over either, and AAMs, or alternatively Scalps in Libya.
A raid by our nuke Raffys went from Istres to La Réunion, 8,800km non-stop. So 3,700km range ...
Less fuel used than MKIs too! The range is not a problem and I fit is, you should check the Tejas'.

Read you later, Tay.

* 2011 & 2013 respectively.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Yes, the range is 500 kliks more for the MKI 1/7 more for twice the size, granted!
But that would only count on the last leg of a mission on such aircrafts ... because
they are refuellable and since your gift to Sukhoi cannot do low penetration, well ...
it won't matter in operations.

No problem

and I fit is, you should check the Tejas'.

To be fair sir, no one is expecting the LCA to be engaged in deep penetration missions, it is going to be a "rear guard" with some CAS missions allocated on a need basis but for the most part it is true to being the MiG-21's replacement- nothing less, nothing really more. So it doesn't really need the "legs" like the MKI and Rafale as it will never be far from base or a "mothership":

 

[Taygibay]

30 minutes for one engine on Rafale. 1 hour in total.

Let's not get carried away! 1H30-1H45 for one engine, a full morning or afternoon for the set!
That's still very near world's best if not. Of course, some teams may go faster in specific condi-
tions and sometimes it will take longer. IIRC, the guys that changed one on the USS Truman
took 3 hours to do the job. But that was another first. With practice, it would go down!

Tay.

 

[Abingdonboy]

3 points

1. Rs 58,600 crs that's the closest rounded up figure of the deal
2. French team probable visit in 3rd or 4th week of May
3. File moved to Cabinet committee for approval.

Few more

DCNS will be given a relaxation for FDI route investment for bringing in AIP tech.. Not sure what happened to DRDO AIP ones..

Blackshark torpedo deal file dust has been cleaned and is getting ready.. Indications of Italy and marine issue solved evolving slowly by some mutual agreement. Scorpene first kalavari induction coming soon so Blackshark deal getting looked at priority.

Strategic partnership part of DPP 2016 is almost firmed up.. Will be released soon for MII part of things..

Nice update there brother- the Blackshark issue had been causing me some anxiety as the Kalaveri gets closer and closer to induction but I trusted the DM to come good on this matter. Any updates on the S-70B? Last heard LM were confident on getting the deal secured shortly but the lack of any real attention given to this critcal (and absurdly delayed) procurement is more worrying as is the fact that it is but a very limited fix with a maximum of 24 S-70Bs coming in this contract- a pitiful amount for the IN what requires 100+ of the type (10 ton ASW/utility).

 

[Abingdonboy]

@PARIKRAMA @Picdelamirand-oil @Taygibay

I heard from a friend just now that the (uprated) M88 somehow making its way onto the LCA isn't simply fanboy/forum fantasies and that this had been discussed, ca anyone confirm?

Have the F414s already been ordered for the MK.2? @Stephen Cohen @MilSpec @ni8mare @randomradio

 

[W@rwolf]

Have the F414s already been ordered for the MK.2?

This is a 2015 report-

"ADA agreed to buy eight F414 engines in 2012 for an undisclosed amount, while HAL "initialled" an agreement for 99 additional engines for around USD800 million.

The latter deal will be signed once the LCA Mk 2 programme is advanced. It envisions the initial import of a limited number of engines, with the remainder being delivered in kit form for assembly by HAL in Bangalore."

http://www.janes.com/article/52873/india-expects-first-engines-for-tejas-mk-2-to-arrive-by-year-end

 

[Abingdonboy]

This is a 2015 report-

"ADA agreed to buy eight F414 engines in 2012 for an undisclosed amount, while HAL "initialled" an agreement for 99 additional engines for around USD800 million.

The latter deal will be signed once the LCA Mk 2 programme is advanced. It envisions the initial import of a limited number of engines, with the remainder being delivered in kit form for assembly by HAL in Bangalore."

http://www.janes.com/article/52873/india-expects-first-engines-for-tejas-mk-2-to-arrive-by-year-end

Thanks for the info brother, very interesting indeed so there is the scope for other options to be looked at now the picture has changed considerably....

 

[SR-91]

I can't argue with what you are saying, it's just a good thing the IAF is getting both the MKI and Rafale

Next decade will be extremely exciting for Indian military forces and for India in general.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Next decade will be extremely exciting for Indian military forces and for India in general.

Agreed, from 2022 onwards will be a good time to be Indian (not that it isn't already )



+ that doesn't have anything to do with the Rafale at all

 

[SR-91]

@PARIKRAMA @Picdelamirand-oil @Taygibay

I heard from a friend just now that the (uprated) M88 somehow making its way onto the LCA isn't simply fanboy/forum fantasies and that this had been discussed, ca anyone confirm?

Have the F414s already been ordered for the MK.2? @Stephen Cohen @MilSpec @ni8mare @randomradio

There was some news last year that eight if GE F414 engines will arrive in India by the end of 2015. But these eight were supposed to be for MK2 LCA. There is a initial agreement for 99 more engines but I don't think it has been signed yet.

 

[sathya]

@PARIKRAMA @Picdelamirand-oil @Taygibay

I heard from a friend just now that the (uprated) M88 somehow making its way onto the LCA isn't simply fanboy/forum fantasies and that this had been discussed, ca anyone confirm?

Have the F414s already been ordered for the MK.2? @Stephen Cohen @MilSpec @ni8mare @randomradio

Specs comparison of GE404in20 & M88 * Eco demonstrator


http://www.geaviation.com/engines/docs/military/datasheet-F404-Family.pdf


http://www.snecma.com/file/download/fiche_m88_2011_ang_hd.pdf

----------------------------------------------------------

GE F404in20 ( 19000lbs ) < ECO demo (20250lbs ) < F414INS6 ( 22000) < F414EPE (26000)

Only wet thrust info was available in GE website.

Other physical specs please check above link