Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]

[BON PLAN]

F-35 is a serious threat, stealthy and situational awareness capability is very well. But maneuverability is just so so. Actually I do believe maneuverability is not as important in BVR anymore.

So Why F22 was made highly manoeuvrable?
Why USAF choose F22 against F23 when F23 was better in supercruise and stealth but just slighly inferior in agility?
So Why F35 and F22 carry short range missile and internal canon (F22 case)?

In a high density conflict, the electronic environnement will be so hard, the number of plane in the air too important that it will be quite impossible to fire in BVR with a high pk and a low probability of friend fire : WVR will came back. Not with canon, but with 20 to 30km range missile. Why? To be sure to positively recognise the target before firing.

 

[BON PLAN]

how good the f16 is can be gauged by the fact that UAE didnt opt for rafale or typhoon and are very much content with their b60s

not really....
They sent Mirage 2000-9 against Lybia in 2011, not the so called fabulous F16-60.....

 

[BON PLAN]

"IAF pilots have a morbid joke among themselves that the Jaguar’s current engines are so underpowered that in case of one engine failing, the second takes the aircraft to the crash site, not back to safety".

https://theprint.in/defence/iaf-set...ade-could-buy-more-su-30-mkis-instead/278687/

It's possible.
The french Jaguar, with the 2 engine ON, needed regularly to add some reheat to regain speed with only 2 external tanks. On the sole dry thrust, it can't maintain it's energy. So with one engine OFF....

 

[BON PLAN]

F16 V outclasses rafale any day, the same is true for meteor against aim120D & PL15... albeit AMRAAMS have simply outmatched track record
now can PAG get it or does PAF wants it is a separate question

LOL. big big LOL.

Rafale eat every F16. During the multi years different training sessions against F16, F15, F22, EF2000, SH18, Gripen, the sole hard nut for Rafale is F22. F16 is the second one, but not a match.

Sorry for you.

 

[vi-va]

So Why F22 was made highly manoeuvrable?
Why USAF choose F22 against F23 when F23 was better in supercruise and stealth but just slighly inferior in agility?
So Why F35 and F22 carry short range missile and internal canon (F22 case)?

In a high density conflict, the electronic environnement will be so hard, the number of plane in the air too important that it will be quite impossible to fire in BVR with a high pk and a low probability of friend fire : WVR will came back. Not with canon, but with 20 to 30km range missile. Why? To be sure to positively recognise the target before firing.

Time changed. In F22 design era 1980s(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-22_Raptor#Origins) , the Infrared Detector + Radar + AAM is not as powerful as today.

Nowadays, Radar can found none stealthy jet from 500 km away. Infrared Detector can found stealthy jet from 70km away. There is little to none chance of dog fight.

J-20 does NOT has Rotary Cannon, is it backward? Not at all. Time changed.

 

[MirageBlue]

The problem with moveable canards is that they'll move at angles that'll be not in the same plane as the rest of the airplane's wing surfaces. So, as the J-20 will maneuver and use it's canards to maneuver, the canards will act as large radar reflecting surfaces. Even if RAM treatment is applied to those canards, it is a FACT that canards are not a good idea if you want F-35 or F-22 level stealth.

 

[MirageBlue]

LOL Indians are so frustrated because their $300 million / airframe Rafales become worthless junk already

talk about rubbish, worthless drivel. And some people wonder why this forum has SO MANY totally rubbish posts versus useful, sensible posts.

 

[BON PLAN]

The problem with moveable canards is that they'll move at angles that'll be not in the same plane as the rest of the airplane's wing surfaces. So, as the J-20 will maneuver and use it's canards to maneuver, the canards will act as large radar reflecting surfaces. Even if RAM treatment is applied to those canards, it is a FACT that canards are not a good idea if you want F-35 or F-22 level stealth.

It's not the canard which is the problem. It is the problem with all small movable surface.

Increase the canard so as to match the tail of the F35 and you will have the same result.

 

[BON PLAN]

LOL Indians are so frustrated because their $300 million / airframe Rafales become worthless junk already

It is so strange to see chinese air force acquiring more and more non stealthy J10 .....

Remember me how many J20 are in the PL air force?

Remember me how many J31 are inducted?

 

[ziaulislam]

not really....
They sent Mirage 2000-9 against Lybia in 2011, not the so called fabulous F16-60.....

ofcourse mirages are better suited agaist ground targets with guided weapons...ask what would they send against an adversary like Pakistan

 

[ziaulislam]

LOL. big big LOL.

Rafale eat every F16. During the multi years different training sessions against F16, F15, F22, EF2000, SH18, Gripen, the sole hard nut for Rafale is F22. F16 is the second one, but not a match.

Sorry for you.

yeah right..i also eat grass..what kind of BS is this
american were building AESA & fielding it on F16 when french had no idea what it is

 

[ziaulislam]

we saw first handed how upgrades mirages bugged out in feb 2019 due to "glitches" & being "outnumbered"..
i never believed that french equipment will be jammed but it happened and everyone saw it

 

[Feng Leng]

It is so strange to see chinese air force acquiring more and more non stealthy J10 .....

Remember me how many J20 are in the PL air force?

Remember me how many J31 are inducted?

Stealth fighters are very expensive and can't carry much payload. We don't need J-20 for an opponent like India. Of course we will continue to buy J-10C for the performance value and continue to buy J-16 for its payload.

There are less than 100 J-20s in the PLAAF. But now J-10B are being mass produced so this number is rising fast. https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...r-may-arrive-soon-heres-what-it-could-include

There is no such nothing as J-31. There was an export oriented prototype called FC-31 that now has become the basis for the stealth carrier borne fighter jet.

 

[BON PLAN]

ofcourse mirages are better suited agaist ground targets with guided weapons...ask what would they send against an adversary like Pakistan

No. It's not a substantiated answer.
F16 are fully air to ground equipped. In UAE the two fleets can perform AtoA and AtoG tasks, but M2000 is faster and can clim higher than F16, so AtoA is mainly for M2000 and AtoG or A to sea missions mainly for F16.

 

[BON PLAN]

yeah right..i also eat grass..what kind of BS is this
american were building AESA & fielding it on F16 when french had no idea what it is

Japan was the first country to serial equip a fighter with AESA.
Then USA
Then France. Not to bad for a country with 1/7 o the USA GDP ! And We earn a lot of experience with the PESA RBE2. So our AESA has more than 20 years of practice, data base and fine tuning behind it.

It change nothing to the fact that F16 was a very nice plane, but a 70's plane. It is without a doubt smashed by the Rafale, even if it is difficult to accept from an average american.